HELP! BUD GROWTH SLOWING DOWN - BODHI GRANOLA FUNK

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dhiz

Member
Dr. Who said:
Over "defoliated"
Under powered ("blurple" LEDs don't bloom to potential for shit) lighting

Patience here is part of the story.

Drop that "bloom booster" now or suffer lower THC levels (K and Mg reduce final THC counts) So that means NO extra K or Mg after week 6 ,, PERIOD!

Bottom line. While your buds will be nice and tight (if you can manage waiting that long). They will not be exactly "big". Defoliation was part of that issue, lighting the other.

LED's, GOOD one's (COB). Are expensive and work best for shorter standing plants, SOG and SCROG. So, they would fit you well.

Your adding a Ca/Mg to soil? You can stop that now too. In fact your way over doing it nutrient wise, as far as how many and what for.

The G&H 3 part was enough. You just need to learn how to balance them to the proper NPK value for the plants age in each stage of growth..I prefer the Botanicare KIND line....Stupidly simple and you "need" nothing else. Save the enhancing of tric's and terps for later. Dial in your plants needs by strain..

Next part is that 98% of all breeder listed growth times...Are 2 weeks "plus" slow.....You, as a general rule, add 2 weeks to the bloom period....

Lastly; You never finish buy a "length of time" or a "day count". I understand this is something you have to learn but, You harvest by "look". Some strains do not amber much, some not at all. So, that's not the best way to judge either....It is a big part of it...

You have around 5-6 weeks or even more to go!

Good Luck
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the info ( a lot of info lol). COB LED is something I want but already have these LED lights and cant justify buying any more lol. COB is the next purchase.

I am adding Calmag to the watering. Should i stop this completely during flower? I have the nutes down for vegg but flower is a whole different beast. I attached the pdf of the general hyrdroponics feeding schedule and I have been following that.

I was looking at something simple too, is there a different Botanicare KIND line for just vegg and one for flower. That would be nice.

Ive been reading that the 2 weeks is additional is spot on. Most of the breeders give the flower dates based on when they start seeing pistols. IF that's the case, I am probably into week 3 of flower.

I tried using the scope and waiting till the trics turn cloudly and the hairs turning red. Is that a good base to start on?

Thanks for reply broskie.
 
D

dhiz

Member
dhiz said:
Thanks for all the info ( a lot of info lol). COB LED is something I want but already have these LED lights and cant justify buying any more lol. COB is the next purchase.

I am adding Calmag to the watering. Should i stop this completely during flower? I have the nutes down for vegg but flower is a whole different beast. I attached the pdf of the general hyrdroponics feeding schedule and I have been following that.

I was looking at something simple too, is there a different Botanicare KIND line for just vegg and one for flower. That would be nice.

Ive been reading that the 2 weeks is additional is spot on. Most of the breeders give the flower dates based on when they start seeing pistols. IF that's the case, I am probably into week 3 of flower.

I tried using the scope and waiting till the trics turn cloudly and the hairs turning red. Is that a good base to start on?

Thanks for reply broskie.
Click to expand...
 

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Ryante55

Well-Known Member
dhiz said:
Which nutes would you keep? I found a lot of good/bad reviews on those BESTVA LED lights. As for the power draw, I agree, it is pulling about 500 to 600W which should be good enough for 1 plant correct?
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Go with powder nutes I use Jack's I really like it and it's super cheap. It depends how big the plant is with those led you want 40-50w per square foot so they won't cover your 5x5. You have enough light to cover like half your tent. If you have some extra cash get a 300w light from tastyled, hlg, or rapidled put that in the middle with your current led around it you would get much better growth your probably seeing growth slow because they need more light at this stage of their life
 
D

dhiz

Member
Ryante55 said:
Go with powder nutes I use Jack's I really like it and it's super cheap. It depends how big the plant is with those led you want 40-50w per square foot so they won't cover your 5x5. You have enough light to cover like half your tent. If you have some extra cash get a 300w light from tastyled, hlg, or rapidled put that in the middle with your current led around it you would get much better growth your probably seeing growth slow because they need more light at this stage of their life
Click to expand...
The plant is scrogged in a 5 x 5 tent but is only using up about 3.5 x 3.5. I will look into Jacks.
 
Smitty42088

Smitty42088

Well-Known Member
dhiz said:
Read a lot of forums saying defoliate for bigger nugs since the fan leaves cover up the bud sites. Do you think its better to not defoliate?
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Its fine to defoliate but I do most of mine during veg so they have time to bounce back from the stress especially if you pick ALOT of leaves as it looks like you did.Idk I just feel it’s better to stress them during veg than in bloom cause the last thing you wanna do is slow down bud production right...Its prolly just gonna take a minute to bounce back man give it time be patient that’s all you can do now.I feel your scrog could have been a little more even as well as you have a lot of buds under the net growing instead of on top even with the others but I’m by no means a pro lmao just an opinion other than that man I reckon it looks pretty good.Practice makes perfect right!!Give it time and see what happens..
 
