How often do you get bugs in your FFOF?

MichiganMedGrower · Aug 6, 2017

chemphlegm said:
has anyone else been able to discern a plant growing in a hydroponic system compared to the same cut in a pot of org fed dirt?.
I dont claim to know why but the org plant is tougher, sturdier, smells are pronounced differently in my rooms

Are you giving the same array of micro nutes is the hitch here I believe.

I would use seaweed extract and humic acid (fulvic for hydro) if I switched to say a powdered fertilizer like Jacks.

I think and many studies are starting to show that the plants use way more than the 16 or 17 elements originally thought.

They benefit from varied forms of NPK and many more trace elements.

Many growers have reported Botanicare buds tasted better than dyna Grow. Botanicare uses seaweed even in their kind trio which is chemical based.

And the the most popular gh product when quality meds are concerned is the flora nova. Same hybrid type of formula.

What else could justify the difference?

Dynamo626 · Aug 6, 2017

Silica could be acountable for strength. Its available in organic soils but not hydroponic base nutes unless you use a supliment like pro-tekt or rhyno skin. Just a "thinking outloud"

Gimlett · Aug 6, 2017

chemphlegm said:
has anyone else been able to discern a plant growing in a hydroponic system compared to the same cut in a pot of org fed dirt?.
I dont claim to know why but the org plant is tougher, sturdier, smells are pronounced differently in my rooms

The difference you notice is simply because growing hydroponically is a lot harder than making a well balanced organic soil mix and giving it water only for 12 or 15 weeks.
In soil you have bacteria and other microbes moving the nutrients around in and out of different forms amking them all available when they need to be. In hydro we have to try to do this ourselves with chemical forms of the stuff that the bacteria are producing in the soil. Getthing this level of balance or anything near it is pretty tricky. One can, of course, just dump chem in a bucket and grow with it, but you will tell the difference...

Gimlett · Aug 6, 2017

MichiganMedGrower said:
Are you giving the same array of micro nutes is the hitch here I believe.

I would use seaweed extract and humic acid (fulvic for hydro) if I switched to say a powdered fertilizer like Jacks.

I think and many studies are starting to show that the plants use way more than the 16 or 17 elements originally thought.

They benefit from varied forms of NPK and many more trace elements.

Many growers have reported Botanicare buds tasted better than dyna Grow. Botanicare uses seaweed even in their kind trio which is chemical based.

And the the most popular gh product when quality meds are concerned is the flora nova. Same hybrid type of formula.

What else could justify the difference?

Gimlett · Aug 6, 2017

MichiganMedGrower said:
A
I think and many studies are starting to show that the plants use way more than the 16 or 17 elements originally thought.

16 or 17? If memory serves well Mr. Rosenthol said 23...I could have listed them from memory once upon a time. Not now.

MichiganMedGrower · Aug 6, 2017

Gimlett said:
16 or 17? If memory serves well Mr. Rosenthol said 23...I could have listed them from memory once upon a time. Not now.

Well dyna Grow calls complete 16 in the base nute and silica is the 17th.

Botanicare has a plant phd lady (can't remember her name) that came up with CNS 17. The base commercial nute system.

chemphlegm · Aug 7, 2017

MichiganMedGrower said:
Are you giving the same array of micro nutes is the hitch here I believe.

I would use seaweed extract and humic acid (fulvic for hydro) if I switched to say a powdered fertilizer like Jacks.

I think and many studies are starting to show that the plants use way more than the 16 or 17 elements originally thought.

They benefit from varied forms of NPK and many more trace elements.

Many growers have reported Botanicare buds tasted better than dyna Grow. Botanicare uses seaweed even in their kind trio which is chemical based.

And the the most popular gh product when quality meds are concerned is the flora nova. Same hybrid type of formula.

What else could justify the difference?

straight out of the bottle, instructions followed. Bottled nutrients-advanced nutrients, botanicare, gh, dutch master gold, nothing else added unless instructed on bottle.
Of course I cant tell the difference between using those hydro nutes(cept in cost).
But the difference between all those, lined up next to organicare/promix buckets and the discernible differences to me were enough to take the easy way, the best way, the one that tasted better to us, cheaper too. If AN/DM/GH tasted better I'd for sure be using it instead of hauling buckets of wet dirt around daily. In no way am I saying the hydro grown tasted bad, it was awesome.
but the other is clearly a better product at finish.

chemphlegm · Aug 7, 2017

Dynamo626 said:
Silica could be acountable for strength. Its available in organic soils but not hydroponic base nutes unless you use a supliment like pro-tekt or rhyno skin. Just a "thinking outloud"

Good point, Silica as the instructions called for it.

chemphlegm · Aug 7, 2017

Gimlett said:
The difference you notice is simply because growing hydroponically is a lot harder than making a well balanced organic soil mix and giving it water only for 12 or 15 weeks.
In soil you have bacteria and other microbes moving the nutrients around in and out of different forms amking them all available when they need to be. In hydro we have to try to do this ourselves with chemical forms of the stuff that the bacteria are producing in the soil. Getthing this level of balance or anything near it is pretty tricky. One can, of course, just dump chem in a bucket and grow with it, but you will tell the difference...

