How far can "ripeness" be pushed?

CheGueVapo said:

When your friends want buds at a low price or gifted for free like if it was nothing or easy and dont respect the work, like if it shit from the streets and not valueing the brutal mass of trichomes modern lights the grower produces in comparison to whatever they saw in a coffeeshop, higher quality, these good growers must be idiot to not tumble their compact bud outside-surface and produce a hash-plate with +80% for himself, or give-away these plates under value, like this one Why would I smoke weed anymore, when i can have THIS:

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1st choice sputnik of best maroc-family is a joke against this feminised sinsemilia hash. The value per gramm is simply to high for sale.... you want this for yourself if you can get your hands on it. Or produce it yourself witout destroying the buds like with iceolator.

This is what the coffeeshops and dispensories do too since a few years the THC and trichome-heads are hardly declining.... they tumbling more, because the buds grow more resin than ever before, thanks to light quality in the riping-phase.

Thats how it's going to be pushed to the max.... but nobody wants to pay it, but have more THC for free to buy less... suuuure, but who is the grower? Santa Clause? No, so they tumble it 5% of the mass down, still have good weed, but have the premium hash for themselves and dont need take away weed for themselves... so they have MORE to sell.

The question is... why would you not do it? If you smoke thats hash instead of weed, your smoking less material to get the same THC into your blood. You have 5% less mass..... but this "weed" you dont smoke anymore adds up instead, and its more, so you have more to trade with in effect ;=)

No problem when you produce +30% thc buds.... they are still upper 20s afterwards and still not "standard".

Shoot me I m afriend of dry sieved hash... this quality i produce for myself, you wont find in the highest regions of marokko or himalaya. Anyone who wants my weed, must let me take my part or find something else, or do it himself.

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some of us like a nice strong beer, others enjoy wine, spirits or liquor. I still wouldn't tumble my buds before putting them on the shelf, the amount of handling those buds go through I wouldn't wanna lose any bag appeal. But I don't vend anymore and don't work in a collective I run my own business so instead I take care of myself and know what I am putting in my body.

That hash looks amazing no doubt, I love a nice press, dry sift and I used to love the flavors in the bho but all it takes is some bad batches to find out quick I didn't want that.

To each their own, I just know many places don't tumble their buds. I am sure there are plenty that do but to me that is shady business regardless of whether it takes away from the high or not.

(Alright the definition of "fucktardianism" is now under review)

Most people believe the dutch weed in the coffeeshops was grown legally in the netherlands.
But how comes the dutch government has no trace of where it comes from at all....
Somewhere in good old germany, there seems to be a folk of evil criminal tumblers...
They are so high, like, i don't know, so high was noone before... can't leterally describe the highness of thou
The NASA can't do anything what they can't do, they reach higher, including their grow lights.
If they wouldn't grow weed, be glad, they might come up with atomicbombs or stuff like meth, like in the past... these crazy germans, always put there nose to deep in anything and dont get them out again Never forget they find out sh*t... every thing!
But don't panic, they are still under pursue for smoking or selling weed and locked up behind bars, these evil underground tumblers.

Some things will never change!

Token Dankies said:

for we have added to the language this day

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Your work alone.

CheGueVapo said:

Most people believe the dutch weed in the coffeeshops was grown legally in the netherlands.

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Cannabis is illegal in the Netherlands. All the commercial growing (non-medical) that is going on is technically illegal, but tolerated. The weed in the coffee shops strictly speaking should not even exist, from a legal point of view.

CheGueVapo said:

But how comes the dutch government has no trace of where it comes from at all....

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I guess everybody knows where it comes from. It is grown by the people running the coffee shops or by people close to them; illegally grown, technically.

AFAIK there are now limited initiatives to actually regulate the growing, and have the product tested etc. (unrelated to production of medical cannabis).

CheGueVapo said:

...
this quality i produce for myself, you wont find in the highest regions of marokko or himalaya. Anyone who wants my weed, must let me take my part or find something else, or do it himself.

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F'n 'A'!


I always knew that everything that i bought all my life was stepped on, low grade, reasonable shit. No problem, you got a buzz, and back in the day when you did happen to come across some exceptionally good shit, like Acapulco Gold, you got a F'n amazing and incredible BUZZ!, and life was good.

