How Many Christians On This Site?

Stoney McFried · Apr 10, 2009

Exactly.It was kept in Latin by the priesthood to keep common folks from being able to read it,thus creating a bunch of ignorant serfs who were basically browbeaten into submission by the priesthood. Witholding knowledge is witholding power.

CrackerJax said:
Which bible Stoney...which edition? who wrote the first bible? How many times has it been edited and translated? The Bible has gone from a home made country stew to campbell's in a can, with everyone INSISTING it's just as good.

out.

But it too, was translated, and imperfectly.Imagine this...L ron Hubbard wrote dianetics 50 years ago, most folks just laugh and laugh. Why is it really any different from what happened 2000 years ago, when a man or group of men decided to sit down and write the Bible? Why would god need to edit? Isn't he perfect?Why are so many books left out? Why do the stories change?

LandofZion said:
I love the old testiment. Brutal reading but pretty cool storys. The bible is a book of parables. It gives you a basis of what was, what happened and what will be. And the ending can be bad or good based on choices you make and if you acknowledge your sins and behavior.
Try writing a book nowdays about just say our presidency. Think all the facts would line up for every naysayer? People would pick it apart too. I dont go to every post and defend christianity and it's many forms but based on sue's title i felt fine. I even explained how I found christ and why. Other than more verbal lashings from people who don't agree, what else is there for me to say? I stand comfortable and solid as a christian

Babs34 · Apr 10, 2009

Stoney McFried said:
I'm not trying to make you embarrassed,I'm just saying that if you really insist on believing something, you should really learn about it.Get a copy of the old testament and compare it to the new.....why would an omnipotent being do a rewrite?

I agree Stoney.....an omnipotent being would NOT do a re-write. I personally believe there are fallacies upon fallacies within the Bible, yet at the same time, I believe it was predestined to "appear that way" to some.
King James "version" is exactly what it is. I think of the Bible, moreso the OT, to be a compiliation of historical events not properly documented. Better put, I feel it is a book to ponder in depth...but not so much for its "precise" timelines.
For me, I take solace in knowing that it was MERE "prophets" who were merely attempting to convey God's word.....and in the mix, basically, royally screwed it up. And then yet, at the same token, God gave us free will------allowed some of those prophets to at least minimally convey His message------and very specifically the message-----No one will get to the Father-----that "omnipotent" God whom we have REASON to fear-----but through the Son.......that "man" in which mankind can relate to.....even the man who so strongly adheres to the value of NOT believing.

Stoney McFried · Apr 10, 2009

See, I don't get that whole fear thing.If he's our father and he loves us, he wouldn't want us to fear him.Fear is a means to control. By threatening people with eternal torture, you're (I refer to the authors of Christianity) trying to make them behave the way you want to, and not to question you, because when the Bible is questioned and Christianity is picked apart,it doesn't stand up. So 6000 years ago, man and dinosaurs walked the earth together, and nobody mentions this in the bible? Nobody points out the earth is round and orbits the sun? Wouldn't god want to give us a heads up on that? If there is a god, or gods, they are far older and incomprehensible to us than we can fathom. If there is a god, he's either cruel or neglectful.I know folks will say "He gave us free will," but what free will does a child have when it is being raped or murdered by some sicko?If god can see, why won't he help? If he can't where is he? If he is omnipotent, he knows all.If he knows all and does nothing, he doesn't care. If he doesn't know, he's not omnipotent, and therefore, not a god. :peace:

Babs34 said:
I agree Stoney.....an omnipotent being would NOT do a re-write. I personally believe there are fallacies upon fallacies within the Bible, yet at the same time, I believe it was predestined to "appear that way" to some.
King James "version" is exactly what it is. I think of the Bible, moreso the OT, to be a compiliation of historical events not properly documented. Better put, I feel it is a book to ponder in depth...but not so much for its "precise" timelines.
For me, I take solace in knowing that it was MERE "prophets" who were merely attempting to convey God's word.....and in the mix, basically, royally screwed it up. And then yet, at the same token, God gave us free will------allowed some of those prophets to at least minimally convey His message------and very specifically the message-----No one will get to the Father-----that "omnipotent" God whom we have REASON to fear-----but through the Son.......that "man" in which mankind can relate to.....even the man who so strongly adheres to the value of NOT believing.

Babs34 · Apr 10, 2009

CrackerJax said:
if you look objectively at western history, it has been Christianity which was the impetus for exploration. We have historically "imposed" Christianity on every society we dominated. One need only look to modern"missionary" work of "spreading the word" to see that it is quite simply a CULT.... Oh, but not MY branch....well all branches come from the same tree...a tree of cultism. The exact same problem comes from Islam, and if you look around, it is the clashes of religious difference which create the flash points of global conflict. Wonderful....

