Immaculate Conception Rule/Law

HGK420 said:

I think abes account has been compromised ^

What meeting on tuesday?

Click to expand...

Yeah I think three ppl have been posting from my account. The bad me, the good me and the apathetic me! gonna throw em all in the grinder together and make a salad joint.

https://www.rollitup.org/michigan-patients/690413-meeting-lansing.html

woodsmantoker said:

So I sign up as a caregiver because my wife has cancer. Not a one of us knows a thing about cannabis. "Well hun your doc says you can use cannabis, the state says I can give it to you and grow it for you and store it for you so you have nothing to worry about." "Ok dear thats great, now where in the dickins are you gunna find those maryjuwanna beans?" "Eh, your the patient, you figure it out. Greg said it aint hard to figure!" Greg my brother, I am just not sure about that friend..?

Click to expand...

The patient's designated caregiver can find the source. It is, however not legal for the source to xfer it to anyone but a patient who has designated them as a cg. If you have no creative way to initially obtain and insist on a clearly legal method, what I offer is an option.

woodsmantoker said:

Ok buddy, Greg lets play a game. Your the patient, I am the seed. Your in Michigan and I am not. Where and how are you getting me or my kid (the clone) "Legally" without anyone commiting a crime? If your responce is "from another patient", give up, you loose, thats illegal. If your responce is another caregiver, give up you loose, the only transfers legal are those between you and YOUR caregiver the guy without the seeds, the clone, or the buds, who is waiting on you to provide them to him legally so he can then provide them to you legally... GO!

Click to expand...

It is no secret that I advocate section 8 as an option to just about any medical use of mj. With that in mind, the contract that is posted in this forum (https://www.rollitup.org/michigan-patients/646322-section-8-protection-17.html#post9319532) is an option. I hope to develop this further with smart and talented people.

HGK420 said:

how many coins we talkin bout woodsman and for what? lawyers?

Quantify what the coin is needed for and maybe we can get a fund raiser going. id go ring a bell!

Click to expand...

BOLSTER COURT SUPPORT. lawyers are ineffective.. we'd rather counsel court appointed ones. please... check out THS-mi.org

http://ths-mi.org/

The Human Solution is a non-profit grass roots organization. We are a diverse group of concerned citizens united in common goals of ending prohibition, educating the community, and supporting those affected by the War on Drugs.

*
TomCJ - the small green lapel ribbon is a good idea. Showing up for any and all mmj cases is an even better one!
Is it possible for a judge to ever overtly object to a courtroom w 24 mmj advocates wearing them... and ask for the grn ribbons to be removed? are team flags ok if it's subtle? hope that's not too odd of a question.

the overwhelming support, whether it be letters, or literally being in court wearing a ribbon has been attributed to dismissals around the country. is it possible to overtly object? probably.. but that is why we silently wear the ribbons..maybe show dumbfounded looks, but hard not too. being respectful in court, looking nice, but having the ribbon, bracelets , and buttons "stop arresting patients" is subtle enough and it's noticed.-its funny too cuz... we get attention from others.. lawyers, defendants, etc. and we hand out the fliers give them information..

when you have a group of 20 watching a lawyer do their job, they end of trying little harder... or.. be less of dicks..

i watched 2 lawyers quit because they wouldn't write section 8 motions for Oakland county... so i drove down to help the, write it...

we need people. 100 people at every court date. 50 even... some rooms cant fit that many (which is better) we need people outside away from the place doing jurry nullification, lol

point is bring the rally to the court room

I have no doubt this type of support at a court venue makes a dramatic difference, as I've witnessed it. Yes, that look too... making occasional eye contact with each jury member... holding them accountable to protect our people. I could go on about how powerful this experience can be for anyone involved but you must experience it to really know. I'm completely down with this! You're onto something TCJ. I truly hope that many many more begin to catch-on and show up to hearings..., Anon but green ribbon identified and unified.

This is one of those points in the law that are unclear. It is expected that plants will appear but there is no specific legal way to do it specified in the act. The result is someone gives them to you and everyone keeps quiet about it.

After much thought over the months, I can really only find one way to make it happen and keep within the law.

A patient signs up with a caregiver but keeps possession of their plants. The designated caregiver can then transfer clones from the place of birth to the final home (the patient). While the plants are growing, the caregiver can also transfer cannabis to the patient to meet their needs. A caregiver can have 12 plants per patient, but the plants are not 'owned' by the individual patient, it is a garden whose size is dictated by the number of patients the caregiver services. Use the cannabis from that garden to supply the patient, and the clones can come from there as well. You clearly under the new law are allowed to transfer clones to their final location so long as only the clones and the caregiver are in the vehicle.