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
dhiz said:
Read a lot of forums saying defoliate for bigger nugs since the fan leaves cover up the bud sites. Do you think its better to not defoliate?
Click to expand...
NOT!
Leaves covering bud sites? Buds don't need light to form and grow. Light on them will allow for more density. STRONGER (more intensity) light delivery will bring on bigger buds.
Light on buds, WILL help them ripen properly (in a more uniform way).
I have a few strains that I'll harvest in steps or layers....This allows the lower, unripe buds to ripen and finish. Each layer takes another 2 weeks.
I do grow larger size plants.
 
D

dhiz

Member
Smitty42088 said:
Its fine to defoliate but I do most of mine during veg so they have time to bounce back from the stress especially if you pick ALOT of leaves as it looks like you did.Idk I just feel it’s better to stress them during veg than in bloom cause the last thing you wanna do is slow down bud production right...Its prolly just gonna take a minute to bounce back man give it time be patient that’s all you can do now.I feel your scrog could have been a little more even as well as you have a lot of buds under the net growing instead of on top even with the others but I’m by no means a pro lmao just an opinion other than that man I reckon it looks pretty good.Practice makes perfect right!!Give it time and see what happens..
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Thanks for the advise. I defoliated day 1 of when I switched to 12/12 and it bounced back pretty good, then again at day 18. Perhaps I don't do the day 18?

The smell is dannkkkkkkkkkkk and its lookin decent, just not as big as others like XTSHO just showed me that is the size of a beer bottle. Mine is probably the size of a shooter of vodka. The growth is slowing down though, but if I go off the recommended flower time of 8 weeks after I see pistols come out, then this is the beginning of week 4 and the size isn't too bad for week 4????? Not sure, not a seasoned grower but just trying to stock up for the winter lol.
 
D

dhiz

Member
xtsho said:
Big buds need leaves to provide energy to grow. If you want those big huge cola's that don't fit in a quart jar you want leaves.

3 gallon fabric pots 100% coco. 600 watt HPS 4 x 4 tent. Big buds come from lots of engines providing horsepower. And good genetics.

Click to expand...

DAMNNNN!!!!!! that is nice!!! Any recommendations of the nutrient feeding for flower? I am hearing Kind and Jacks is good but it would be great if I could get a recipe that one of the OG's could share.
 
D

dhiz

Member
Dr. Who said:
NOT!
Leaves covering bud sites? Buds don't need light to form and grow. Light on them will allow for more density. STRONGER (more intensity) light delivery will bring on bigger buds.
Light on buds, WILL help them ripen properly (in a more uniform way).
I have a few strains that I'll harvest in steps or layers....This allows the lower, unripe buds to ripen and finish. Each layer takes another 2 weeks.
I do grow larger size plants.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing, I should stagger my harvest. If I do that, and I flush the last 2 weeks before I pull my first top layer, do I have to go back to feeding nutes and then flush again or just keep feeding water?

Thanks
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
dhiz said:
Thanks for all the info ( a lot of info lol). COB LED is something I want but already have these LED lights and cant justify buying any more lol. COB is the next purchase.

I am adding Calmag to the watering. Should i stop this completely during flower? I have the nutes down for vegg but flower is a whole different beast. I attached the pdf of the general hyrdroponics feeding schedule and I have been following that.

I was looking at something simple too, is there a different Botanicare KIND line for just vegg and one for flower. That would be nice.

Ive been reading that the 2 weeks is additional is spot on. Most of the breeders give the flower dates based on when they start seeing pistols. IF that's the case, I am probably into week 3 of flower.

I tried using the scope and waiting till the trics turn cloudly and the hairs turning red. Is that a good base to start on?

Thanks for reply broskie.
Click to expand...
Ca/Mg supplementing is for RO water.....

No, the KIND line is 3 bottles - period. You use differing amounts of them and only 2 at a time for each stage.

Examples of per gallon mix rates:
For heavy feeders in bloom....10 ml of each, BASE and BLOOM.
For lighter N feeders In bloom.....7.5 ml of BASE and 10 ml of BLOOM.

In Veg....I use a pre charged soil that runs plants for 30 days....In solo cups they get water. Once they go into 1 gallon pots they get 10 ml GROW and that's all...
Some heavy feeders get 2.5 to 3 ml base and 10 ml Grow.

