Hydro questions.

Philosophist

Well-Known Member
Hello

I am trying out a small hydro set up to see how i like it. Though i have a question about ppm.

Using GH hydro nutes do i add Nutes until i hit my target PPM??? That will put me quite a bit over the "recommended" amount of 1-3 Tbsp of nutes per gallon.

Is that right?? Just add nutes to ratio until i hit target PPM??

Love?!!!!!!!!
 

jrinlv

Well-Known Member
Ppm is king, just make sure your meter is working right and calibrated, you will be fine. Good luck ..JR
 

Redbird1223

Active Member
i couldn't get my readings right according to specs either.

i was trying to hit 840ppm during veg, when i finally saw the chart i realized it was actually like 1200ppm and was about to ruin everything

also, keep your res temps around 75...frozen water bottles, i lost my biggest plant to some crazy fungus
 

patlpp

New Member
Redbird is right on. So many burns because someone had a .5 conversion pen and adjusted ppm's as if it were a .7 . good call Red
 

KT420

Active Member
Yeah good on redbird for bringing that up, that's why EC is the better measurment than ppm. ppm needs to go the way of the dodo, along with imperial units, but we just seem to be stuck with them. Also correct me if I'm wrong but the ppm's you run also depends on things like strain and the RH of your environment. If you have low RH and/or higher temp you will want lower ppm because of the amount of water/nutes the plants will be uptaking and transpirating. Ideal ppm's is a variable thing that takes some dialing in, and usually the label on the bottle lists way too high of a ppm. Where are you getting your "target" ppm from? or what are you basing it off of?
 

Redbird1223

Active Member
If you have low RH and/or higher temp you will want lower ppm because of the amount of water/nutes the plants will be uptaking and transpirating. Ideal ppm's is a variable thing that takes some dialing in, and usually the label on the bottle lists way too high of a ppm.

Good point, especially in AZ. I know lots of people prefer to run their lineup closer to 75% strength anyway, once i had the conversion chart, i just went by ppms.
hydro was frustrating for me, had to adjust ph daily, on every dwc bucket, had to buy separate nutes for hydro, res temps, black knats on my hydroton, then i lost the front runner to fungus or mold in like 24 hours flat, it was sad. i don't mean to discourage though, the failure was mine. some people in here can rock and roll with their setups, and were very helpful to me too.
 

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
If you have low RH and/or higher temp you will want lower ppm because of the amount of water/nutes the plants will be uptaking and transpirating. Ideal ppm's is a variable thing that takes some dialing in, and usually the label on the bottle lists way too high of a ppm.

Good point, especially in AZ. I know lots of people prefer to run their lineup closer to 75% strength anyway, once i had the conversion chart, i just went by ppms.
hydro was frustrating for me, had to adjust ph daily, on every dwc bucket, had to buy separate nutes for hydro, res temps, black knats on my hydroton, then i lost the front runner to fungus or mold in like 24 hours flat, it was sad. i don't mean to discourage though, the failure was mine. some people in here can rock and roll with their setups, and were very helpful to me too.
Absolutely every nutrient company wants you to get to the highest PPM you can without killing your plants so that you waste more nutrients and have to go buy more!
 

HB DC

Active Member
Absolutely every nutrient company wants you to get to the highest PPM you can without killing your plants so that you waste more nutrients and have to go buy more!

I have always started at half of what the bottle says and use more if needed!

I am running Biotanicare products! I use them all at half strength except for the Liquid Karma!!
 

YThor

Well-Known Member
It's useful to note that unless you're using very pure water, you're always going to have some starting concentration of salts in the water; just because it's RO doesn't mean PPM = 0. An old membrane (with a home unit) leads to higher dissolved salts.

It is more useful to remember that less nutrients are better than more. Wait until you get the basics right before you start going nutso on trying to jam as many nutrients as you can in there before you start poisoning your plants. Trying to kill cannabis by not giving it enough nutrients is much more difficult than by giving it too much.
 

BeaverHuntr

Well-Known Member
It's useful to note that unless you're using very pure water, you're always going to have some starting concentration of salts in the water; just because it's RO doesn't mean PPM = 0. An old membrane (with a home unit) leads to higher dissolved salts.

It is more useful to remember that less nutrients are better than more. Wait until you get the basics right before you start going nutso on trying to jam as many nutrients as you can in there before you start poisoning your plants. Trying to kill cannabis by not giving it enough nutrients is much more difficult than by giving it too much.
De-ionized R/O systems will put you at 0 PPM
 

YThor

Well-Known Member
De-ionized R/O systems will put you at 0 PPM
These are not the same thing.

Distillation: the separation of water from dissolved solutes (salts, etc.) by vaporizing the water, and condensing the vapor.

Deionization: the use of ion exchange columns to remove dissolved solutes. I've used these before to make ultra-pure water (better than 3 megaohm resistance; distilled is anywhere between 100,000 and 250,000 ohms, while "perfect" ultra-pure water is 18.3 megaohm resistance); the only problem I've had with them is a trace of fluoride making it through somehow. Never did figure out how, but it was in the low part per trillion level, so it wasn't important to us- just a nuisance.

Reverse osmosis: the use of pressure across a selective membrane to purify water.

Of the three, RO produces the lowest quality of water; a well-tuned system will produce very high quality water, but it still pales in comparison to distillation. However, RO water (unless the membrane is very old or punctured) is still more than good enough to produce exceedingly high quality of water for horticulture.

So, while your meter may read 0 ppm, I can assure you that solutes still make it through an RO membrane, and that as that membrane ages, the concentration of solutes will continue to increase- membranes are not immortal, and must be changed. For example:

Chloride: rejection rate of 94-95%
Calcium: 96-98%
Magnesium: 96-98%
Sodium: 92-98%

All of these ions are of interest because they are common to water in the desert southwest; feed water at the consumer level (that which runs through an RO system) can have total dissolved solids levels at several hundred PPM.

If your meter is reading 0 ppm, then it is probably reading water from a relatively new membrane and/or the meter doesn't read very low levels of solutes; these meters simply aren't designed for good resolution at the low end of conductivity. I'd be happy to run any samples of RO water you might have on an ion chromatograph to show you this.
 

patlpp

New Member
@YTHOR - OK now you are just showing off...ion chromeotoegidraft thingy. Nice post.

You sound like you know your equipment. I was wondering when you measure the resistance of the solution, is it by the traditional DC voltage method or what because I understood the EC/ppm sticks use AC?
 

YThor

Well-Known Member
You sound like you know your equipment. I was wondering when you measure the resistance of the solution, is it by the traditional DC voltage method or what because I understood the EC/ppm sticks use AC?
I haven't had to use the handheld meters for a very long time; I really don't know what state of the art is at the consumer level. As an analytical chemist with extensive experience in water quality, I have access to much better stuff- for example, meters that can show the resistance of distilled water (at, say, 250,000 ohms/cm) that drops like a rock just by sticking your finger into the sample as it is being tested.

Conductivity meters have their place, but ultimately they don't tell you what ions are present, or in what relative concentration. Any nutrient solutions I prepare are made on a weight basis (X grams of ammonium nitrate, Y grams of boric acid, Z grams of molybdic acid, etc.), so conductivity doesn't really measure into it at all.
 
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