That is my best non-legal advice on how to get clones and plants. I don't see holes in it, some of you might, but I think using that scheme would give you a fighting chance with the jury if it came to that, though I think it would be protected under section 4 with the current law.

Dr. Bob

IMO the med weight limit and plant count referenced in the law per card holder are what they can legally carry and transfer on the streets. One could take this argument further and assume that these "limits" are specifically noted to allow public P2C and C2C transfers, as (12) plants and 2.5 ounces of meds have no reasonable correlation in a grow room or physical reality. Of course, I'm no lawyer and have a habit of framing things within reality rather than listen to a bunch of fools parsing words at $200 plus per hour with a political agenda

whew, finally I got a professional opinion of a real lawyer. shittin my pants till bobby clears it up! thanks bob.

Cory and trevor said:

whew, finally I got a professional opinion of a real lawyer. shittin my pants till bobby clears it up! thanks bob.

Click to expand...

Well glad that the input of someone that actually spends time thinking these things through rather than spouts off nonsense helped you.

Dr. Bob

Hmmm I would not consider my comments "spouts of nonsense", but rather contextual common sense. When folks are collecting $200+ per hour and viewed as "spends time thinking things through" as they actually argue in the political games we face today, we have serious problems. Most Americans cannot afford the justice you opine my friend and others are offended by your views as you look and speak down to us.

If you do not share my view of the dangers presented by our legal community and forced upon society at HUGE costs, can I suggest a trip down to your local Family Court to listen to some heartbreaking Child Protective Services cases. I ask you to take the context of these children's suffering to heart, count the lawyers present (billable hours charged to the state) for every adult and child present and then with integrity and ethics justify the outcomes ...

Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. Integrity has NOTHING to do with the legal council you and others can afford period.

Bob, you lost me at "a patient signs up with a care giver and keeps their". "The care giver can transfer from place of birth"? The concern here is very specific. Its regarding the FIRST transaction. No one that I am aware of is addressing it in court and appears to me to be the missing link...

TheMan13 said:

Hmmm I would not consider my comments "spouts of nonsense", but rather contextual common sense. When folks are collecting $200+ per hour and viewed as "spends time thinking things through" as they actually argue in the political games we face today, we have serious problems. Most Americans cannot afford the justice you opine my friend and others are offended by your views as you look and speak down to us.

If you do not share my view of the dangers presented by our legal community and forced upon society at HUGE costs, can I suggest a trip down to your local Family Court to listen to some heartbreaking Child Protective Services cases. I ask you to take the context of these children's suffering to heart, count the lawyers present (billable hours charged to the state) for every adult and child present and then with integrity and ethics justify the outcomes ...

Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. Integrity has NOTHING to do with the legal council you and others can afford period.

Click to expand...

Excuse me, but I simply put up a reasonable way to get plants to patients that wished to grow. I don't appreciate the smart ass reply I got, so I basically shoo'ed him away with the comment rather than just calling him an ass. Or would you rather I just called him an ass? As for talking down to you, show me in the original post where I was talking down to anyone. Or would you rather simply say I put up some useful, thought out information and some jerk decided to be a jack ass with a comment about me being a lawyer?

Hope you don't consider that talking down to you, I am just responding to what you posted.

Dr. Bob

PS, sorry you are offended that I can get legal counsel. But it doesn't change the comments and thoughts I put out, nor does it make them wrong. If you have an issue with something I put out on a factual basis, have at it and maybe I'll learn something or you will. Otherwise, leave my personality or ability to hire an attorney out of it, as it has nothing to do with the discussion.

woodsmantoker said:

Bob, you lost me at "a patient signs up with a care giver and keeps their". "The care giver can transfer from place of birth"? The concern here is very specific. Its regarding the FIRST transaction. No one that I am aware of is addressing it in court and appears to me to be the missing link...

Click to expand...

The first transfer apparently was an act of God back in 2009.

I was referring to trying to get clones for example to a patient that wished to grow and needed genetics.