Some strains can be Mg hungry. You have to learn to see that and add some Mg for them. I generally have no need to add Mg in bloom. (I do a supplementing of a Mg sulfate and a K sulfate to increase trich and terp production. VERY much a learned thing...application of plant science.) For now, you need to learn to dial in your strains for feeding rates...THEN once you have them down pat, and repeating quality on every run. THEN start trying specific chemical supplementation.

"Seeing" a "done" plant and I mean PROPERLY done. Is an ART that you have to learn.

Like I said. Some strains don't amber much, if at all. You need to have time under your belt to "see" done, in strains like this...
There are several ways I look for that.
Are they stacking "good" foxtails? Pretty good clue that a non ambering strain is close to or just about to finish..Daily checking for hat "finished" look...

Go 2 extra weeks and then start trying longer.....You may be surprised at how long a "true" finish takes...
Growing conditions (environment) dictate run times more then and # of breeder given days... His definition of "finished" maybe different then mine.

"I" grow for max potential of the strain. I want to grow it out to the best it's genetic traits allow. Highest THC content,,max bud size and density, etc.
 
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jtrizzy

jtrizzy

Well-Known Member
I’ve been reading a lot of people don’t even flush. Apparently flushing is an old technique used but not needed? Not sure if everyone agrees with that. I guessed it’s mixed opinions on flushing.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
dhiz said:
I was thinking the same thing, I should stagger my harvest. If I do that, and I flush the last 2 weeks before I pull my first top layer, do I have to go back to feeding nutes and then flush again or just keep feeding water?

Thanks
Click to expand...
FLUSHING IS A MYTH!

You CAN NOT "flush" nutrients from a plant.....SCIENTIFIC FACT! Old school hippy logic garbage.....(I should be careful, I'm an old school guy myself)

Simply use plain water for the last week or so....I tend to do that for about the last 10 days.....There will be enough nutrients retained in the soil to carry her out.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
HERE READ this about flushing. Yes I wrote it..

The thing is, NOTHING in agriculture gets 'flushed" and that leads to little to no research in the area. You see, the thing is, the whole "idea" of "flushing is nonsense! Plants don't work that way! They do not take up nutrients or salts as most of you think of them! They do not "store" them in the sense you think of them! Not only that, but the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers! NO amount of "flushing" will "exchange" plant "stored" nutrition back "out" of the plant! Scientifically impossible by the way most of you guys understand......Ok, that's my word on "flushing". (No one listens to this in threads if they don't want to hear it or accept it.)

Now then, you propose the "FADE TO FINISH" method. Great idea in theory but, and this IS a BIG BUT! Remember when I said above that "the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers!" ? This shoots that theory in the ass right away. You see the main amount of stored nutrition is in either the roots and the rest in leaves and some in small amounts in transit in the phloam (the sap that actually moves the nutrients around the plant)......

Now when you "starve a plant" it will draw from it's self by actually breaking down the needed parts of it's self to do an "emergency" attempt to reproduce! (This can happen in certain plants even in veg! A kind of last ditch effort to continue the species.)

With that in mind you take the fact that the plant is not "moving" nutrients "out" of buds, but into them to speed growth and as fast as it can - "reproduce". This single minded process the plant now puts it's self on causes the plant to stress it's self. This self induced stress can, in many cases if done long enough, lead the plant to go bisexual, and produce "banana's" in a last ditch effort to reproduce and "carry on the line" and produce seeds...

Basically put, In reality you are moving nutrients that you're "attempting" to get rid of,,right to where your trying to remove them from! You are also stressing the plant in the way for "Herming" to actually happen easier!

I and many others that have tried to convey this actual plant science, are called everything you can think of and those 'impossible of understanding these facts", fight so hard against us that many of us have simply chosen to avoid the issue or don't fight to hard.

Anyway, there you are in as short and sweet and as simple/understandable as I can...

The thing is you have to understand Botany and Horticulture (and there are LOTS of subsections to those that are involved here) to truly put together the pieces of the puzzle to get your head wrapped around the idea that flushing and the "fade" don't work for what they are intended or alleged to actually do!

There you go Mods, nice, polite and to the point. (Sorry about the other thread Sunni)

There you go, Now have at it!
I'm stepping back to watch the circus.

Read this too!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/
 
vostok

vostok

Well-Known Member
jtrizzy said:
I’ve been reading a lot of people don’t even flush. Apparently flushing is an old technique used but not needed? Not sure if everyone agrees with that. I guessed it’s mixed opinions on flushing.
Click to expand...
for non soil I'd flush for organics ...me I don't flush my dental filling need not that polish ...lol
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
HERE READ this about flushing. Yes I wrote it..