I'm not bashing it, just telling it like it is. If bashing is the best description for the truth...so be it. Amen??

out.

Dammit, LOL....I'm too TOO tired for this. Missionairies are KILLED daily by muslims in Islamic countries simply for preaching the very PEACEFUL word of Christ....which are not the words of the Old Testament~~so to speak. No Christian in a missionary will ever give them, or any other future possible convert, an ultimatum of death ....I'm talking in the literal sense. Let's face it. Some Chrisitans may come accross as a nusance, bothersome.....even annoying as shit.....but dangerous? Never.
And for the sake of argument....let's just say it really is all fiction. Guess what? Still AWESOME words to live by........once it was corrected via Christ that is. Ha, I defy islam to stake that claim via thw words/teachings of "prophet mohammad." <smile>

Babs34 · Apr 10, 2009

Stoney McFried said:
See, I don't get that whole fear thing.If he's our father and he loves us, he wouldn't want us to fear him.Fear is a means to control. By threatening people with eternal torture, you're (I refer to the authors of Christianity) trying to make them behave the way you want to, and not to question you, because when the Bible is questioned and Christianity is picked apart,it doesn't stand up. So 6000 years ago, man and dinosaurs walked the earth together, and nobody mentions this in the bible? Nobody points out the earth is round and orbits the sun? Wouldn't god want to give us a heads up on that? If there is a god, or gods, they are far older and incomprehensible to us than we can fathom. If there is a god, he's either cruel or neglectful.I know folks will say "He gave us free will," but what free will does a child have when it is being raped or murdered by some sicko?If god can see, why won't he help? If he can't where is he? If he is omnipotent, he knows all.If he knows all and does nothing, he doesn't care. If he doesn't know, he's not omnipotent, and therefore, not a god.

LOL, and I just did say I was WAY TOO tired to do this, yet here I sit.....
Stoney, it sounds to me that you are insistent upon having all too many answers, lol. That would make you God if you even began to know a percentage you wished to. When I speak in terms of "fearing" God..it's not a bad, but good thing. I don't know if you are a parent...but could you imagine being one and NOT having your child have that minimal fear factor? That child would be hell bound for sure.....don't laugh. I'm being cynical....not the Bible thumping Baptist. Have you ever seen a mother with a toddler in public? LOL!!!! If looks could kill, mothers (and fathers) would need no weapon...take my word. Without those years of being looked upon as "hateful guidance".........a child would grow into a young man/woman ending up in severe havoc and grief. If you don't take the time and energy (and it takes A LOT of energy) to guide-----and I do mean by way of punishment----that child is doomed. That child goes through life with very warped views of reality in society and ends up in a hopeless place. Now, "balancing" all of this is the hardest job in the world.
When you take something like this (so small a scale) and you even attempt to apply it on a level (mind you to a level to someone who can not even possibly fathom the reality of a God)---------there lies FEAR. When a person realizes that there are in fact consequences to life choices (and no.....not just the ones the gov't imposes)......there's FEAR. With the "Father" there is that ever present knowledge that He has seen your sins, past and present.....with Christ, there is that compassion, that forgiveness, that solitude of feeling whole and complete......one great word: FORGIVEN. There are no worse chains to carry in life than that of feeling eternally guilty.

Babs34 · Apr 10, 2009

Choice......I just don't think God wishes any evil upon us whatsoever. So many times in my life, I half-heartedly called upon God to HELP, and I do mean I desperately called upon that. I can now look back in my life and see where God was, REALLY TRULY was there HELPING.....whereas I simply could not see it at all then.
It's my humble opinion that God doesn't want zombies. He wishes us to desire His face, if you will. We, as natural born sinners, we make our choices. Some of us use those choices (both good and bad) to learn from them and take them to broader levels of conciousness. Am I claiming myself more superior to you or anyone else? Not in the least. I have only begun to live. What is life without the "alpha" and the "Omega"...no new beginning/no middle/no end.......no lessons learned........just robots.

Stoney McFried · Apr 10, 2009

But...if you don't question things, how do you learn? You can't just say, "It's that way because it is." Because that's not good enough.That won't challenge the mind, make you grow as a person.

