How Many Libertarians Out There?

doc111 said:

Since you made the statement, could you explain to me exactly what part of my statement is "self aggrandizing"?

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the presumption that you knew (or thought you knew) what the founding fathers intended.

i am so sick of people invoking the founding fathers, i hope that trend goes away in 2011.

for fuck sake, they raped their slaves. not exactly the type of people who i want to idolize.

that said, go check out my invocation of the founding fathers not too many posts back.

i am a walking contradiction.

UncleBuck said:

the presumption that you knew (or thought you knew) what the founding fathers intended.

i am so sick of people invoking the founding fathers, i hope that trend goes away in 2011.

for fuck sake, they raped their slaves. not exactly the type of people who i want to idolize.

that said, go check out my invocation of the founding fathers not too many posts back.

i am a walking contradiction.

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I never said "I knew" or even "thought I knew" anything Buck. Come on man! You should know me better than that. I still fail to see how that would be Self Aggrandizing.

What you are sick of or dislike is immaterial to me my friend. I do not exist to placate you or anybody. I invoked the founding fathers because it was relevant to the discussion and the point I was making. Now, instead of just attempting to pull the rug out from under me by "Poo-Pooing" my entire statement, why not point out how I may be incorrect in my "opinion"? I have been a democrat, a republican, and now I consider myself an Independent/Libertarian. What do I mean by that? I do not belong to any political party so I have no party allegiance. I tend to vote libertarian when possible because the philosophy is more inline with my personal beliefs than either of the 2 major parties. I try to do my homework and vote my conscience. Sometimes that means I vote democrat, sometimes it means I vote republican. Sometimes you don't have a choice but to pick the lesser of 2 evils. At the national level that seems an almost impossible task these days. Is it so wrong that I, like so many, am disgusted with the 2 parties? I do hope that this response gives you the "justification" you seek. Not that I care but I guess it would be an added bonus.

UncleBuck said:

the presumption that you knew (or thought you knew) what the founding fathers intended.

i am so sick of people invoking the founding fathers, i hope that trend goes away in 2011.

for fuck sake, they raped their slaves. not exactly the type of people who i want to idolize.

that said, go check out my invocation of the founding fathers not too many posts back.

i am a walking contradiction.

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The founding fathers raped their slaves? I looked everywhere and could find no such proof at all, I'm calling BullShit on this one.

BTW did you know the world had slaves in every country for thousands of years before 1776? It was a completely normal thing in society at that time. Tom Jefferson actually tried to make legislation to free slaves, but others would have no part of it.

NoDrama said:

The founding fathers raped their slaves? I looked everywhere and could find no such proof at all, I'm calling BullShit on this one.

BTW did you know the world had slaves in every country for thousands of years before 1776? It was a completely normal thing in society at that time. Tom Jefferson actually tried to make legislation to free slaves, but others would have no part of it.

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There was at least one founding father that freed every slave he was given. Many of them fought for the abolition of slavery.

The history of our country has been twisted by people with an agenda to show all our founding fathers as racist slave owners when that simply is not true.

Johnnyorganic said:

Now look here, Spock.

I simply said if you claim to be both more power to you.

And I have no problem with Left-leaning Libertarians. Camile Paglia is one of my favorite analysts/writers.

Now you call yourself an Agorist. Super!

I really could give a fuck.

I never tried to throw you out so let's stop this foolishness, shall we?

And I feel the same way about the opportunistic Bob Barr that you do.

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That is a relief man I'm sorry tully sorry its just I had to many fights with LP cultists. Sorry man,the weeds helping me see it in better perspective. Were all agorists in fact even if we don't know it,simply buying weed helps the counter economy let alone growing it.

NLXSK1 said:

There was at least one founding father that freed every slave he was given. Many of them fought for the abolition of slavery.

The history of our country has been twisted by people with an agenda to show all our founding fathers as racist slave owners when that simply is not true.