Yes, absolutely!

and If following the directions on any hydro nutrient system does not produce unbeatable results Ima sticking with the very much harder work of building/managing soil and poop and watering for the very real discernible differences I detect, not limited to finished product. The growing plants speak volumes about their environment and resources, added to the finish results.........

Buba Blend · Aug 7, 2017

MichiganMedGrower said:
I have learned and believe that the minerals in the water help with the germination.

I have read that that extreme praying is from magnesium stress. Maybe the roots found the mag it could uptake.

I pushed the limits on not giving them water to see how they would react. I held out 17 days for one of them.
One more day with dark green leaves and no necrotic spots.

When I was getting the spots on previous grows, I was watching for them closely and I found I could spot them sooner by laying down on the floor and looking up at the leaves using the hps lights above. I would shade my eyes from the light holding a hat so not to be blinded but to light up the leaves. I also found I can spot a mag def that way sooner than by looking from overtop.

MichiganMedGrower · Aug 7, 2017

chemphlegm said:
straight out of the bottle, instructions followed. Bottled nutrients-advanced nutrients, botanicare, gh, dutch master gold, nothing else added unless instructed on bottle.
Of course I cant tell the difference between using those hydro nutes(cept in cost).
But the difference between all those, lined up next to organicare/promix buckets and the discernible differences to me were enough to take the easy way, the best way, the one that tasted better to us, cheaper too. If AN/DM/GH tasted better I'd for sure be using it instead of hauling buckets of wet dirt around daily. In no way am I saying the hydro grown tasted bad, it was awesome.
but the other is clearly a better product at finish.

But have you tried a hybrid between the 2?

I like the organic base to grow the plant most of the way before adding any bottles.

And not just tried. But succeeded.

It has taken me a few years doing the same method before my results were worth even talking about at this level.

And every Grow (from seed) is always different. Even the clones I have run have given me different results from the same inputs.

And I plan to ammend a flower pot with some organic dry nutes like you are suggesting next. I I'll run one in the system soon. I am re stocking new veg now.

I let the plants space out and slowed production the last couple of months for the first time since I started. A perpetual growers vacation I guess. ;-)

MichiganMedGrower · Aug 7, 2017

Buba Blend said:
I pushed the limits on not giving them water to see how they would react. I held out 17 days for one of them.
One more day with dark green leaves and no necrotic spots.

When I was getting the spots on previous grows, I was watching for them closely and I found I could spot them sooner by laying down on the floor and looking up at the leaves using the hps lights above. I would shade my eyes from the light holding a hat so not to be blinded but to light up the leaves. I also found I can spot a mag def that way sooner than by looking from overtop.

2 lol's from me here. First thing am amazed you could watch a plant go that long without watering. I had trouble doing it the one extra necessary day just to learn. I had one go 2 days that I missed once. It was week 10. It wilted. Came back but lost all its lower leaves. Finished fine and frosty though a week later.

The other is laying on the floor looking up. I have many stored pics in my laptop of pics from under there. You can see so much. And unfortunately the mostly hidden nanners we hope aren't there.

When it's healthy and thriving I love laying under the canopy in between a couple of pots. I had called it "plants eye view"

:-)

chemphlegm · Aug 7, 2017

I have in an Octopot, it was fun. organic feed in the dirt on top and a reservoir for wicking up salts.
thats what taught me that neither was a complete formula at least not in the manner I was using it.
It was so delicate, each plant with a pronounced like or dislike of the feeding. so much dialing i ended the follies.
not that it couldnt be great, I know because some of the numbered trials were awesome,(line specific for me) while failing in others.
I re thought it and followed directions on the organicare bag and voila!, no need to fuss with dry salts or bottles either for me. I feel I have a better product than I ever had in the past, keep in mind that doesnt mean crap really, maybe the weed was shit then and only a little less shitty now right

chemphlegm · Aug 7, 2017

I've dropped my fish powder for the much more complete organicare veg line. two days my plants told me it was the right thing to do.
I will not be attempting to grow with the "grow" formula through flower though. I dont mind having two bags one for grow one for flower.
I am adding one dose of the ferts at flower onset with good results, but no harvest results to speak of yet.

