I Hope Obama Doesn't Cave On Taxes.

mame said:

I agree 100%, let me ask you a couple questions if you dont mind... see if I can zero in on your thinking: Are you a proponent of Austerity NOW or are do you favor a more long term approach? If Austerity is a long term problem to you, than are you opposed to infrastructure stimulus spending in the short term to deal with unemployment? And if Austerity is an immediate problem in your eyes, aren't you worried about the effects of spending cuts on the already fragile recovery, specifically the prospect of even more increased joblessness?

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because of the recession, i think we should be investing in vital programs that will help get more jobs right now. i think we should keep entitlement programs, but find ways to save money in doing so. we should be investing in building bridges and fixing our roadway problems. we should be thinking of newer and more efficient ways of doing things. i think by doing these things, we would get a jump start in job creation. a guy thinks of an idea, then they get together with more people and make a plan. then we hire people to build it. also, the companies involved in making the materials would benefit. i think these would be a lot better than giving it to the koch brothers. idk if that answers your questions lol

also i think we should put a tariff on items made outside of the US. make it so that stuff is more expensive than american made. this creates demand for american made things, which then leads to companies and factories being made here to make those products. sure, the products are going to be more expensive than cheap shit made in china. but at least we know its not made out of poisonous materials, the workers who made it were treated/paid fairly, and the money stays in OUR economy.
the reason the stuff is cheap in china is because they pay the workers like shit, and the government controls the economy with an iron fist. how can we beat that? force china to treat their people fairly? ignite a workers revolution maybe(higher pay for them makes it easier for US companies to make products here)? or refuse to buy their products until certain humanitarian demands are met?

Luger187 said:

because of the recession, i think we should be investing in vital programs that will help get more jobs right now. i think we should keep entitlement programs, but find ways to save money in doing so. we should be investing in building bridges and fixing our roadway problems. we should be thinking of newer and more efficient ways of doing things. i think by doing these things, we would get a jump start in job creation. a guy thinks of an idea, then they get together with more people and make a plan. then we hire people to build it. also, the companies involved in making the materials would benefit. i think these would be a lot better than giving it to the koch brothers. idk if that answers your questions lol

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I agree. I think it makes absolutely no sense to cut government spending right NOW it's just going to make things worse.

also i think we should put a tariff on items made outside of the US. make it so that stuff is more expensive than american made. this creates demand for american made things, which then leads to companies and factories being made here to make those products. sure, the products are going to be more expensive than cheap shit made in china. but at least we know its not made out of poisonous materials, the workers who made it were treated/paid fairly, and the money stays in OUR economy.
the reason the stuff is cheap in china is because they pay the workers like shit, and the government controls the economy with an iron fist. how can we beat that? force china to treat their people fairly? ignite a workers revolution maybe(higher pay for them makes it easier for US companies to make products here)? or refuse to buy their products until certain humanitarian demands are met?

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Tariffs are something I'm still on the fence about... being a net exporter should be a big goal IMO. As it is, our economy is almost as dependant on China's as China is on ours... I kind of like the model(India right?) where they build up their homegrown industry up first by effectively sheltering them from the global market and then once that industry is strong enough shit opens up and they allow imported goods to compete. I haven't really gotten to global economics as much as I'd like to though, so as I said I'm still on the fence... I'm interested in what works, if that includes a dose of protectionism and the benefits outweigh the costs than that is what I am interested in pursuing. I will say however, that free trade with China feels like a drag on the middle class... Not only in terms of wages and jobs but in terms of class mobility as well and it doesn't really feel particuarly satisfying knowing that most things with a "made in China" label were made by people being paid what most of us would consider near slave wages.

redivider said:

actually, when the wealth of a nation is more evenly spread out life is totally better.

but you don't believe the truth.

our nation was doing better when more people had more disposable income, which creates demand.

you want to blame the government at all costs.

not the tyrannical rich who will do ANYTHING, including kicking people to the curb, to keep their wealth....

how's that for a dose of reality for ya....

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so we should pay more people not to work?

Luger187 said:

why do you agree with GIVING money to very rich people? they dont need the money, they have plenty of their own. paying a few percent more in taxes isnt going to make them sell their mansions and fire all their employees. they dont create all the jobs, smaller businesses do. also the very rich spend the money on themselves

lets say we taxed a billionaire ten thousand bucks. is he going to miss it? no. BUT, how many poor people could that money feed? how many lives could be affected in a positive way? and thats just ten thousand bucks

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they EARNED their money you nitwit.

what makes you think these tax hikes are gonna hit the rich? add up the numbers bud. the well has run dry. there arent enough rich to pay for, now hold on to your hat cuz this is gonna be painful for ya.....THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT.

mame said:

I agree. I think it makes absolutely no sense to cut government spending right NOW it's just going to make things worse.


