Help please! Problems always start at 2 weeks with FFHF!

Hi there! I posted a few times in regards to this problem but I still can't seem to get around it.

I have four Autoflower plants growing in 4 gallon containers. They are in a blend of fox farm Happy Frog, perlite, & worm castings. I blended the Happy Frog with about 30% perlite and added in about 20 cups of worm castings. Then, I made a fist-sized hole in the center and filled it with worm castings and place the germinated seed directly in the worm castings. They seemed to flourish in the worm castings and then at about day 10 to 14 Day begin to exhibit problems.

They were planted on different dates and each one has developed these problems on the same timeline.

The problem starts with the tips of the bottom leaves beginning to bend down and get soft and then very quickly there after they begin to turn brown and dry up. from there the plant begins to take on more of a yellow Hue with the veining remaining dark. After that has growing seems to really slow down.

I am watering with well water from our own well on our property. I have not been pH adjusting since Happy Frog is pH adjusted already. My well water PH comes out at about 7. They are under a spider farmer SF 2000 light that is at about 30 inch away from them. Temperatures are staying around 75 degrees with humidity right at about 50%.

I am wondering if the problem is once the fruits move out of the worm castings and into the Happy Frog mix. However from what I have read, Happy Frog is not too hot for seedlings. Could it just be that my autoflowers are more finicky? They are different varieties so it would have to be every variety that is sensitive. And if the happy frog is too hot, what can I do as I'm afraid to "flush" while growing in such large containers and risk flushing out all of the oxygen, too.

I'm confused about why you would start the seeds in pure worm castings. I've never heard of this method before so I'm curious if this method is the cause of your issues. Your leaves look like they are suffering from nutrient burn, but they are also really light green (maybe just the lighting?), so hopefully someone else with more experience than me will chime in with some advice.

They look like they're starving, feed em.

I also just noticed that you said you aren't pH adjusting and your well water is coming out at 7pH? That right there is probably your issue. Seedlings do better in much lower pH. I start my seeds in water as low as 5.5pH and then work them up to 6.0pH - 6.5pH throughout the seedling stage.

TreeFarmerCharlie said:

I'm confused about why you would start the seeds in pure worm castings. I've never heard of this method before so I'm curious if this method is the cause of your issues. Your leaves look like they are suffering from nutrient burn, but they are also really light green (maybe just the lighting?), so hopefully someone else with more experience than me will chime in with some advice.

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I started in the worm castings after watching a YouTube video of someone documenting their entire grow with a start like that. They used a living soil but started the germinated seed in about a cups worth of worm castings. They said that they're seedlings thrived and when they began to get older they were ready for the nutrients in the soil. From my experience, my seedlings did really fantastic in the worm castings. It almost seems like once their Roots moved beyond the castings is when the trouble began. But I am no expert by any means! It would seem to me that if the worm castings were the problems the plants would have suffered from the onset rather than 10 to 14 days after germinating.

And I agree! They look like they are burnt and deficient at the same time! A few days before they began to show deficiencies or burn, they were a darker green and a solid color across the entire leaf span.

TreeFarmerCharlie said:

I also just noticed that you said you aren't pH adjusting and your well water is coming out at 7pH? That right there is probably your issue. Seedlings do better in much lower pH. I start my seeds in water as low as 5.5pH and then work them up to 6.0pH - 6.5pH throughout the seedling stage.

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I'm not ph'ing because happy frog is ph adjusted and you aren't supposed to ph. I can cut the well water with RO water that has a lower ph and bring it down though!

Corso312 said:

They look like they're starving, feed em.

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They appear pale and hungry but how do you account for the brown tips? And at the very least, Happy Frog is supposed to carry seedlings nutrient wise for 3 weeks. These plants are very small and I can't imagine that they are using up all the nutrients that are available in the soil already.

Corso312 said:

They look like they're starving, feed em.

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This....

They are light green from not having enough nutrients. Is that new soil? You are right, they SHOULD have enough nutrients, but for some reason they are not. Maybe the ph is too out of whack and causing a lock up. Or maybe your well water is high in something bad...have you used it before to grow with?

They look really dry too. I see water around the plant, but the outer part of your container looks dryer than a popcorn fart.

Pyreonfire said:

I'm not ph'ing because happy frog is ph adjusted and you aren't supposed to ph. I can cut the well water with RO water that has a lower ph and bring it down though!

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IMO, it's still best to keep your water as close to the acceptable range as possible. Soil blends can only buffer the pH for so long and don't forget that adding perlite and worm castings is going to reduce the pH buffering effectiveness.

