How much electricity usage is too much?

jonsnow399 said:

because the meter can tell what electrical devices you are using.

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How on earth can a meter know what electrical devices you are using, I don’t think this is possible, electrical appliances don’t send signals other that how much electric is used, if I run a 1000w Microwave for an hour and a 1000w light for an hour it will only show that I’m using 1000w worth of electricity

DrGrinspoon1010 said:

How on earth can a meter know what electrical devices you are using, I don’t think this is possible, electrical appliances don’t send signals other that how much electric is used, if I run a 1000w Microwave for an hour and a 1000w light for an hour it will only show that I’m using 1000w worth of electricity

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I believe you are correct. A meter can only see the power running through it, not what goes through each branch circuit.

A smart panel on the other hand, will see all. They would be able to tell how much power was being used by each branch circuit and when. But electric companies aren't installing these, or even giving incentives to use them.

All the smart readers see is the main. But that is enough in a lot of cases.

greg nr said:

I believe you are correct. A meter can only see the power running through it, not what goes through each branch circuit.

A smart panel on the other hand, will see all. They would be able to tell how much power was being used by each branch circuit and when. But electric companies aren't installing these, or even giving incentives to use them.

All the smart readers see is the main. But that is enough in a lot of cases.

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Then why did I get a letter telling me exactly my percentage of lighting?

DrGrinspoon1010 said:

How on earth can a meter know what electrical devices you are using, I don’t think this is possible, electrical appliances don’t send signals other that how much electric is used, if I run a 1000w Microwave for an hour and a 1000w light for an hour it will only show that I’m using 1000w worth of electricity

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I'm trying to find the letter, I think the old lady threw it away, but I remember it had at least two categories, lighting and electronics and they gave a breakdown for each, which was, as far as I can tell, 100 percent accurate.

UK startup company Navetas has developed a new smart meter technology that, in addition to tracking overall energy use, is able to distinguish the AC unit, TV, refrigerator and all of the various power loads in a user's house from one another. It calls its technology "energy disaggregation," a process where its computer algorithms can be used to learn the different power loads in a house over a week or two depending on how often each is used. The information can then be presented in-home, on the web and via mobile devices, as well as sent back to the utility.

Navetas CEO Chris Saunders describes the technology, saying "we go into a process where we identify the core elements of an appliance -- for instance, we can identify heating loads, induction motor loads, consumer electronics loads and things like that. We then look at associations between all of those within the home to piece together what is occurring, and to identify discrete appliances.”

Smart meters not only keep track of kw used. They also keep track of time of day compared to power use. Lights on a timer can be logged by a smart meter. Among other things. You all may be surprised at how 'smart' a smart meter actually is,

I'm not a programmer but it should be ridiculously easy to write a computer program that picks out accounts that use over x amount of power, and exceeds x amount for lighting, and run a 12 hr schedule. Voila! Probable cause.

Well, I have to imagine that those fancy algorithms can be fooled pretty easily. They are assuming people aren't putting dummy loads on the system, but you can probably do just that and fool them to high hell.

There are two ways organizations secure data. One is by hiding it, and the other is by flooding the observer with so much useless information they can't easily find the secrets in all the noise.

And all it would likely take is a simple harmonic load generator to inject noise on your power line.

greg nr said:

Well, I have to imagine that those fancy algorithms can be fooled pretty easily. They are assuming people aren't putting dummy loads on the system, but you can probably do just that and fool them to high hell.

There are two ways organizations secure data. One is by hiding it, and the other is by flooding the observer with so much useless information they can't easily find the secrets in all the noise.

And all it would likely take is a simple harmonic load generator to inject noise on your power line.

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That’s it, I mean what they had was an accurate guess based on times, usage and energy consumption patterns. And if it’s a small scale grow like a couple 1kw lights I probably wouldn’t worry too much, if it’s a large scale then with bring a generator into the mix or confuse by using other electrical appliances that run heavy, if I run a 2kw heater for 12 hours a day and a couple of gavitas for the same time I think it would near impossible to tell what is what

greg nr said:

Well, I have to imagine that those fancy algorithms can be fooled pretty easily. They are assuming people aren't putting dummy loads on the system, but you can probably do just that and fool them to high hell.

There are two ways organizations secure data. One is by hiding it, and the other is by flooding the observer with so much useless information they can't easily find the secrets in all the noise.

And all it would likely take is a simple harmonic load generator to inject noise on your power line.

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That would probably really single you out, and what happens when they send out a team to investigate the noise on the line? Anyway, I have a small grow and if they come for me, so be it.

jonsnow399 said:

That would probably really single you out, and what happens when they send out a team to investigate the noise on the line? Anyway, I have a small grow and if they come for me, so be it.

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There are ways around that. You just get the whole neighborhood or city involved. Sell a simple plug-in device that you promote as keeping snooping eyes from your home.

Not advocating it. I have no need for it. But where there is a fox and a hound, nothing moves in straight lines.

greg nr said:

There are ways around that. You just get the whole neighborhood or city involved. Sell a simple plug-in device that you promote as keeping snooping eyes from your home.

Not advocating it. I have no need for it. But where there is a fox and a hound, nothing moves in straight lines.

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LOL, I'll ask my neighbors, NOT.

jonsnow399 said:

LOL, I'll ask my neighbors, NOT.

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Yeah I would probably leave that one aswell lol, as I said In uk police will need more than a few slightly high readings to warrant a raid, and it’s not really in the energy providers interest to grass up people who are using and paying for more electricity than normal, but a perpetual grow is a way to maximize yield for light energy used, half the size room and light for the veg room and hit a grow in half the time, good luck mate

jonsnow399 said:

I don't know about other companies but with my power company it isn't an option, its mandatory or no juice.

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Its not an option. The power company controls everything leading up to, and including, the meter. After that its you and the building inspector.

DrGrinspoon1010 said:

Yeah I would probably leave that one aswell lol, as I said In uk police will need more than a few slightly high readings to warrant a raid, and it’s not really in the energy providers interest to grass up people who are using and paying for more electricity than normal, but a perpetual grow is a way to maximize yield for light energy used, half the size room and light for the veg room and hit a grow in half the time, good luck mate

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In the US it is not enough for a warrant either. It may arouse suspicion and additional attention of course. Which could eventually end in a warrant being issued, who knows? Keep it within reason. Pay your bill on time. And keep your mouth shut. Oh yeah you better be sure you have a market to off your harvest to pay the bill for all of those lights. Really good pot is plentiful and cheap in the US right now.

jonsnow399 said:

LOL, I'll ask my neighbors, NOT.

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I didn't say you should "ask" them, just get them to do it.

greg nr said:

I didn't say you should "ask" them, just get them to do it.

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Good Idea, I'll pull my .44 Bulldog on 'em if they refuse.

I know of guys in the same place for years pulling. 1000-1500$ a month hydro bills never had a issue.

Iv ran 10,000 watt hps for flower and 1200 watts worth of t5 for veg my bill was 1100 a month dod that for 2 years str8 no problems

The way you get caught is if your ever late on your bill