Yes, I have two children. No, they don't fear me in the sense that I will harm them. they may get bitched at,but they know I will protect them with my life.
As for consequences in the afterlife...that isn't what stops me from hurting others,and doing"bad" things...I don't like to hurt people, so I don't do it.
Speaking as a parent, I know that even if my kids did something awful, I would not punish them eternally for it. I would not torture them and attempt to control their actions by making them afraid for their very souls. That isn't love.If you fear him,you're not loving him...you're obeying him so he doesn't squash you like a bug. If we were all god's children, and Jesus was as well,how the heck does it make any sense to kill your children's brother so you don't have to kill them?Huh? That's the logic of a psycopath. I don't need to be forgiven for these imagined sins by anyone unless I committed them directly against them.And most of the so called sins aren't even worthy of punishment. Guilt is another emotion used to control.If he gave you a mind to think with, but says don't use it to question me, then he's a megalomaniac.

Babs34 said:
LOL, and I just did say I was WAY TOO tired to do this, yet here I sit.....
Stoney, it sounds to me that you are insistent upon having all too many answers, lol. That would make you God if you even began to know a percentage you wished to. When I speak in terms of "fearing" God..it's not a bad, but good thing. I don't know if you are a parent...but could you imagine being one and NOT having your child have that minimal fear factor? That child would be hell bound for sure.....don't laugh. I'm being cynical....not the Bible thumping Baptist. Have you ever seen a mother with a toddler in public? LOL!!!! If looks could kill, mothers (and fathers) would need no weapon...take my word. Without those years of being looked upon as "hateful guidance".........a child would grow into a young man/woman ending up in severe havoc and grief. If you don't take the time and energy (and it takes A LOT of energy) to guide-----and I do mean by way of punishment----that child is doomed. That child goes through life with very warped views of reality in society and ends up in a hopeless place. Now, "balancing" all of this is the hardest job in the world.
When you take something like this (so small a scale) and you even attempt to apply it on a level (mind you to a level to someone who can not even possibly fathom the reality of a God)---------there lies FEAR. When a person realizes that there are in fact consequences to life choices (and no.....not just the ones the gov't imposes)......there's FEAR. With the "Father" there is that ever present knowledge that He has seen your sins, past and present.....with Christ, there is that compassion, that forgiveness, that solitude of feeling whole and complete......one great word: FORGIVEN. There are no worse chains to carry in life than that of feeling eternally guilty.

Stoney McFried · Apr 10, 2009

But if he exists, he's supposedly infinite and you are finite.You can't comprehend what he wants, its impossible.No baby is a natural born "sinner", that's just the yoke that the church tries to place on your shoulders so the mind control can begin early.

Babs34 said:
Choice......I just don't think God wishes any evil upon us whatsoever. So many times in my life, I half-heartedly called upon God to HELP, and I do mean I desperately called upon that. I can now look back in my life and see where God was, REALLY TRULY was there HELPING.....whereas I simply could not see it at all then.
It's my humble opinion that God doesn't want zombies. He wishes us to desire His face, if you will. We, as natural born sinners, we make our choices. Some of us use those choices (both good and bad) to learn from them and take them to broader levels of conciousness. Am I claiming myself more superior to you or anyone else? Not in the least. I have only begun to live. What is life without the "alpha" and the "Omega"...no new beginning/no middle/no end.......no lessons learned........just robots.

Babs34 · Apr 10, 2009

OK, I will rephrase...babies in fact do not sin, but they are in fact born into a world of untold sinfulness.......and where better to learn of sin, but then by your surroundings? Notice that mongloid children, special needs children accross the board......they will just SMILE, SMILE, SMILE. Their worst "sin" is that they will never go on to lead lives as you and I do......with choices. Their minds are forever caught up in that baby mentaliity whereas they never even learn how to commit the first sin.
Oh no.....I am VERY certain God wishes us to question, VERY MUCH SO. Without questions, there are no answers. But, as I said already, I don't believe He guides us to find our answers via the Bible alone.
You can still "bitch at your children" and put the fear of God into them, LOL.......yeap, sure can. The parent who is unable to instill fear is the parent who IS out of control. I don't know about you, but I definitely need to be the one in control...I am the parent....not vice verca. That is the word, ugly as it sounds: CONTROL. I, as the parent, have the last say....that's final. Notice too that when they hate it the most is when it's usually what's best for them. What can I say? I am Mom and Dad....always have been.
This eternal damnation you refer to.....I don't see it that way. In fact, I don't even see anywhere in the Bible speaking of burning flesh...now, the quran has that--very explicitly at that.
I believe hell to be the total absence of God.....a void words can not even begin to describe.

Stoney McFried · Apr 10, 2009

Well, here is a link that tells how many times hell is mentioned in each version of the bible.http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/hell.html
Here are some bible quotes where it refers to fire.

Revelation 19:20 talks about the fiery lake: "But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The heat of Hell:

In the Christian Scriptures, one of the most common attributes mentioned about Hell is its high temperature:

[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica] [/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."[/FONT]