Hermies, most have no idea!!!

SSGrower

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
I didn’t see it that way in this thread.
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907cannabis said:
This is the way I understood it, not that it's completely random but some strains do have more of a tendency to herm and it can be essentially bred out.

OP says early in this thread everything he's stating is just a theory then later tells me it's a fact when I challenge it, read the posts they are there.

Regardless of what protein or amino acid causes the shift, both of them are created by genetic material directly, weather it's a mutation or what it doesn't matter and it can be passed down. Look at this and correct me if I'm wrong.

View attachment 4086932

The proteins are created by the genes themselves. The amounts created and relevant sensitivities are related directly to the strain i would think.

Or maybe im just misunderstanding and in that case show me something I can understand.

Thanks everyone, keep up the good work here at RIU! Keep on growing cause that's what matters!
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907cannabis said:
Didn't mean to piss you off but look back at all your posts... I suggest that there are genes responsible for one plant being more sensitive than another and you just tell me I don't understand and that's not how it works.

I've supplied pretty decent points and articles with evidence to say that I have no clue and don't understand is an insult.

Here in this botany book where it clearly states there are two THEORIES on how cannabis sex is determined. One clearly states that there is evidence hermaphroditism is genetic and gives example.

Can you show me otherwise in literature where one of these theories is now a fact?

https://books.google.com/books?id=AoDtg_pSacwC&pg=PT201&lpg=PT201&dq=hermaphrodite+genes+cannabis&source=bl&ots=mCY5Cd6azk&sig=uHh2BHwAd1sYZFbvgBoH1zqT5ng&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC0KC_9JbZAhVR5WMKHbkEALY4HhDoATAHegQIBhAB#v=onepage&q=hermaphrodite genes cannabis&f=false
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@BudmanTX ,@hillbill

I would like your opinion's on this.

Perhaps it is a stoner myth/ bro science relic that I've been carrying around. But I think what I have could be a true genetic herm. Main reason being I did not think a plant that had been polinated would herm. It was polinated and sacs and nanners didn't appear until afterwords.
I think I read it Rosenthal s book back in the 90s but honestly have no idea where it came frome.

Similar situition happened to another user here, search there's a cracked in everything, and it should show up.

So if a female plant won't reverse if polinated by another plant. Then there must have been a genetic component causing the male flower to continue to develop because the plant should know it is no longer in a survival situation because it is carrying seeds, and the additional canibinoids and hormones that go with it?

I do not have a stress free environment, it is cool and dry. Sinice all plants don't herm in my environment there must be another fork of this puzzle that is not yet apparent.
 
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907cannabis

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure it happens, I've never seen a hermaphrodite person and I've met thousands of people, we know they exist.

Trying to find a true hermie may prove hard but not impossible. There's a reason they use 99.9% , cause it's .1% possible.

I have seen a plant that nobody out of 5 people could grow it past week 2 in flower without it being half balls. This plant also had both male and female looking pre flowers. I believe it was genetically xxxy.
 
hillbill

hillbill

Well-Known Member
People don't reproduce that way so not applicable nor are plants animals so I don't think a sober comparison can be made. I do believe that speaking too much about hermies may cause them!
 
907cannabis

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
hillbill said:
People don't reproduce that way so not applicable nor are plants animals so I don't think a sober comparison can be made. I do believe that speaking too much about hermies may cause them!
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The Dioecious Angiosperms
Silene latifolia is a dioecious species with individual plants producing either all female or all male flowers. As it is by far the best characterized dioecious species to date, our review of sex-determining mechanisms in dioecious plants will focus on this species. In male and female S. latifolia flowers, the gynoecium and androecium initiate but arrest development prematurely, leading to functionally unisexual flowers (Grant et al., 1994). The sexual phenotype of individuals is determined by sex chromosomes; males are heterogametic (XY) and females are homogametic (XX). Early cytogenetic studies of sex-determining mutants in S. latifolia led Westergaard (1946, 1958) to conclude that the Y chromosome is divided into three regions relevant to sex expression: one required for the suppression of female development and two required for the promotion of male development. None of these regions would be necessary for the development of female reproductive organs, because these functions would reside on the X or autosomal chromosomes. Additional sex-determining mutants have been generated recently by x-ray mutagenesis of pollen and selecting both hermaphrodites and asexual F1 progeny (Farbos et al., 1999; Lardon et al., 1999; Lebel-Hardenack et al., 2002). These mutants verify the earlier work of Westergaard (1946, 1958; his lines were apparently lost) and have resulted in the identification of two additional classes of mutants, those that are not Y linked and hermaphroditic and those that are Y linked and asexual. The hermaphroditic deletion mutants are likely to contain a gene(s) necessary for the female-suppressing function, whereas the asexual deletion mutants likely contain the male-promoting gene(s). Genetic screens to identify mutant XX hermaphrodites or asexuals have not been reported. Although these sex-determining genes have not been cloned, the construction of an amplified fragment length polymorphism map of the Y chromosome using lines deleted for overlapping regions of the Y chromosome will be useful for genetic and physical mapping of the sex-determining mutants (Lebel-Hardenack et al., 2002) and may ultimately lead to their cloning.