It wasn't until I grew my own plants and i seen my own gorgeous, sexy, super-fat, trichome-laced, sugar-coated, terpene-saturated, bloomed to perfection buds, that it hit me: No one, and i do mean NO ONE is getting these buds. I don't care what price you're offering. You can have any of the lower shit off the stem, but you ain't getting my cream.

That's when i realized that we, as buyers, or anyone else in the distribution chain, will never see product at this level of perfection. The grower will always take the cream off the top for himself - no question.

At first this bothered me (how dare they; how dare the universe withhold product of this quality from ever having a chance of reaching us), but now, i don't care, as i understand why they are doing it. It's NOT for the money. It's for the absolute perfection. It's like owning a Van Gough, a Da Vinci, a Rembrandt, a Monet, and i ain't gonna give any of these to you. They're mine!

You want it, you grow it!

Token Dankies said:

Praise ye CSN, for we have added to the language this day!

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Hallelujah! Praise be!

ComputerSaysNo said:

It is grown by the people running the coffee shops or by people close to them

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Sure if you think that could ever be enough, what you think they do when it run empty? Close they shop? No it always FULL of weed, no matter how much is selled.... if you believe thats all from the "closer" and there's no import over the borders, fine. But in fact there is more export from germany TO the coffeshops than import personal use from those shops back to germany its the same mafia that sells anywhere without a coffeeshop, they have all nationalities.... they drive in there like a consumer, get to the back and sell their weed.

They dont control the roads or shipyards towards the netherlands for import of weed.... the cops are smeared. Yes it's still completely tehcnaically illegal.... the cops close their eyes, nothing more. Do you think they do it because they dont profit? Haha, no! They control the consuments trying to get away with it back with 5g over the border ... because those consuments dont want to buy illegal on the streets in germany. Its hilarious.

Germany doesn't move! It's too conservative! The elections proof this matter is stuck again 4 year wont change anything!

CheGueVapo said:

... these crazy germans, always put there nose to deep in anything and dont get them out again Never forget they find out sh*t... every thing!

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Lmao. I'm German; 'Tis true.

I can't speak for all dispensaries or commercial growers, but I do have a good buddy from high school who supplies dispensaries with extremely mediocre bud and he admits to "lightly" harvesting trichomes before they go to the dispo. This isn't a rumor or urban legend.... unscrupulous growers big and small have done this since the 70s. I remember trimming for a guy as a kid (beat having a paper route) and him bouncing the hell out of the trimmed buds and shake over a screen. THC percentages are so high across the board, the majority of people just don't notice-if you haven't grown yourself or had access to premium homegrown, then that sorry screened dispo weed looks amazing!

CheGueVapo said:

these crazy germans, always put there nose to deep in anything and dont get them out again Never forget they find out sh*t... every thing!

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phrygian44 said:

Lmao. I'm German; 'Tis true.

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Not quite. We already know everything, or at least know better than others. No need to "find out sh*t".

CheGueVapo said:

Sure if you think that could ever be enough, what you think they do when it run empty? Close they shop? No it always FULL of weed, no matter how much is selled.... if you believe thats all from the "closer" and there's no import over the borders, fine. But in fact there is more export from germany TO the coffeshops than import personal use from those shops back to germany

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This is very well possible. I am completely convinced that nowadays the majority of the weed that is consumed is grown pretty close by. And in NL they have extra demand, so it is unlikely that it is all grown domestically there.

At the end of the day, it does not matter for indoor grows. The Dutch don't have a magic wand that makes their weed inexplicable better than others'.

CheGueVapo said:

Germany doesn't move! It's too conservative! The elections proof this matter is stuck again 4 year wont change anything!

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Very true, but we will see. I have the faint hope that the next 4 years might bring some change, if the most likely scenario for a future government plays out (center-left coalition); both the Greens and our beloved yellow friends are in favour of liberalizing.

phrygian44 said:

You want it, you grow it!

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Exactly... have the balls first, especially if you're pursued for every tiny milligramms of this result.... the THC, not the bud alone!
Its not that i dont share it .... i roll a blaster from the hash or from the weed i got and pass it on without a tear it beiing gone.