The thing is, NOTHING in agriculture gets 'flushed" and that leads to little to no research in the area. You see, the thing is, the whole "idea" of "flushing is nonsense! Plants don't work that way! They do not take up nutrients or salts as most of you think of them! They do not "store" them in the sense you think of them! Not only that, but the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers! NO amount of "flushing" will "exchange" plant "stored" nutrition back "out" of the plant! Scientifically impossible by the way most of you guys understand......Ok, that's my word on "flushing". (No one listens to this in threads if they don't want to hear it or accept it.)

Now then, you propose the "FADE TO FINISH" method. Great idea in theory but, and this IS a BIG BUT! Remember when I said above that "the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers!" ? This shoots that theory in the ass right away. You see the main amount of stored nutrition is in either the roots and the rest in leaves and some in small amounts in transit in the phloam (the sap that actually moves the nutrients around the plant)......

Now when you "starve a plant" it will draw from it's self by actually breaking down the needed parts of it's self to do an "emergency" attempt to reproduce! (This can happen in certain plants even in veg! A kind of last ditch effort to continue the species.)

With that in mind you take the fact that the plant is not "moving" nutrients "out" of buds, but into them to speed growth and as fast as it can - "reproduce". This single minded process the plant now puts it's self on causes the plant to stress it's self. This self induced stress can, in many cases if done long enough, lead the plant to go bisexual, and produce "banana's" in a last ditch effort to reproduce and "carry on the line" and produce seeds...

Basically put, In reality you are moving nutrients that you're "attempting" to get rid of,,right to where your trying to remove them from! You are also stressing the plant in the way for "Herming" to actually happen easier!

I and many others that have tried to convey this actual plant science, are called everything you can think of and those 'impossible of understanding these facts", fight so hard against us that many of us have simply chosen to avoid the issue or don't fight to hard.

Anyway, there you are in as short and sweet and as simple/understandable as I can...

The thing is you have to understand Botany and Horticulture (and there are LOTS of subsections to those that are involved here) to truly put together the pieces of the puzzle to get your head wrapped around the idea that flushing and the "fade" don't work for what they are intended or alleged to actually do!

There you go Mods, nice, polite and to the point. (Sorry about the other thread Sunni)

There you go, Now have at it!
I'm stepping back to watch the circus.

Read this too!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/
Click to expand...
you're wasting your breath. i've told so many people the exact same thing, and it's like they have a brick wall between them and the truth, they just keep smashing against it like a bug trying to get to a light.
i took your information over a year ago, read up on it, found it to be completely accurate, and took it to heart, even though i was already leaning that way. i didn't take anything for granted, i looked it up myself. and it's 100% accurate.
flushing is a waste of time at the best, and counter productive to your desired goal at worst.
 
D

dhiz

Member
Dr. Who said:
Ca/Mg supplementing is for RO water.....

No, the KIND line is 3 bottles - period. You use differing amounts of them and only 2 at a time for each stage.

Examples of per gallon mix rates:
For heavy feeders in bloom....10 ml of each, BASE and BLOOM.
For lighter N feeders In bloom.....7.5 ml of BASE and 10 ml of BLOOM.

In Veg....I use a pre charged soil that runs plants for 30 days....In solo cups they get water. Once they go into 1 gallon pots they get 10 ml GROW and that's all...
Some heavy feeders get 2.5 to 3 ml base and 10 ml Grow.

Some strains can be Mg hungry. You have to learn to see that and add some Mg for them. I generally have no need to add Mg in bloom. (I do a supplementing of a Mg sulfate and a K sulfate to increase trich and terp production. VERY much a learned thing...application of plant science.) For now, you need to learn to dial in your strains for feeding rates...THEN once you have them down pat, and repeating quality on every run. THEN start trying specific chemical supplementation.

"Seeing" a "done" plant and I mean PROPERLY done. Is an ART that you have to learn.

Like I said. Some strains don't amber much, if at all. You need to have time under your belt to "see" done, in strains like this...
There are several ways I look for that.
Are they stacking "good" foxtails? Pretty good clue that a non ambering strain is close to or just about to finish..Daily checking for hat "finished" look...

Go 2 extra weeks and then start trying longer.....You may be surprised at how long a "true" finish takes...
Growing conditions (environment) dictate run times more then and # of breeder given days... His definition of "finished" maybe different then mine.

"I" grow for max potential of the strain. I want to grow it out to the best it's genetic traits allow. Highest THC content,,max bud size and density, etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks a bunch for the tips. My general hydro nutes are about out and I will try the Kind 3 bottle and see if I can dial in flower. My vegg is on point but flower is where I needed some help.

I will go the extra 2 weeks and then see how it looks, mostly going off the trics. I am trying to upload a quick video so you can see the canopy but the file size is too big. Let me see where I can upload and post.
 
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