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Look, I'm not trying to bestow deity status onto our founding fathers. I'm sure they were fallible men. Some may have been bigots, I have no proof one way or the other. Buck's comment was simply a weak attempt at diversion. I have no desire to discuss what vices or virtues our founding fathers may or may not have had. We only know what history tells us about them. We can make educated assumptions as to their true intentions and we can also read their words. It's not a stretch to realize that it was of utmost importance to all of them to prevent the U.S. from becoming a tyranny much like what most were fleeing in Europe. It's all there, in plain English. The progressives can try to put any spin they want to on our founding fathers. I don't think it can be disputed that they were very concerned with seeing to it that we didn't become an oppressive oligarchy or worse yet, a monarchy!

Carthoris said:

The Afghanistan people beat the Russians without a real military. They aren't exactly laying down for us. If there is any lesson you should learn from our current wars it is that a small group of people with small arms and will power can do anything. It isn't about winning a war every time, some time its about making the war not worth it. Ever seen that picture of the guy standing in front of the tank that is going to run him over? In the end, the only type of person who can do nothing to influence his world is a coward who doesn't have the courage to try.

Guns are very tied to liberty. They are not just pieces of metal that flings other pieces of metal, they stand for more than that. Just like a peace symbol isn't just a circle with lines in it to a lot of people. Whether you go by the idea of protecting yourself from those trying to take away your freedoms or you consider owning guns a freedom in itself. If you let them outlaw everything that is dangerous, where does it stop? They outlawed marijuana - none of you support that. It is for much of the same reason that they want to outlaw guns. They don't agree people should be allowed to have ______. Someone else deciding what is right for you, that is the exact opposite of freedom. I am unsure how any smokers of marijuana could not understand the hypocrisy of wanting something they like/want legalized but keeping others from having whatever they want. Whether its financial, physical, or spiritual. You want freedom, be prepared to allow others to have it too.

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all i can say is touche bro touche..... very very good point, unfortunately some people tend to forget about what a few brave men have done in history............

maybe its because their gov didnt tell them hmmmmm i dont know......

UncleBuck said:

the presumption that you knew (or thought you knew) what the founding fathers intended.

i am so sick of people invoking the founding fathers, i hope that trend goes away in 2011.

for fuck sake, they raped their slaves. not exactly the type of people who i want to idolize.

that said, go check out my invocation of the founding fathers not too many posts back.

i am a walking contradiction.

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I hope this was meant as a joke. They only wrote entire books and spelled out exactly what they thought about pretty much everything they were doing. It wasn't that many people, and most of them wrote biographies or personal papers talking about their ideas and thoughts -- much as we are doing here right now. I don't think anyone could ever misconstrue what each of us thinks about the things we have been talking about. They did it their entire lives. They sent each other letters. We have a lot of these things because even then people knew these writings were special and would be important. How can you NOT know what the founding fathers intended on and major subjects. They spelled it out for us. Hell, they wrote us an instruction guide. Granted, some of them believed in different things, but its easy to point out why things were done like they were. Nothing has changed in the world since our founding fathers. There is still freedom and lack thereof.

Libertarians want the government to run efficiently, and in the black. They want the least amount of government that is needed to keep the peace. They want a government that doesn't redistribute the wealth - since that is robbery but using laws instead of a gun.

The entire world is off. Hell, you have to get a building permit to change your front door. The money spent enforcing laws like that is a huge pile of BS. Why do YOU care if I wear a seat belt? Who exactly is the victim of that crime? Smoking weed, drinking, anal sex, gay marriage, having tall grass, changing my front door, having guns, owning gold, how much money I make. Why should any of these be controlled by the government? What place does the government have in any of that?


Completely off subject, but I was thinking about the german money and hyper inflation after both world wars and how if the government went to hell, money would be worth nothing. So any loans you had that were owed in any depressed currency would be easily payed off - they were burning money in germany to keep warm more or less. Im just starting to read about it, its pretty interesting. Does anyone know of any countries that hyper inflated their currency to eliminate debt? It would basically make the national debt a lot less and eliminate all debt basically internally, while destroying all savings and on hand money in the process. Anyone have any insight on this?

I found this to be an excellent article on hyper inflation. Hungary was another victim of it.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Hyperinflation.html

I found more or less the same information just after I posted, but a little more in depth. Pretty interesting. I had never heard anyone talk about it before.