I just dont like when people enjoy it, then want to have it, and get angry when I say that this isn't for sale.... or if that the price that I think that its worth it appears them too high compared to some henna-hash they can get their hands on and calling it "zerozero".... i can 0,0xmm-sieve a cartire if grind that small enough to powder xF. If the hash is 4times the thc compared to a 20% THC bud, and i know that, because i use that, and use 4 times less to have my fun compared to my weed... then that it is four times the price of that weed, what you think...... People look at me like i've insulted them ... filled up with enviousness... they expected the hash beeing cheaper than the weed lol, like if it not was concentrated bang.... like if it is a cheap extended import product from marocco or lebananos outdoor semilia sieves...

Whatever anywhere i show up and people know me, within minutes they sit next to me and wait for anything to smoke from me....

Dont think any one of those pass me a beer... they think im millionaire or something because I always have weed... they take it easy, but they dont give anything back I dont mind but take this as a compliment to my growing skills Making the junkies

You should see their eyes when I say, "yes the weed is tumbled, guess where I got my twisla-hash from that you think is so expensive".... if looks could kill, i'd be dead already. Still they enjoy it... you should see their eyes after smoking the buds lol... kinda different.... smiling at me with this infant happy face. haha

And when i look what the POCs here sell in terms of quality and mass..... i have no doubt im correct thinking my tumbled weed still is more premium, more clean, and when i got something to give, it's still cheaper than anywhere else... I dont produce much and dont do it for the money, but to not need to buy this dirt myself, still is kinda disvaluing feeling if someone tries to ask you for lot more and lower course, and compares you to prices of these "dirt", dont see the difference, never recognising whats the resin at all is, and that the resin contains the bang, like if Im a dealer having no idea of his own products, that unlocks course when they wink with more money....... im not, im a grower, focusing on the Resin, not the buds, trying to not show it that im a grower to anyone first moment lol.... and that feels disrespectful, I do it only to have enough twisla/sputnik-hash for me, I dont need to sell it, but doing those a favor who want to buy it... that im sure of.... and of course I still love smoking the buds.... up to now, ive reinvested every cent back in better growing equipement and constructing better led-lamps.... thats my hobbies.

I didn't trust hash in the past and this is whate I experience in others. Some only trust buds at all, and seeing it as they only safe product when buying, because with hash you never know, you dont "see" anything, just this "mass"... so the trust in hash is low, but they do more and more shit with synthetic cannabinoids on buds too, im glad that im SAFE with any of my product... thats all I care... i dont want coffeshop... i want the authorities stop caring what is inside MY ROOM, what I DO, and what I CONSUME! This is non of anyones business... not even the laws! This is my freedom!

Anyways, having my own hash-stuff, sieving it 0,0xmm changed my mind! I like it! And I trust myself, of course.... so what!?

Rurumo said:

I do have a good buddy from high school who supplies dispensaries with extremely mediocre bud and he admits to "lightly" harvesting trichomes before they go to the dispo. This isn't a rumor or urban legend.... unscrupulous growers big and small have done this since the 70s.

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OF COURSE they have. To be quite honest, I can hardly even fault them. It is just way, way too tempting for somebody who is interested in their own product; and nobody will ever be the wiser about it.

(Not that I condone such dishonesty, but I've stopped believing in Santa and the good in humans a long time ago.)

Your best bet is probably to buy from somebody who does not consume much themselves; who do it as a hobby. There you'd have a chance to get some prime product grown just for the joy of it.

Rurumo said:

I remember trimming for a guy as a kid (beat having a paper route)

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Rurumo said:

THC percentages are so high across the board, the majority of people just don't notice

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Absolutely, and that might even be taken as "no harm done by giving the buds a little shakety-shake". If the customers do not even notice, what is the damage? (Yes, it is dishonest.)

Anytime somebody says "but i can have 'haze' for lower price"
I answer: "fine, its tumbled, whatever"... and Im outta the deal and must never see him again.
Still I know he remembers what he just smoked from me.... and that drives him mad, with what ive just said.