Xx and xy chromosomes are found in plants and mammals aren't they? Sure sounds like it. Although sex determination can be quite complicated it doesn't mean it's not genetic at all.

Show me otherwise.
 
907cannabis

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
A very studied topic but I'd like to see someone's evidence that hermes have no genetic influence at all.

Breed with hermies get more hermies. Breed male and female get more male and female...... Something is being passed down the line.
 
907cannabis

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
I said I've never met a hermie but I have met a real born male with xx chromosomes. These things are rare but not unheard of.

"There are pretty obvious differences between plants and animals, but – at the chemical level – the cells of all plants and all animals contain DNA in the same shape – the famous “double helix” that looks like a twisted ladder. What’s more, all DNA molecules – in both plants and animals – are made from the same four chemical building blocks – called nucleotides."

There are instances where plants and animals share dna in the wild.

We are very much the same.
 
dtl420

dtl420

Well-Known Member
907cannabis said:
I'm pretty sure it happens, I've never seen a hermaphrodite person and I've met thousands of people, we know they exist.

Trying to find a true hermie may prove hard but not impossible. There's a reason they use 99.9% , cause it's .1% possible.

I have seen a plant that nobody out of 5 people could grow it past week 2 in flower without it being half balls. This plant also had both male and female looking pre flowers. I believe it was genetically xxxy.
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Same thing happened to me once. 4 fem seeds and one had both male and female preflowers before I'd even thought about flowering them.. There was no stress which caused it, it just happened (to my knowledge) naturally. I've think that some are quicker to switch genders, some are naturally both, and some are pretty fucking dead set on being female. I had one that I intentionally tried to hermi in order to get some fem seeds, but nothing I did seemed to push it to that point, never produced pollen.

That being said, I did top the one I had believed to be naturally hermaphroditic.. Perhaps even that was beyond the genetic threshold which caused the plant to hit the panic switch, even in veg.. I've never actually done any real research on the topic, but I have mulled it over in my head a lot while contemplating the genetic science behind cannabis.
 
dtl420

dtl420

Well-Known Member
907cannabis said:
I said I've never met a hermie but I have met a real born male with xx chromosomes. These things are rare but not unheard of.

"There are pretty obvious differences between plants and animals, but – at the chemical level – the cells of all plants and all animals contain DNA in the same shape – the famous “double helix” that looks like a twisted ladder. What’s more, all DNA molecules – in both plants and animals – are made from the same four chemical building blocks – called nucleotides."

We are very much the same.
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My sister is a nurse, and I spend a lot of time reading about botany and plant physiology. We have often times had really good discussions about how surprisingly similar we are to plants. Perhaps it's just life in general. It has all evolved to coincide with the laws of physics and chemistry. Either way, it is very cool and humbling to see life from the chemical prospective. Everything that poses life is a machine...I'm too stoned for this...lol
 
907cannabis

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
I think the conclusion has been found here be it fact or not.

Cannabis is still in the process of evolving from a completely hermaphrodite species to a dioecious species. This means there will be strains leaning hard to both sides of the spectrum and should eventually make the jump to a fully male/female separated organism. This also means there will be true hermaphroditism eventually I would think if it hasn't happened already.

I have plants on both ends of the spectrum, first time ever in my life I've seen a plant like this show male and female so strongly and early but it's still probably not a true hermie.

I also have female plants that don't mind a lot of stress, temp swings from upper 40's to mid 80's/light stress u name it and she never once gives a seed or even a banana.
 
SSGrower

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
hillbill said:
People don't reproduce that way so not applicable nor are plants animals so I don't think a sober comparison can be made. I do believe that speaking too much about hermies may cause them!
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I posted my thoughts in the thread I referenced a little more than a week before I saw it in my own garden, so you could be on to something.
 
dtl420

dtl420

Well-Known Member
907cannabis said:
I think the conclusion has been found here be it fact or not.

Cannabis is still in the process of evolving from a completely hermaphrodite species to a dioecious species. This means there will be strains leaning hard to both sides of the spectrum and should eventually make the jump to a fully male/female separated organism. This also means there will be true hermaphroditism eventually I would think if it hasn't happened already.

