IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
part time grower326 said:
I just dont know what kind of wattage i would need in that size cabinet
Click to expand...
If you buy high-efficiency LED like A51, Hans or those Cree screw-ins, you need between 20-25w/sq. ft. For example, RW75 is rated for 1.6x1.6' in flower, which is 22.5w sq/ft. (I doubt Cree screw-ins are as efficient as what RW75 uses, but with the screw ins you get get the benefit of spreading the light out. Captainmorgan was at about 22.5w.

If you buy a Chinese import like what you linked to at Amazon, you need about 35w/sq. ft. People in tall tents (growing tall plants) go as high as 50w/sq. ft.

Rebranded Chinese lights (like Blackstar) are essentially the same thing.

I wouldn't sweat it. Pick something and get going. You can supplement with screw-ins if you go too low.
 
H

holistah

Active Member
Hey guys. Looking to go LED. I want cheap but decent. A lot of people say the chinese ebay ones suck, well what are the best bang for my buck right now? Thanks
 
Pumert

Pumert

Well-Known Member
Please help me, long story short I am switching to LED's mostly because of temp issues. I have seemingly narrowed it down to two comparable lights, my first instinct led me to http://m.maxgrowlights.com/app/shopping-cart/2682202/55/?item_id=29813 which is a lot of money however in June 2014 it was claimed to be the strongest LED on the market according to the San Francisco medical cannabis cup. It covers a 4x4 and runs on 250 watts! That is less energy than my 8tubex4foot t5 veg setup! Plus the spectrum is all white! From my understanding the white spectrum has been the talk of the town in this New generation of LED's, but I hear every manufacturer has a different white:/ lastly my slightly cheaper option would be http://intelligentgro.com/opencart/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=62 initially it is cheaper however at 540 watts my electricity bill for lighting alone would more than double, plus the blue red spectrum is kind of lame now right? Like isn't it missing a piece of the complete spectrum? But the climate controller seems to be the interesting piece to this setup that has me interested, also a Few hundred dollars cheaper, please help me decide or send me down a different road if I'm looking at the wrong 4x4 led setups, lastly I don't have the time to learn a DIY, for personal reasons time is of the essence
 
vladimiroslav

vladimiroslav

Well-Known Member
In short, not all leds are equal... if you really want explanations you'll have to read back some of the pages of this thread.
And if I was you, for a 4x4, I'd chose either Apache Tech 600 for a single light or 4x A51 (RW or XGS) for multiple lights. And none of the exemples you posted, no Maxgrowlight, no Intelligentgro...

"It covers a 4x4 and runs on 250 watts!"
Im not sure any light on the market can efficiently cover a 4x4 with only 250 watts at this moment...
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Here is the maxgrowlight's PAR chart...
111111.jpg
Can barley cover a 2x2. For 250w...that is what I would expect. But when you are claiming 1200w equivalent what a joke.
They sent me pics of a full hps room, with their light hung in the middle over one plant...the hps could handle the room by themselves...I hope no one waste their money and time on these guys light.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
vladimiroslav said:
]
"It covers a 4x4 and runs on 250 watts!"
Im not sure any light on the market can efficiently cover a 4x4 with only 250 watts at this moment...
Click to expand...
I'd agree. Most LED light units rated around 240watts only equate to ~140true-watts or ~60% efficiency. There are few exceptions in regards to power efficiency but those exceptions are pricey and could rationally be substituted for cheaper ones. An LED unit, such as a BlackStar, covers around 1ft^2 or 1'x1' effectively. The downside to the cheaper models is a weaker canopy penetration. Higher scale models, such as the A51 models, are known as having more expensive LED chips included, as well as hardware, thus allowing for a stronger force of light.

In short, LED's have been known to be short in the spread of light. If it weren't for this, many people wouldn't have a reason other than preference to use the other methods such as CFL or HID (Excluding the price factor). Newer LED models are combating this issue by upgrading the available technology and using different angled lenses and other sorts.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
Here is the maxgrowlight's PAR chart...
View attachment 3260633
Can barley cover a 2x2. For 250w...that is what I would expect. But when you are claiming 1200w equivalent what a joke.
They sent me pics of a full hps room, with their light hung in the middle over one plant...the hps could handle the room by themselves...I hope no one waste their money and time on these guys light.
Click to expand...
Lol..............anyways was wondering if you ever posted your readings from the BMLspydr 1000 GG?

Thanks brother and be safe..
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
Lol..............anyways was wondering if you ever posted your readings from the BMLspydr 1000 GG?

Thanks brother and be safe..
Click to expand...
I didn't take any official readings. Just had a meter and did some guesstimated 18-20" readings. Wasn't the most intense, but was even. Don't even remember well enough so I won't say a umol number.

The thing that I defiantly remember is how hot the fixture was. Too hot IMO.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
part time grower326 said:
Would a blackstar 135 be too small for roughly 19x25 and 35" tall?
Click to expand...
19x25 is 3.3 sq. ft. With high efficiency LEDs like A51 or Hans, you'd need about 74 watts. With Chinese imports like TopLED or Vipar (or rebranded imports like Blackstar) you'd need 115-120. The 135 UFO is only 85w. You'd need 2-3 of those Cree A19 9.5w lightbulbs to supplement. I think you said you already did CFL, so you should have the components to do the light bulbs.

