High power COB -vs- hps vertical shoot out

WWShadow

WWShadow

Well-Known Member
getsoutalive said:
WWS, you are correct. COBs just can't compete vertically. Said this two weeks ago up thread and got yelled at for all kinds of crap that I never said. COBs are just now passing HPS in a horizontal hood setup. The bare vertically hung HPS is far more efficient than horizontal mounting in a hood. COBs with 110 degree light output are not well suited to a design that requires light in a 360 pattern..
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I'm not saying COB LEDs can't compete. I fully think that they can more than compete, once arranged to maximize coverage for the style of grow that is being done. Like I said, I may not have explained it properly in my previous post.
I think that that not only can LEDs compete but that done properly they can exceed HPS in flowering.

@ttystikk is one of those that is proving it can be done. So your statement isn't exactly true. Light is light whether horizontal or vertical. It's all in how you use it.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
WWShadow said:
I'm not saying COB LEDs can't compete. I fully think that they can more than compete, once arranged to maximize coverage for the style of grow that is being done. Like I said, I may not have explained it properly in my previous post.
I think that that not only can LEDs compete but that done properly they can exceed HPS in flowering.

@ttystikk is one of those that is proving it can be done. So your statement isn't exactly true. Light is light whether horizontal or vertical. It's all in how you use it.
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Couldn't say it better, myself.
 
G

getsoutalive

Well-Known Member
WWShadow said:
I'm not saying COB LEDs can't compete. I fully think that they can more than compete, once arranged to maximize coverage for the style of grow that is being done. Like I said, I may not have explained it properly in my previous post.
I think that that not only can LEDs compete but that done properly they can exceed HPS in flowering.

@ttystikk is one of those that is proving it can be done. So your statement isn't exactly true. Light is light whether horizontal or vertical. It's all in how you use it.
Click to expand...

Fine, can't compete may be overstating it. But, as I said upthread, I believe that in a horizontal growing style, a properly designed COB system can replace HID at 65-75% of watts input.

I doubt you will be able to replace the performance of the HID with less than 90% of the power input and likely, you would need more watts or ultra efficiency and many more chips at far higher startup costs in a vertical system.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
getsoutalive said:
COBs with 110 degree light output are not well suited to a design that requires light in a 360 pattern..
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And that is were the main error in your imaginary design lies, the 360 you assume is not required at all. Vertical bare bulb equates to a 360 degree light pattern. There's no reason vertical cob grows should too. People don't choose 360 when running vertical, it's a default result with bare hps. There's no valid or logical reason to apply that 360 (which by itself says nothing about vertical vs horizontal obviously) to COBs. In fact, it's dumb. Considering we tend to work in square/rectangle space, using a circle within a square is not an optimal use of space. You can use four walls in the cube surrounding the circle instead. The bare bulb vertical setup is to use the bulb and space more efficiently. Once you no longer use that bulb trying to apply that misuse of hps to led is just futile and silly.

This whole thread reads like slapstick... Both the attempt to reinvent the wheel (instead of going for top lighting in combination with inter lighting as widely applied by pros), and the desperate arguments from the led fanboys that it's not a fair comparison. The fact led is so directional and you have multiple light sources is an advantage for a vertical setup where it essentially becomes side lighting, which in case of cannabis should obviously not be the main light source. Besides that there is no valid reason to do only side lighting once you take the bulb out of the setup...

=================== access path
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ cobs side
***************************** cobs top lighting above plants
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv cobs side
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ cobs side
***************************** cobs top lighting above plants
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv cobs side
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ cobs side
***************************** cobs top lighting above plants
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv cobs side
=================== access path

That's the way to go.

Shows again how blinded folks are by the attempt to "beat hps" and how obstructing that is on a path to apply led properly. Same thing happens with normal horizontal grows... Finally you have the freedom to control the light direction and you still point them all straight down.

Pretend there never was hps, instead of building on the bare hps bulb artifact '360', and consider how the plants, not a surface horizontal or vertical, are best lit.
 
G

getsoutalive

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
And that is were the main error in your imaginary design lies.......
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It is not my design, imaginary or real. It was the design posted in the OP.

My original point, that got so very confused, was simply that a vertical HPS installation is far more efficient than the horizontal and that the COBs were in for a tough comparison.

I already agreed with most of what you just said in post #43 above. Micro COBs intra-canopy would provide maximum efficiency.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Well the OP had his car tottaled, broke his cell phone and watched his GF dog get hit by a car in a 3 day span.