A patient gets a caregiver but retains their plant rights. Once the registry connection is made between patient and caregiver, the caregiver can transfer marijuana to the patient for compensation. They can also take a cutting of one of their own (the caregiver) plants and transport it to the patient, who is allowed to possess it. The law is very specific that it allows plants to be moved from where they are created to where they will grow. The caregiver should be able to take a clone and give it to their patient that is allowed to possess the plant.

Check with a lawyer, but I don't see where the problem would be.

Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob said:

Excuse me, but I simply put up a reasonable way to get plants to patients that wished to grow. I don't appreciate the smart ass reply I got, so I basically shoo'ed him away with the comment rather than just calling him an ass. Or would you rather I just called him an ass? As for talking down to you, show me in the original post where I was talking down to anyone. Or would you rather simply say I put up some useful, thought out information and some jerk decided to be a jack ass with a comment about me being a lawyer?

Hope you don't consider that talking down to you, I am just responding to what you posted.

Dr. Bob

PS, sorry you are offended that I can get legal counsel. But it doesn't change the comments and thoughts I put out, nor does it make them wrong. If you have an issue with something I put out on a factual basis, have at it and maybe I'll learn something or you will. Otherwise, leave my personality or ability to hire an attorney out of it, as it has nothing to do with the discussion.

Click to expand...

Dude if you cannot see that ivory tower that you and everyone you know are standing on ...

Even among your "professional" crowd spending thousands to retain and utilize legal council not only in defense, but offence, I ask you this? Does The Green Market in Lansing and The OM in Ann Arbor both operate under the guidance of legal council? How are they so distinctly different from one other, not to even consider the legal council you have chosen to purchase?

TheMan13 said:

Dude if you cannot see that ivory tower that you and everyone you know are standing on ...

Even among your "professional" crowd spending thousands to retain and utilize legal council not only in defense, but offence, I ask you this? Does The Green Market in Lansing and The OM in Ann Arbor both operate under the guidance of legal council? How are they so distinctly different from one other, not to even consider the legal council you have chosen to purchase?

Click to expand...

Don't confuse lucky with right.

You angry at me because they are getting away with something in your mind? What does that have to do with me or a caregiver transferring a clone to their registered patient as I discussed.

I'm not going to defend the fact I have access to lawyers, or have guilt that you do not. My suggestions have been to keep things safe, and I think things carefully through before I suggest solutions as I did. I don't worry or feel guilt about telling someone they are being an ass for their uncalled for comments, either on their own account or one of the several they set up to post harassing comments about me before.

Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob said:

The first transfer apparently was an act of God back in 2009.

I was referring to trying to get clones for example to a patient that wished to grow and needed genetics.

A patient gets a caregiver but retains their plant rights. Once the registry connection is made between patient and caregiver, the caregiver can transfer marijuana to the patient for compensation. They can also take a cutting of one of their own (the caregiver) plants and transport it to the patient, who is allowed to possess it. The law is very specific that it allows plants to be moved from where they are created to where they will grow. The caregiver should be able to take a clone and give it to their patient that is allowed to possess the plant.

Check with a lawyer, but I don't see where the problem would be.

Dr. Bob

Click to expand...

Yeah.... You're a genius... You found a legal loop hole that actually works for us...

Get real! You really think sick people need to jump through hoops like this, if and only if they are lucky enough to actually know a trust worthy caregiver to sign them up with the state, and for that caregiver to be willing to do so without the rights to grow that patients plants???

Shouldn't sick, suffering, disabled Americans have the right to get easy safe access to the medicine they need?

Huel Perkins said:

Yeah.... You're a genius... You found a legal loop hole that actually works for us...

Get real! You really think sick people need to jump through hoops like this, if and only if they are lucky enough to actually know a trust worthy caregiver to sign them up with the state, and for that caregiver to be willing to do so without the rights to grow that patients plants???

Shouldn't sick, suffering, disabled Americans have the right to get easy safe access to the medicine they need?

Click to expand...

Again, direct your anger where it belongs. I didn't make the rules, I don't deal with 'what should be's'. My personal opinion is to put it in the water supply, I think everyone would be better off. Take the suggestion, or don't, there it is.

Dr. Bob

PS- 'right to grow a patient's plants', for WHAT PURPOSE if not to supply the patient? I know many caregivers that are interested in helping patients learn to grow for themselves. I am not concerned with those that want patient plants to sell 'overages' and make an illegal buck.

My anger is directed exactly where it belongs. Sorry if my previous post somehow threatens you, seems odd that it would. Thanks like usual for side stepping my questions...