I have plants on both ends of the spectrum, first time ever in my life I've seen a plant like this show male and female so strongly and early but it's still probably not a true hermie.

I also have female plants that don't mind a lot of stress, temp swings from upper 40's to mid 80's/light stress u name it and she never once gives a seed or even a banana.
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I'm not sure that it would ever be truly bred out of the species. Breeders will always produce fem seeds which rely on the plants ability to switch genders.
 
dtl420

dtl420

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Most recent hermie threads i recommend to carry on growing rather than the redundant 'burn the fucker with fire' response. I can say that all grows have turned out quite alright and that some of you need to re-adjust you knowledge on this subject.

Seems that actual experience is quite different to what most seem to regurgitate. I wouldn't care but its something you can expand on rather than just recommending people kill plants. Again i seem to differ from most on the subject but i simply put it down to having some good experience and skill with growng....!
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Started commenting here before ever reading the original post, sorry. The questionably "natural" hermi I mentioned above was put in a separate chamber and flowered under cfl's. Plucked all the naners and had seedless weed. It may just be because it was the first plant I harvested and was really excited about it, but I remember it being the most potent of the 4 or them.. Killing it was never an option to me. My first ever grow was a full blown male, and I kept it a live as a learning experience.
 
907cannabis

907cannabis

Well-Known Member
dtl420 said:
I'm not sure that it would ever be truly bred out of the species. Breeders will always produce fem seeds which rely on the plants ability to switch genders.
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I didn't mean like bred out entirely,
Just on one end of the spectrum, like plants that are more dioecious. It will always have the ability to be switched chemically, even humans can be switched chemically. We all have an X chromosome correct? It's the Y chromosome that supposedly is responsible for males, except there can be xx male humans look it up. So we are all essentially female with a male expression, there are no yy males, this means there can be hermies anywhere in nature where the xy chromosome system is used correct?
 
T

toomp

Well-Known Member
Odin* said:
The "theory" is based on my inadvertent "discovery" that led to the "expirements", which confirms that my method of identifying "hermies" in veg is accurate, reliable, and repeatable.

The "theory" is irrelevant here. Regardless of whether or not my "theory" is correct, the method for "exposing" plants that will produce nuts and/or "banana fingers" within the bud has proven to produce the same results on the known "hermies" time, and time again (3 test runs so far).

I've got a decent number of packs to pop, more on the way. If this proves true beyond La Plata, Karma, and Krockett, I'll share with those I "know" (who ask) via PM.

I'll also drop this here now to aid in validity (when I verify further and share via PM); I have posted a vague reference to this prior (with pic). That post/pic will be referenced in the PM. It's worthless without method (unless one has inadvertently done the same and recognizes it).
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So Durango og is unstable?
 
G

goldberg71b

Well-Known Member
Odin* said:
The "theory" is based on my inadvertent "discovery" that led to the "expirements", which confirms that my method of identifying "hermies" in veg is accurate, reliable, and repeatable.

The "theory" is irrelevant here. Regardless of whether or not my "theory" is correct, the method for "exposing" plants that will produce nuts and/or "banana fingers" within the bud has proven to produce the same results on the known "hermies" time, and time again (3 test runs so far).

I've got a decent number of packs to pop, more on the way. If this proves true beyond La Plata, Karma, and Krockett, I'll share with those I "know" (who ask) via PM.

I'll also drop this here now to aid in validity (when I verify further and share via PM); I have posted a vague reference to this prior (with pic). That post/pic will be referenced in the PM. It's worthless without method (unless one has inadvertently done the same and recognizes it).
Click to expand...
Are we ready to share this yet?
 
tyke1973

tyke1973

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Most recent hermie threads i recommend to carry on growing rather than the redundant 'burn the fucker with fire' response. I can say that all grows have turned out quite alright and that some of you need to re-adjust you knowledge on this subject.

Seems that actual experience is quite different to what most seem to regurgitate. I wouldn't care but its something you can expand on rather than just recommending people kill plants. Again i seem to differ from most on the subject but i simply put it down to having some good experience and skill with growng....!
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The thing about plants turning Hermie,is Most of the time ,they turn later on in the grow,and a few seeds never hurt no one.I had a few beans in my last grow ,Noticed the pollen sacks on the strawberry glue ,got about 20/30 seeds in the whole crop.I never use seeds that have been got from a Feminized seed grown plant ,but if it was reg that had turned I would use them for sure.If I noticed that the plant had male pollen sacks real early in a grow ,I would pull that plant out the room.
 
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