Chunky Stool · Aug 7, 2017

MichiganMedGrower said:
But have you tried a hybrid between the 2?

I like the organic base to grow the plant most of the way before adding any bottles.

And not just tried. But succeeded.

It has taken me a few years doing the same method before my results were worth even talking about at this level.

And every Grow (from seed) is always different. Even the clones I have run have given me different results from the same inputs.

And I plan to ammend a flower pot with some organic dry nutes like you are suggesting next. I I'll run one in the system soon. I am re stocking new veg now.

I let the plants space out and slowed production the last couple of months for the first time since I started. A perpetual growers vacation I guess.

I'm running hybrid nutes on my outdoor plants and they are doing well.
Basically just weak nutrient tea combined with small doses of synthetic nutes.

Buba Blend · Aug 7, 2017

I was mistaken on 17 days. just checked my notes, the two plants I was referencing were transplanted at a later date than the others.

Just a share for anyone interested.
I was weighing all of them until recently to have some info.
The one below was transplanted from a 6" clay pot to 3 gallon plastic.
3 gallon pot of Bone dry soil would weigh about 10.5 lbs.
Hydrated dry soil or the point I would water would be 11.5 - 13 depending (just a guess)
Here is how one plants weight changed till watering.
Remember these are small plants transplanted at the beginning of flowering so there are always going to be variations.
My scale #'s may have been off on a few days like 7-21. 1 pound drop was not normal at this stage. .4 drop was more of the norm.

Transplanted and heavily watered sometime between 7-14 and 7-16.

7-19 17.4
7-20 17.2
7-22 16.2?
7-23 15.8
7-24 15.6
7-25 15.2
7-26 15.0
7-27 14.4
7-28 14.4
7-29 13.8
Watered, don't want to risk harming it, no droop, you could tell the plant was not getting any more moisture from the soil and was going to start losing the ability to hold the leaves up much longer, don't want to go to far especially if it risks crystal quality. I figured their was still moisture in the soil but not accessible to the plant, evenly watered plants in 3 gallon pots could go much lighter than 13.8 before watering.
After watering the weight was 19.0
7-30 18.4
7-31 17.2?
8-1 17.2?
8-2 16.6
8-3 16.0
8-4 15.4
8-5 14.8
8-6 N/A
8-7 13.6
8-8 ???

Could be useful info IDK.
I'm about finished weighing pots. Maybe just near watering days.

Buba Blend · Aug 8, 2017

I'm sure this thread is dying or dead.
Thought I'd post here on last time. I was in a pissy mood since Thursday. My wife's suv blew a head gasket. Nothing like starting a car and seeing clouds of smoke out its ass. Expecting an estimate of 2K roughly. Hope I don't get that call with hesitation telling me to sit down today. You will know. If I tell a Newbie tomorrow he's fucking over watering or if I say lovely plants, let have fun talking weed and enjoy the day

papa canna · Aug 8, 2017

All the bickering aside I would say it was a pretty successful thread. A lot of information here if you can read between the shenanigans. On the actual topic of post, I've been stirring up the bin that I've been storing my soil in. A lot less HM since I got it, which leads me to believe less HM means less fungus gnats.

natureboygrower · Aug 8, 2017

papa canna said:
All the bickering aside I would say it was a pretty successful thread. A lot of information here if you can read between the shenanigans. On the actual topic of post, I've been stirring up the bin that I've been storing my soil in. A lot less HM since I got it, which leads me to believe less HM means less fungus gnats.

after reading this thread,think i'll just stay away from ffof.not because of the company itself,but because of my local grow shop where i get my supplies.they arent always on top of getting things inside.That,i personally believe,is part of the problem.ive bought bales of promix (no problems)that have been stored outside from them,but promix is wrapped pretty damn tight.ive also bought happy frog soil conditioner from them,no problems so far.the one other thing i see quite often here,are threads about ffof being a bit hot.that could totally be operator error as well. :peace:

Gimlett · Aug 8, 2017

chemphlegm said:
Yes, absolutely!

and If following the directions on any hydro nutrient system does not produce unbeatable results Ima sticking with the very much harder work of building/managing soil and poop and watering for the very real discernible differences I detect, not limited to finished product. The growing plants speak volumes about their environment and resources, added to the finish results.........

So then you admit that you smoked weed that wasn't grown very well and blamed in on the soil...

How often do you get bugs in your FFOF?

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