Just pick something and do it. Analysis paralysis. Either do it right with a Hans panel, or just flip a coin for any of the Chinese imports. Pay more for onshore support for Blackstar if it makes you more comfortable to deal with a brick-and-mortar store (Gotham hydro). Go Vipar if you're not afraid of eBay's less-than guaranteed buyer protection. TopLED has a public support forum which gives you some community backing in the event of a problem.

Whatever you do you're going to wish you did something else.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
It's pretty much a shit show trying to do watt/sq ft when using mass produced Chinese panels. We don't know the bins! And the factories will use whatever generic encapsulated leds the industry dumps on them for cheap that month; efficiencies in the teens or worse. Think about that for a second......you may literally have to DOUBLE up your generic led wattage draw to maybe equal hid performance.

Save your money for known bin/generally efficient led panels(Hans/a51/apache) or DIY top bin cobs for the ultimate efficiency atm or stick with hps/cmh(still very good #s for watt consumed)

Yes you may see some good grows using blackstars/vipars/topled/etc.but that comes down to genetics(would be even better under more efficient lighting) and are probably using brand new panels. Generic blue leds getting pushed hard will depreciate faster than any conventional lighting; could be at half output in less than 10 months or burned out as we see in here quite often....in comparison, my last grow with the original Hans panel(2011), still hit over 1gpw(barely though:-)) after more than 2 and half years of use...

again don't flip a coin, Save your money for something better that will last you and not end up in the trash.

Rant over ;-)
 
part time grower326

part time grower326

Well-Known Member
Sounds like im not going to have any luck,i live in a state where its not exactly legal so i want to stay on the cheaper side atleast for now where theres a higher risk,i can get 400w marsII for under 200 or vipar or blackstar or a no name generic panel or apollo horticulture 192w purple sun COB.guess ill just put them in a hat and pick one and get it over.i have 2 18" t8 fixtures that i will either use as side lighting or just stick on top.thanks everyone for the advice,i should have a new journal started in a month or so after i get lights and seeds.
 
Last edited:
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
It's pretty much a shit show trying to do watt/sq ft when using mass produced Chinese panels. We don't know the bins! And the factories will use whatever generic encapsulated leds the industry dumps on them for cheap that month; efficiencies in the teens or worse. Think about that for a second......you may literally have to DOUBLE up your generic led wattage draw to maybe equal hid performance.

Save your money for known bin/generally efficient led panels(Hans/a51/apache) or DIY top bin cobs for the ultimate efficiency atm or stick with hps/cmh(still very good #s for watt consumed)

Yes you may see some good grows using blackstars/vipars/topled/etc.but that comes down to genetics(would be even better under more efficient lighting) and are probably using brand new panels. Generic blue leds getting pushed hard will depreciate faster than any conventional lighting; could be at half output in less than 10 months or burned out as we see in here quite often....in comparison, my last grow with the original Hans panel(2011), still hit over 1gpw(barely though:-)) after more than 2 and half years of use...

again don't flip a coin, Save your money for something better that will last you and not end up in the trash.

Rant over ;-)
Click to expand...
Agreed, when I was trying those LG/Top LED reflector panels for flowering I ran about 27W/sq/ft first round, so thought Ok, throw more raw power at it. Increased it to 37.5W/sq./ft and produced essentially the same. Could you produce more at say 50w/sq./ft? Maybe, but would it increase yields significantly, NOT. Inefficiency is inefficiency, no matter how many raw watts you throw at it. Save your money and buy something proven to produce, or use hps or LED bulbs until you can afford to buy or build a quality/efficient panel.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
part time grower326 said:
i can get 400w marsII for under 200 or vipar or blackstar or a no name generic panel or apollo horticulture 192w purple sun COB.
Click to expand...
Remember, your vertical space is limited. A 5w MarsII could be too strong. (The 3w Mars I, now called "old model" wouldn't. It's the same spectrum.). Same concern for those concentrated, large reflector "purple sun" things.

I'd stay on the softer/diffused side unless I could find someone who used such light in such space.
 
Last edited:
part time grower326

part time grower326

Well-Known Member
Looks like im going to be ordering an apollo horticulture 180w ufo,109w draw for just over $100 so i can add another one if i need it or if its a total waste then ill only be out $110.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
part time grower326 said:
Looks like im going to be ordering an apollo horticulture 180w ufo,109w draw for just over $100 so i can add another one if i need it or if its a total waste then ill only be out $110.
Click to expand...
I think that's as good a choice as any (of the Chinese imports, if you're not willing to do Hans or DIY with higher-efficiency Cree chips). Use your existing CFL hardware to add 2 of those Cree home depot bulbs in flower. I don't think you'd need two of these UFOs. That would be 66w/sq.ft. That sounds over the top. Whites (cree lightbulbs) would improve any deficiencies in those unknown-quality Chinese LEDs more than doubling the Chinese.

Like you said, it's not a lot to risk (if you're not willing to spend more right now). It will be a good learning experience. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised (with your expectations set realistically for what you're buying). Have fun and be ready to get hooked on LEDs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top