Tariffs are something I'm still on the fence about... being a net exporter should be a big goal IMO. As it is, our economy is almost as dependant on China's as China is on ours... I kind of like the model(India right?) where they build up their homegrown industry up first by effectively sheltering them from the global market and then once that industry is strong enough shit opens up and they allow imported goods to compete. I haven't really gotten to global economics as much as I'd like to though, so as I said I'm still on the fence... I'm interested in what works, if that includes a dose of protectionism and the benefits outweigh the costs than that is what I am interested in pursuing. I will say however, that free trade with China feels like a drag on the middle class... Not only in terms of wages and jobs but in terms of class mobility as well and it doesn't really feel particuarly satisfying knowing that most things with a "made in China" label were made by people being paid what most of us would consider near slave wages.

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thats a pretty good idea about keeping the industry inside the borders until it is strong enough to compete. havent heard that one before.
i think a massive problem with china is that our two economies dont work well together. we have minimum wage and a (somewhat)free market, workers rights, etc. they control the market so they make more money. they continue to rig their money so its worth less. they force people to work for dirt cheap. how could we compete with that? how do we make our products cheap enough so that it competes with a product made by slaves?
i dont see how it is possible, unless we have a technology in that industry that they dont, which makes the product for WAY cheaper. thats pretty scarce though haha. i think we have to put controls on them and say they need to start treating people right, otherwise theyll just take over the world economy by doing what they do. but our economies are so reliant on eachother, i have no idea how that would work out. it may end up with them getting mad and starting WW3. then were fucked because they have a lot more people

Actually the rich have gotten richer the last 8 years jeff. I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from.

Clinton's tax rates worked. Even the rich enjoyed life under Clinton. Ask one of them.

Bush's tax rates do not work. The proof is in the pudding. Try some.

Spending as a percentage of GNP has not increased all that much over the last 10 years. Revenue as a percentage of GNP on the other hand has plummeted.

Spending has increased a bit. Revenue has taken the hit. This is real easy. Return tax rates to previously proven productive rates. Clinton's rates. Bush's rates have crippled this country. Only a complete moron would see it otherwise.

jeff f said:

they EARNED their money you nitwit.

what makes you think these tax hikes are gonna hit the rich? add up the numbers bud. the well has run dry. there arent enough rich to pay for, now hold on to your hat cuz this is gonna be painful for ya.....THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT.

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they only earned the money by taking advantage of the system! they spend a TON of money on politicians. they essentially bought the government so they can get those tax REDUCTIONS. i believe it was GE that paid ZERO taxes last year. in fact, us tax payer wrote them a fat check! the top tax bracket may be at 35%, but they have enough money to pay politicians in order to put in loopholes, so they really pay way less. why do you think nobody got put in jail because of the financial crisis?

edit: nobody is telling the rich to pay for all government income. its as simple as they dont pay enough, so they should pay more. how come you have to pay taxes, but they dont? why do they get to take our tax money and spend it on investments in china?

mame said:

exactly. Small business creates something like 60% of our new jobs; placing super tax brackets on the super rich really wont effect job creaton much at all IMO .....

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...as he says with a straight face and unemployment begins to climb back up.....

so tell us oh great predictor of all things economic.....how come the unemployment rate went abave 8%? is was your guys who calculated it wouldnt. did they lie? were they mistaken? did they forget one of their pretty little charts in the lounge that day?

when the nitwitOTUS sold us the last package he said it would work. now all we gotta do is "trust" him again....hmmm, wierd huh?

truth is, the unemployment numbers have been gerry mandered all along. now that states have run out of "paint the line on the road.....again" money from uncle barack.......the 99ers are running out of checks.

fool me once mame.....

There is absolutely no evidence that raising taxes hurts job growth. That is just a GOP scare tactic that people who don't look at facts fall for.

You know who they are.

Remember, the GOP talking point is you cut taxes on the rich and they hire people.

Well, we cut taxes on the rich. They didn't hire anyone. Just another GOP myth exposed. Not sure why some still fall for it. Again, try the pudding.

Luger187 said:

thats a pretty good idea about keeping the industry inside the borders until it is strong enough to compete. havent heard that one before.
i think a massive problem with china is that our two economies dont work well together. we have minimum wage and a (somewhat)free market, workers rights, etc. they control the market so they make more money. they continue to rig their money so its worth less. they force people to work for dirt cheap. how could we compete with that? how do we make our products cheap enough so that it competes with a product made by slaves?
i dont see how it is possible, unless we have a technology in that industry that they dont, which makes the product for WAY cheaper. thats pretty scarce though haha. i think we have to put controls on them and say they need to start treating people right, otherwise theyll just take over the world economy by doing what they do. but our economies are so reliant on eachother, i have no idea how that would work out. it may end up with them getting mad and starting WW3. then were fucked because they have a lot more people

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boy, you central planners are really going to town. you should have this whole "economy" thing figured out soon.....

keep talking fellas, you keep cracking us all up, along with the unemployment rate.....

ink the world said:

crime is nuts there.