I try to maximally confuse the facts and fictions of the people

ComputerSaysNo said:

"no harm done by giving the buds a little shakety-shake

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You do know, that newer +37% THC strains are not just "better selections", dont you? Its because the grow-lights advanced. For decades people thought it was the UVB. But it's not! The photolyase-process has been discovered, plants determine the amount UVB icoming radiation by measuring the UVA in the near PAR-range. You trick them with THAT to produce more resin and THC in the right moment, not with the UVB!

Another aspect is the density of the buds themselves what is determined by the light intensity that you are growing....

If you grow 500-700ppfd... the sieving might rip the resin of completely from the fluffy weed.... but if you grow dense buds at high intensity 800-1000pppf and use UVA/violets to increase resin secretion in the riping phase, you can get ANY strain higher than the 30% THC mark.... and it grows so dense and compact, that no matter you tumble it frozen for a hole day..... the inside resin stay tight! You can only access it via grinding it!

You only reduce the outter surface trichomes with tumbling high density compact flowers, those that everyone loves and everyone wants.... and it does not significantly reduce the flowerbuds overall content.... you reducing only a tiny percentage.

And thats why afterwards those flowers STILL have +25% thc possible... stilll giving the grower pure 5% resin from the harvest that had more than 30% resin, ready to be pressed to hash!

It matters from what montain you tumble it down... and how much! How small you cut the dense buds down for the tumbling process... if you take big flowers.... barely few is sieved, no matte rhow long.... you must cut them down to access resin. Thats why tumbling big buds... say like 500g to carry out 25g twisla-hash is no proiblem.... if the weed had 25% resin (125g) than you took off one fifth only..... that menas your 25% dope is now 20% dope.... oooooh now... wanna buy 20% weed? SURE YOU WANT! DONT YOU?

If you can afford it, have that equipement.... go for it!

Why should it be a big thing.... one buys it at all because of the THC.... in the coffeeshops the higher THC strains have higher price.
This doesn't work without the shops..... noone wants to buy your 20bucks weed.... so you tumble it down to be 10bucks weed and have the 20 bucks hash for yourself... its easy! No shame! Stop shaming ...

I just say how it is.... officials warning for too high THC content, thats such a danger, these THC keeps increasing, oh dare lol... great point... Do something against it.... increase it, ok bro, but then tumble it down like the walls of jericho Haha...

CheGueVapo said:

And thats why afterwards those flowers STILL have +25% thc possible...

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Yes, and even if you "tumbled" them down from 25% to 15% that would still be more than strong enough for most people. Even 10%.

The more casual consumers don't feel the difference between 10% or 25%. It all gets them high as fuck after a few tokes. (I'm not even talking about myself because I'm an actual micro-doser.)

There are lots and LOTS of people who are just happy to grab some weed that gets them high for a few hours on the weekend; they are pleased when the stuff is not laced, and they'll buy it from you at the standard rate with a happy face. Many of them don't even know what "trichomes" are, or what a resin-rich flower looks like.

The Canadians around here and the people from legal US states are so used to getting whatever they want by now that it's hard for them to see that (completely understandable).

ROSIN? SHATTER? These things practically don't exist on the EU BM, or so expensive that there's no market for it.

CheGueVapo said:

If you can afford it, have that equipement.... go for it!

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Does not sound expensive to me to install a few extra UVA strips. It's the knowledge that counts.
(Very interesting BTW.)

I even found people that took there mouth to full.... they said 3 seconds after the toke: "I dont feel anything".... "i said, ya, no scratchy, but wait for the bang"... he toke more and still had big mouth.... 5 minutes later he was done, laying there like, well "done"... he couldn't even answer me "what you feel now?"

That was unsieved, blunt. You could really smoke that like air, it tasted well pleasantly, but very subtile.... and if you're tolerant... it's ok, dude, but i knocked off anyone who not passed that whopper quickly.... some realised, toke one and passed it on.... some others greedy vacuumcleaners still proceed their toketoketoketoke.... and payd it with:

It worked in teaching them a lesson....

People dont realize what it means to have +30% THC weed.... you need only tiny doses to knock some unskilled off who is used to 10-15% weed. If you tolerate that, easily after some experience, doesn't mean others can.

Yeah it's right most people are fine with 10% THC weed.