NLXSK1 said:

I found this to be an excellent article on hyper inflation. Hungary was another victim of it.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Hyperinflation.html

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What about Zimbabwe?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Visitors-snap-up-100-trillion-apf-3558543127.html?x=0

doc111 said:

What about Zimbabwe?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Visitors-snap-up-100-trillion-apf-3558543127.html?x=0

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Shame the Bush War happend, the Rhodesian government would not have had that happen to them.

Chad Sexington said:

Shame the Bush War happend, the Rhodesian government would not have had that happen to them.

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lol! Did I miss something? What does the "Bush War" have to do with Zimbabwe or hyperinflation? And which "Bush War" are you referring to?

doc111 said:

lol! Did I miss something? What does the "Bush War" have to do with Zimbabwe or hyperinflation? And which "Bush War" are you referring to?

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I'm saying Rhodesia -what Zimbabwe used to be called- would not have had such crazy inflation. A trillion dollar bill? Rhodesia was managed properly, yes by the 5% of the whites who owned 95% of the country.

The Bush War -wich has nothing to do with President Bush, Jr. or Sr.- was a war wich took place in Rhodesia between the Rhodesian government and the Zimbabwe liberation movement, led by Robert Mugabe.

Chad Sexington said:

I'm saying Rhodesia -what Zimbabwe used to be called- would not have had such crazy inflation. A trillion dollar bill? Rhodesia was managed properly, yes by the 5% of the whites who owned 95% of the country.

The Bush War -wich has nothing to do with President Bush, Jr. or Sr.- was a war wich took place in Rhodesia between the Rhodesian government and the Zimbabwe liberation movement, led by Robert Mugabe.

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My bad. I know nothing of Rhodesian or Zimbabwe history. When you said "Bush War" my mind immediately went to G.W. Bush. lol!

Yeah they kicked out all the white landowners and farmers, now people in Zimbabwe have to starve because for 1 the money is worthless so they have to pan for gold to afford to live and 2, all the farmers are gone, leaving only folks that have no idea how to farm left over.

NLXSK1 said:

Yep, that is why I voted against all the Democrats!!! A few more elections and the swamp will actually be drained and Nancy Pelosi's ass with it...

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I guess then, Nancy fucking Pelosi and the democrats are enemy No. 1, More than the taliban, Well, they probably are more than the taliban since the taliban lives some 6-8 thousand miles away, but you righties are pathetic. Talk about complete idiocy. How could you all live in a disconnected, every man/woman/child for themselves world? I get it that you want to keep all "your" money and fuck everyone else, but let's be real, money is not everything, it is only a tool. A tool is meant to be used, not stored away in some deep dark vault. If I didn't know what assholes you righties are, I could actually feel sorry for your pathetic asses, Mine, mine, mine, all mine, fuck you.

The Taliban are not our enemy. Stop believing Fox News Medi.

NoDrama said:

The Taliban are not our enemy. Stop believing Fox News Medi.

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Actually I agree. If we left Afghanistan and let those "Hillbillies" alone, outside of a few hotheads that had their families killed or maimed by us, I doubt they would even consider us enemies. Just as I'm pretty sure if the Russians/Chinese/N.Koreans/etc. had come over here and killed or maimed a few of our family members, we'd be all forgiving. The average US citizen doesn't know how to look from the other side of the conflicts. Those people have legitimate complaints. If invaded, I'm pretty sure the real men in our society would take up arms and be insurgents, I sure as hell would. I have a really good sniper rifle, can take a mans head clean off at 1,000 yards. There would be a few headless enemies lying around, have to watch out for those pesky helicopter gunships though.

medicineman said:

Actually I agree. If we left Afghanistan and let those "Hillbillies" alone, outside of a few hotheads that had their families killed or maimed by us, I doubt they would even consider us enemies. Just as I'm pretty sure if the Russians/Chinese/N.Koreans/etc. had come over here and killed or maimed a few of our family members, we'd be all forgiving. The average US citizen doesn't know how to look from the other side of the conflicts. Those people have legitimate complaints. If invaded, I'm pretty sure the real men in our society would take up arms and be insurgents, I sure as hell would. I have a really good sniper rifle, can take a mans head clean off at 1,000 yards. There would be a few headless enemies lying around, have to watch out for those pesky helicopter gunships though.

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I see you quoted me in your sig! I'm honored medman! To be fair though, you should put a link to the actual post.