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You are an ignorant moron!

jeff f said:

...as he says with a straight face and unemployment begins to climb back up.....

so tell us oh great predictor of all things economic.....how come the unemployment rate went abave 8%? is was your guys who calculated it wouldnt. did they lie? were they mistaken? did they forget one of their pretty little charts in the lounge that day?

when the nitwitOTUS sold us the last package he said it would work. now all we gotta do is "trust" him again....hmmm, wierd huh?

truth is, the unemployment numbers have been gerry mandered all along. now that states have run out of "paint the line on the road.....again" money from uncle barack.......the 99ers are running out of checks.

fool me once mame.....

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the economy is extremely complicated. theres no way someone could be 100% about how things will turn out.

jeff f said:

boy, you central planners are really going to town. you should have this whole "economy" thing figured out soon.....

keep talking fellas, you keep cracking us all up, along with the unemployment rate.....

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what is the republican solution? oh yeah! lower taxes! that will fix the economy for sure... just send the money to other countries and everything will be okay.

you do realize they mean lower taxes for the rich, right? not for you

BendBrewer said:

There is absolutely no evidence that raising taxes hurts job growth. That is just a GOP scare tactic that people who don't look at facts fall for.

You know who they are.

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wow, thats weird cuz thats exactly what obama told us it would do, in december, when he re-upped the bush tax cuts....you guys sure are confusing....


http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/obama-extends-bush-era-tax-cuts/MkauxQD6ScyqpIwlfBCcIQ

or did you forget what he said....ONLY SIX FUCKING MONTHS AGO...gotta love you central planners....youre smart

Luger187 said:

the economy is extremely complicated. theres no way someone could be 100% about how things will turn out.



what is the republican solution? oh yeah! lower taxes! that will fix the economy for sure... just send the money to other countries and everything will be okay.

you do realize they mean lower taxes for the rich, right? not for you

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republican? whatever.

but i am sure the "right" plan involves hiring more govt workers cuz that will kick unemployment right in the ass.....god help us

Could it or Will it?

Yeah raising taxes in the middle of a recession surely isn't wise and he didn't do so. We aren't in a recession anymore. So you agree that taxes need to go back to Clinton's rates than? Good. That's the right answer. We all know what Bush's rates did and still do. Weird that people would still support Bush's economics after the results were so crippling. Care to defend yourself and Bush's economy? You are screaming for it to continue.

jeff f said:

wow, thats weird cuz thats exactly what obama told us it would do, in december, when he re-upped the bush tax cuts....you guys sure are confusing....


http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/obama-extends-bush-era-tax-cuts/MkauxQD6ScyqpIwlfBCcIQ

or did you forget what he said....ONLY SIX FUCKING MONTHS AGO...gotta love you central planners....youre smart

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Obama has made plenty factually incorrect statements in the interest of politics, not unlike his Repulican buddies TBH. A few examples, on top of the one you've already pointed out are his apparent belief in the confidence fairy(so he implies the "expansionary Austerity" argument), that government should run it's finances like a household, the Stimulus was "just right" in terms of size (it wasn't big enough), etc.

Obama is not some liberal messiah, on the contrary he has shown to be much more conservative than most of us on the left expected... I mean, sure he billed himself as a centrist and the political climate pretty much demands that he makes a political shift rightward - but I dont think anyone expected him to sound more like Hoover than FDR...

jeff f said:

wow, thats weird cuz thats exactly what obama told us it would do, in december, when he re-upped the bush tax cuts....you guys sure are confusing....


http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/obama-extends-bush-era-tax-cuts/MkauxQD6ScyqpIwlfBCcIQ

or did you forget what he said....ONLY SIX FUCKING MONTHS AGO...gotta love you central planners....youre smart

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so where is this evidence? id really like to know how tax cuts for the rich help create jobs, because i dont know how that works. explain it to me please

jeff f said:

republican? whatever.

but i am sure the "right" plan involves hiring more govt workers cuz that will kick unemployment right in the ass.....god help us

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yes, republican.

and yes, those people would then be employed. so yes, that would help with unemployment.

what would you do to fix it?

Luger187 said:

so where is this evidence? id really like to know how tax cuts for the rich help create jobs, because i dont know how that works. explain it to me please



yes, republican.

and yes, those people would then be employed. so yes, that would help with unemployment.

what would you do to fix it?

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Didn't watch the link did you? I didn't say it, obama did.

jeff f said:

Didn't watch the link did you? I didn't say it, obama did.

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yes i watched it. just because the president says something doesnt make it fact. show me evidence

for the record, i dont give a shit what obama says. hes shown himself to be just another politician. but for you to say he is a liberal is laughable