Whyshould one achieve higher tolerance at all if one wants the highness effect..... god damnit, one must smoke less to feel higher.... the more you put in, the more it's just medicinal, but no more bang.... saying you are no more under the influence, like beeing drunk.

When you smoke 1g of 25-30% THC weed or hash a day, after some days, you are pretty much psychicly sober... feeling no more effect. Thats normal.

Again why to give away such buds or such hash to beginners who believe "weed is weed"... this is the most hilarious sentence i heard... "weed is weed". Gosh no!

ComputerSaysNo said:

Does not sound expensive to me to install a few extra UVA strips

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They have a quite shorter life expectancy that the other leds.... also 385,395,405 are relatively expensive. So the costs are a thing that reflect in the price, non the less it is possible to harvest more THC per square than ever before or than ever seen in the wilderness, with only femines at this conditions.

I buy that stuff extra to achieve that higher resin, and i sieve a part of it off, for me and for those who want to have it pure. Still having the weed up from 20-25%... i think thats a good compromise.

It is a cost. These are around ten euros per chip in europe..... and their life-expectancy is far shorter than royalblue, so you need extra channel, and replace them expensivly from time to time after few years. So its significant cost, compared to a good led-growlight that itself has possible 90% luminance over 60khrs (13years) ...over the time the UVAs are getting far more expensive in the total cost this way per gram over the time, than the rest of the LEDs. :/

BTW: dont revert + -... those chips cant handle it and die! Thats also an aspect why you often have to replace them, it's because of the these-chipsmaterial.... take care the right polarity with the UVAs... 420-430nm HP-chips are also easy to kill this way!

ComputerSaysNo said:

Not quite. We already know everything, or at least know better than others. No need to "find out

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Sssssssssh! I know, that we already know. I just didn't want to scare the shit outta everyone and let them know.

I know a lot... but in fact, it's nothing! So i know nothing! Hold my beer, reach me the cup of hemlock... I'm going to prove it anytime! I'm stupid
*coughcough

CheGueVapo said:

Exactly... have the balls first, especially if you're pursued for every tiny milligramms of this result.... the THC, not the bud alone!
Its not that i dont share it .... i roll a blaster from the hash or from the weed i got and pass it on without a tear it beiing gone.

I just dont like when people enjoy it, then want to have it, and get angry when I say that this isn't for sale....!?

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I hear you on both points. When i say no one's getting it, i mean no one other than my immediate family and very close friends. I'll give them a couple of rolls for a birthday or Xmas presents, but they don't get any if they say "hay, man, can i get any more of this shit?" I check my computer, and The Computer Says No.

Side Note: if you really want to know how good your close friends are, phone them up and say you're moving outta your house in 2 weeks time and need help, and then see who turns up to help or backs out with a lame excuse.

And if you are just happen to be moving, keep an eye on everyone and see who does the work, and who stands around and does all the talking. And Yes, i am talking about YOU, DION.

CheGueVapo said:

It matters from what montain you tumble it down... and how much!

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This particular comment, as well as all the others here are all "very valid" points.
I have no problem with someone taking some off the top. It's their grow, they did all the work and put all kinds of their love into the plants. They've earned the right to do so. And do you think the shit you buy from anyone else is supposed to be magically any better?
Hell! If i knew someone was growing 35 and cutting 10 for himself, which leaves me with a respectable 25%THC, F', man, i would be a loyal and greatful customer.

I also guess this is an issue because it's not just a matter of taking a cut, it's harvesting the trichomes right of the bud in a harmful and mechanical manner. And again, i say "So what? " there's plenty of embedded trichomes still buried inside the bud, and yes, the harvesting process does break/pop its fair share of 'chomes, but which then get absorbed into the pourus calyx's, so what's the real issue?

I always wanted to make hash. It's my favorite stone by far, but was always scared to do so. But now that I've seen CheGueVapo's gorgeous masterpiece and pressed work of art, I think im going to start doing the same.

And if you want all of the virgin-pure buds, or hash made from the top trich's, then as i said before, Grow the plants and do all the damn work yourself. Betcha dollars to donuts that after you've done this, you'll have switched over to the dark side too.