So he did what any reasonable sane person would do... he said "baby, pack your shit up we are going to the desert to go dirt biking"

So 3 days of pinned 4tg and 5th gear madness in the sunshine has made things better. I have a crew trimming the harvest from our other flower room.

I will post a couple pics. I am quite pleased that some people with actual knowledge have chimmed in. I am not a newb or particularly stupid individual. Getting solid info on LED online is a TOTAL SHIT SHOW!!! From fan boys to retards to salesmen.

We grow vert, period. Why... because we get almost 4x more canopy and thus more yield. We are regulated by our flower room footprint...which the measure from the top. So basically that isnt going to change.

We have about 2 more months to decide how to build out 2 new flower rooms. Sounds like I need another ballast for a proper shootout to determine if LED is the way to go.

Quality is nice, lower enwrgy use is nice, but this is a commercial enterprise and right now is quality is great under HID so it is all about one single thing... YIELD.
 
redi jedi

redi jedi

Well-Known Member
I don't know shit about LED except they're fucking expensive. For what it would cost to outfit a room with LED equivalent to what you have now, you could probably buy another warehouse...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
legallyflying said:
Well the OP had his car tottaled, broke his cell phone and watched his GF dog get hit by a car in a 3 day span.

So he did what any reasonable sane person would do... he said "baby, pack your shit up we are going to the desert to go dirt biking"

So 3 days of pinned 4tg and 5th gear madness in the sunshine has made things better. I have a crew trimming the harvest from our other flower room.

I will post a couple pics. I am quite pleased that some people with actual knowledge have chimmed in. I am not a newb or particularly stupid individual. Getting solid info on LED online is a TOTAL SHIT SHOW!!! From fan boys to retards to salesmen.

We grow vert, period. Why... because we get almost 4x more canopy and thus more yield. We are regulated by our flower room footprint...which the measure from the top. So basically that isnt going to change.

We have about 2 more months to decide how to build out 2 new flower rooms. Sounds like I need another ballast for a proper shootout to determine if LED is the way to go.

Quality is nice, lower enwrgy use is nice, but this is a commercial enterprise and right now is quality is great under HID so it is all about one single thing... YIELD.
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Glad you're feeling better, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, large and small.

LED info is a mess in large part because it's still very new. At least some people here know wtf they're taking about and even better, they're allowed to post here without fear of retribution by the forum over fears of annoying paid sponsors. Yes, it's already happening.

I think your situation presents some unique opportunities. I look forward to seeing what you do with it!

I'm still voting for a reappearance of Nomad.
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
I held the thought that LEDs, because of their inherent directional nature might not be the best suited to vertical grows for a long time. COBs sort of changed my thoughts even though they are also directional and therefore are reflecting light, which of course inherently inefficient - the gained efficiency elsewhere could make up for that. So I am curious to see the end results on this. Does the LEDs going to the clone table mean it hasn't worked as hoped?
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Why does every keep talking about light direction? The "problem" with this particular lamp was specifically that the user thought it was pulling 800W when it was really pulling 588W. No way that can beat a DE. Just because the user decided to ignore this, doesn't mean it's not the case.

Direction has nothing to do with this. The people who keep bringing it up are totally missing the point.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
Haven't COBS been out long enough now that we should see some of this supposed killer weed? I haven't seen any quality grown COB buds, just heard a bunch of BS and Crying about me pointing it out. Every Pic I see of buds under COB's looks like shit I would make concentrates from because it has no bag appeal. I have seen them race to get to how ever GPW's makes them feel good, but what about the quality?
@REALSTYLES the circus you mentioned,was that you getting me restricted from your threads?
 
REALSTYLES

REALSTYLES

Well-Known Member
chuck estevez said:
Haven't COBS been out long enough now that we should see some of this supposed killer weed? I haven't seen any quality grown COB buds, just heard a bunch of BS and Crying about me pointing it out. Every Pic I see of buds under COB's looks like shit I would make concentrates from because it has no bag appeal. I have seen them race to get to how ever GPW's makes them feel good, but what about the quality?
@REALSTYLES the circus you mentioned,was that you getting me restricted from your threads?
Click to expand...
You haven't seen my threads just face it you are in denial.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
REALSTYLES said:
You are right that bud looks like shit lol I only got 8oz off 1 plant. You are making yourself look very foolish. Why the hate on cobs? Oh yeah you can't afford them
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I could afford to buy a led company, Not why i hate on them. You got 8 oz of low grade pot, good for you. how much did you spend to do it,LMFAO
also, good for you for attacking me personally, AGAIN, it's all you got.
 
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