How to upgrade setup to improve bud density/quality?

So I'm currently finishing up my 3rd successful grow (reaching seed to harvest).

My first attempt I bought a blurple LED from amazon, built a DIY tent with pvc and black/white poly and used bag seed in soil and used General Organics BioSeries for nutrients. I made it to the end and got larfy, poor quality buds understandably so.

My 2nd grow I ordered seeds from Seedsman, replaced the blurple LED with a 150 watt HPS, added my exhaust/intake fans with carbon filter and an oscillating fan. I also switched to a coco based medium (Royal Gold Tupur mix) while still using the General Organics BioSeries nutrients. The buds, though a bit better, were still larfy, fluffy with no density to it. Not enough light. They also foxtailed likely due to the heat from the HPS.



For my 3rd and current grow, I researched in depth about what I needed to improve the quality. I needed more light and a better light spectrum so I ditched the HPS for a Series 2+ Red Spec LED (250 watt) from budgetLED, ditched the DIY tent for an actual 2 x 4 grow tent and switched to General Hydroponics FloraSeries nutrient line. I also run an automated drip system from a reservoir outside of the tent.
Here's a photo of the current setup:


My temps run around 77 to 81F and my humidity runs 55-60% in veg and 45-50% in flower.

I had two plants in this setup, one in jars curing (Zkittlez Auto from Seedsman), one still being flushed in the tent (GelatOG Auto from Seedsman). Both are mostly indica. The 1st plant that I already chopped looks improved from my 2nd grow but still has no density and is not very visually appealing. I have not smoked any of it yet either. I'm not sure if the 2nd plant will be any better.

My question is what is the most important thing that I could upgrade in order to improve the density and quality of my harvests. I know that density is characteristic of indica strains as well as light/environment control being very important factors.

Is the 250 watt led enough to produce dense buds in an 8 sq. ft. space? Should I add supplemental light or invest in a more blue spectrum LED for vegging my plants? Should I get better fans?

I also plan to ditch the Royal Gold Tupur mix for a 100% coco/perlite mix.

Any suggestions very much appreciated.
Thanks!

Light and more light. Even if your LED is actually drawing 250 watts that’s nothing.

Organic living soil. I think 250 is enough for that space i use 480 in a 4x4 and i get very dense sugar coated nugs everytime.

hotrodharley said:

Light and more light. Even if your LED is actually drawing 250 watts that’s nothing.

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31.25W/sqft isn't bad for a good quality LED, but I have no idea what LEDs those lights have.

Cooler temperatures toward the end of flower also help with bud density. I have a hard time keeping my temps down in the summer so my summer harvests are always more fluffy than my harvests from the rest of the year.

hotrodharley said:

Light and more light. Even if your LED is actually drawing 250 watts that’s nothing.

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TreeFarmerCharlie said:

31.25W/sqft isn't bad for a good quality LED, but I have no idea what LEDs those lights have.

Cooler temperatures toward the end of flower also help with bud density. I have a hard time keeping my temps down in the summer so my summer harvests are always more fluffy than my harvests from the rest of the year.

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Yes it's 250 watts actual. They're actually really good LEDs. It's got the samsung LM301b diodes as well as the osram deep red 660nm and far red 730nm. Uses the meanwell drivers as well.

I did want to add another light and was looking at maybe the HLG 100 watt. I would ideally want the temperatures in the low 70's and even running the intake/exhaust full blast I struggle to keep it in the high 70's with just the current light in there. There's also space issues as well.

Cwmoore577 said:

Yes it's 250 watts actual. They're actually really good LEDs. It's got the samsung LM301b diodes as well as the osram deep red 660nm and far red 730nm. Uses the meanwell drivers as well.

I did want to add another light and was looking at maybe the HLG 100 watt. I would ideally want the temperatures in the low 70's and even running the intake/exhaust full blast I struggle to keep it in the high 70's with just the current light in there. There's also space issues as well.

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For LED lighting it's actually better to keep the temp in the low to mid 80s.

Edit: Duh...I meant for most of the grow, not for the end of flower if you want to drop the temps.

I use a 600 watt HPS in a 4 x 4 tent and get big dense colas.

Light and keeping your plant healthy from start to finish is the key to success.

xtsho said:

I use a 600 watt HPS in a 4 x 4 tent and get big dense colas.

Light and keeping your plant healthy from start to finish is the key to success.

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Yea maybe I need another light then? This plant had no noticeable issues throughout the whole grow.

Cwmoore577 said:

Yea maybe I need another light then? This plant had no noticeable issues throughout the whole grow.

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Could be the strain, too. I've had some strains where I got nice hard buds from a cheap Chinese COB LED so you shouldn't have any issues with that light, IMO.

This was grown under that cheap COB light and the buds were really dense. They almost feel like hard foam when you crumble them in you fingers.

Genetics Upgrade

Cwmoore577 said:

Yea maybe I need another light then? This plant had no noticeable issues throughout the whole grow.

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If your fixture has the diodes it says it has, it is plenty.
Running in the low 80's will promote better growth for leds.
I suspect you're coming to the same conclusion I had. Start with known GOOD genetics and the rest is simple.
You can polish a turd all you want to, but it's still a turd.

Cwmoore577 said:

Yes it's 250 watts actual. They're actually really good LEDs. It's got the samsung LM301b diodes as well as the osram deep red 660nm and far red 730nm. Uses the meanwell drivers as well.

I did want to add another light and was looking at maybe the HLG 100 watt. I would ideally want the temperatures in the low 70's and even running the intake/exhaust full blast I struggle to keep it in the high 70's with just the current light in there. There's also space issues as well.

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If you can get hold of a portable ac unit, this is how I keep the inside of the tent cool when it's too hot. Not the prettiest, or most efficient, but definitely allows me to manipulate the temps. I'm drying in there now and it is a steady 65-66°F and it doesnt take up space in the tent.

TreeFarmerCharlie said:

This was grown under that cheap COB light and the buds were really dense. They almost feel like hard foam when you crumble them in you fingers.
View attachment 4593418

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oswizzle said:

Genetics Upgrade

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GBAUTO said:

If your fixture has the diodes it says it has, it is plenty.
Running in the low 80's will promote better growth for leds.
I suspect you're coming to the same conclusion I had. Start with known GOOD genetics and the rest is simple.
You can polish a turd all you want to, but it's still a turd.

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Yea I also thought this. Both strains are from the Seedsman in-house breeding. I wanted to order some from Mephisto but all of their strains are out of stock due to all this covid bs.

Any other breeder recommendations that you've had success with?

And yes, I know some LED companies bs about the actual diodes or use fake meanwells, etc, but BudgetLED is an american company run by veterans and they produce really good lights that are comparable to the HLG quantum boards.

Cwmoore577 said:

Yea maybe I need another light then? This plant had no noticeable issues throughout the whole grow.

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Yes better light will make a huge difference. Doesn't matter if it's HID or LED. You need more.

Biggest factor for bud density is not harvesting early and light imo.