Pyreonfire said:

They appear pale and hungry but how do you account for the brown tips? And at the very least, Happy Frog is supposed to carry seedlings nutrient wise for 3 weeks. These plants are very small and I can't imagine that they are using up all the nutrients that are available in the soil already.

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If it was supposed to be good for three weeks why did you add worm castings?
The soil was balanced to do something and changing it only messed it up. IMO. I use FFOF sometimes and it’s plain tap water no ph for about 4 weeks. Lower Ph tap water killed my seedlings one after another when I first started. Plain tap worked for me. Ph was about 8 or 9 I think

I'd try the RO water with some calmag added for now and see what happens. Water around the outside of the pot to force the roots to come get it!

manfredo said:

I'd try the RO water with some calmag added for now and see what happens. Water around the outside of the pot to force the roots to come get it!

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Happy Frog is already ammended with oyster shells and dolomite lime so they probably wouldn't need to use calmag in the RO water. A small dose of it would make it easier to adjust the pH of the RO water, though.

For what its worth I think there was something wrong with the last bag of HF i got. Clones didnt burn they were just majorly stunted. I literally just pulled them last night and when looking at rootballs it was like roots had only grown on the outside of the pot. I had a few others that I just used OF for and those are doing fine. I am pretty sure I bought that bag off Amazon so figured maybe it was sitting in a warehouse for a long time or something and went bad?

manfredo said:

This....

They are light green from not having enough nutrients. Is that new soil? You are right, they SHOULD have enough nutrients, but for some reason they are not. Maybe the ph is too out of whack and causing a lock up. Or maybe your well water is high in something bad...have you used it before to grow with?

They look really dry too. I see water around the plant, but the outer part of your container looks dryer than a popcorn fart.

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Yes, it is new soil. And no, I haven't grown cannabis with well water, but I grow about 20 various house plants with it. So, perhaps that is the problem. Would you suggest that I cut it with RO water to bring the ph down and also dilute the minerals in the well water?

And well, it looks dry around the outside because it is, haha. I didn't want to soak the entire pot since they are so small.

TreeFarmerCharlie said:

IMO, it's still best to keep your water as close to the acceptable range as possible. Soil blends can only buffer the pH for so long and don't forget that adding perlite and worm castings is going to reduce the pH buffering effectiveness.

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Ok, well, I can start mixing RO and well water to get the proper PH from here on out. I didn't account for the fact that perlite and worm castings would affect the PH. Thank you for pointing that out. Would you suggest just watering with a proper PH from here on out to correct?

Pyreonfire said:

Yes, it is new soil. And no, I haven't grown cannabis with well water, but I grow about 20 various house plants with it. So, perhaps that is the problem. Would you suggest that I cut it with RO water to bring the ph down and also dilute the minerals in the well water?

And well, it looks dry around the outside because it is, haha. I didn't want to soak the entire pot since they are so small.

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Have you ever had your well water tested? If not then it may be worth having it tested to see what you are working with first.

Wattzzup said:

If it was supposed to be good for three weeks why did you add worm castings?
The soil was balanced to do something and changing it only messed it up. IMO. I use FFOF sometimes and it’s plain tap water no ph for about 4 weeks. Lower Ph tap water killed my seedlings one after another when I first started. Plain tap worked for me. Ph was about 8 or 9 I think

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I added worm castings, well.. because all of the videos and threads on forums add worm castings and tout it as being just amazing. I suppose I thought I was making the Happy from even better. So, next time no worm castings and just the perlite? For this grow, however, do you have any suggestions?

TreeFarmerCharlie said:

Have you ever had your well water tested? If not then it may be worth having it tested to see what you are working with first.

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I have, yes. Here are the details: (I also have RO water at my disposal that I can cut it with to bring the mineral content and PH down, so that's an option if these numbers are too out of wack.

ph 7
hardness 332
tds 250
calcium 84
magnesium 30
potassium 5
sulfate 53
sodium 7
chloride 19
copper .01
manganese .17
Zinc .01
iron .28
electrical conductivity .49

Pyreonfire said:

Ok, well, I can start mixing RO and well water to get the proper PH from here on out. I didn't account for the fact that perlite and worm castings would affect the PH. Thank you for pointing that out. Would you suggest just watering with a proper PH from here on out to correct?

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I personally pH my water just for the peace of mind and because it only takes a minute to do. I don't know how much perlite or castings actually affect the pH. What I was getting at was that adding all that increases your overall volume and that will cut back the ratio of the soil amendments (ph buffers) that help the soil stay within a certain pH range.

I use soil straight out of the bag. Good organic soil for cannabis will need no additives. They designed it to work like that.

I would research some soil that sounds good and make a decision. Let the soil do the work.

for now water only until You get readings about what’s going on in the soil.