Health care

medicineman

New Member
National Health Insurance Now, Not Later
By Stephen Fleischman, AlterNet. Posted February 2, 2007.


Health care costs continue to skyrocket, and 47 million people remain uninsured. Sooner, if not later, the system will crash. Must we wait for that to happen?
Who's afraid of the single payer health plan, otherwise known as National Health Insurance? Big Pharma and the medical establishment, that's who -- because "single payer" is the big bad wolf that's huffing and puffing and is about to blow their house down. And it's a big house, bloated by excess profits, government subsidies and sheer theft of the people's money.
To paraphrase our former President, Richard Nixon, "you're not going to have America's healthcare system to kick around forever."
Health Insurance has been a political football in this country for decades. It's been on every politician's laundry list, in one form or another, in every election. There have been employer plans; there have been government plans; city, state and federal plans. It's been brought up again and again in every State of the Union address, year after year. Despite all the talk and attention by both parties, census figures show that a record 46.6 million Americans, including 8.3 million children, have no health insurance at all, at a time when the cost of health care has gone through the roof. How can they afford to see a doctor or fill a prescription?
Are we going to go on talking the talk and getting ripped off by Big Insurance forever? Why can't we have what every other industrialized nation in the world enjoys -- some form of national health insurance?
That may be the first question some Democratic Congressman or Senator may ask now that they have a majority in both houses of Congress -- but I doubt it.
A look back at the endless squabble over health care in this country will reveal where this timidity comes from. It all began with the bug-a-boo of "Socialized Medicine" raised by the American Medical Association after World War II when they saw their "fee-for-service" system being threatened. The system was: You go to the doctor, you get a service and you pay a fee; and that's the way they wanted to keep it, by God!
But after the war, something new was blowin' in the wind. People like Henry Kaiser, the auto maker and ship builder, came up with a Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) for his employees. You pay a small monthly fee, you get your entire medical and hospital needs free of any other charges.
The city of New York jumped right in with HIP (Health Insurance Plan of Greater New York), a pre-paid health plan for city employees. "Socialized medicine!" screamed the AMA. Physicians and surgeons manned the battle stations. Many saw their seven figure incomes taking flight.
Other HMOs mushroomed around the country. And then, in 1965, President Lyndon Johnson made "medical care for the aged" part of his Great Society package. We know it today as Medicare. Then came Medicaid, medical care for the indigent. The flood gates were opened. For the first time, huge amounts of government money started pouring into the health care system.
The insurance industry knew a good thing when they saw it. Organized medicine, the AMA and its state and county medical societies, did not -- paralyzed by the fear of government intrusion.
Insurance companies relished the enormous cash flow of government money emanating from Medicare and Medicaid and other government programs like Champus, medical coverage for servicemen and their families.
Insurance companies set up their own private plans, yes, HMOs, to sop up all that loose cash. They turned pre-paid plans into their opposite -- not "socialized medicine" for the people but corporate welfare for the insurance companies. Through the years, they increased premiums and cut services, raking in billions in profits instead of providing not-for-profit medical services to their subscribers. The doctors allowed themselves to be co-opted and blind-sided. They allowed the pre-paid plans to get away from them. Their fear of "socialized medicine" dimmed their vision.
Instead of "socialized medicine" the doctors got privatized sweatshops where some doctors can't make medical decisions without the approval of an HMO bureaucrat. Managed care became mismanaged medicine.
The epitome of outrage was Hillary and Bill Clinton's opportunistic brainstorming of a National Health Plan in 1992. They devised a government health plan they knew would never work. They dangled it before the nation. They were too politically sophisticated not to know they were playing right into the hands of the insurance companies.
The Clintons set the national health care movement back a generation. Now, Hillary Clinton is running for president in 2008. What's her health care program? More of the same. Single payer? No way.
The current health insurance system violates the very essence of the insurance principle -- the widest coverage for the least cost. The larger the pool, the more efficient the system.
In the current US system, there are literally tens of thousands of different, and overlapping, health care organizations generating a blizzard of paperwork in an administrative wilderness creating enormous waste -- thousands, if not millions of people pushing paper around. They are driving doctors, trying to do a job, up the wall with the different forms needed to be completed in order to get paid, to say nothing of patients fighting their way through a jungle of obstacles trying to get the health care they need.
A single payer system would eliminate all that.
One administrator or "payer" -- yes, a government supervised agency, would collect all health care fees and pay out all health care costs. In a single payer system, all hospitals, doctors and other health care providers would bill one entity for their services. Every US citizen would be covered. It's been done successfully in most "civilized" countries. Why not here?
US health care is in crisis, today. The system just isn't working, for anybody, except, maybe the health insurance industry and their HMOs that are siphoning off whopping profits. But doctors aren't happy. Patients are burdened more and more with increasing co-payments. Health care costs continue to skyrocket. And 47 million people remain uninsured. Sooner, if not later, the system will crash. Must we wait for that to happen?
 

medicineman

New Member
so no-one is interested in health care. Just hope you don't come down with an illness either not covered by your HMO or not covered because you can't afford insurance. If you're young and healthy, health care is a minor thing except maybe for your kids, but what if your child were to come down with a catastrophic disease and you had no insurance. Health care affects us all, and you should be concerned as it is the 900 lb gorilla in the closet!
 

ViRedd

New Member
"so no-one is interested in health care."

I'm REALLY interested in health care, Med. That's why I work out five days a week and eat healty, whole foods. That's why I've always had health coverage EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR FOR OVER 30 YEARS! That means that I've almost always had to pay for my family's insurance as well as mine. If the guy down the street never exercises, eats entire carloads of Twinkies for breakfast, chased down with a six-pack of Bud Lite, why is it my responsibility to pay his way when he has a major coronary?

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
"so no-one is interested in health care."

I'm REALLY interested in health care, Med. That's why I work out five days a week and eat healty, whole foods. That's why I've always had health coverage EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR FOR OVER 30 YEARS! That means that I've almost always had to pay for my family's insurance as well as mine. If the guy down the street never exercises, eats entire carloads of Twinkies for breakfast, chased down with a six-pack of Bud Lite, why is it my responsibility to pay his way when he has a major coronary?

Vi
I understand you are a compassionless person who does not give one fuck about another human being but yourself, but what if you had a 3 million dollar health problem, do you have the money to spare. I've told you about one of the greatest men I've ever known, Tallie Parker, He was a millionaire three times, self made, I helped on his third million. The point being that he lost two wives to cancer and each one bankrupted him with medical expenses, the first one was well over a million, and the second one about 800 thousand. I got totally shitfaced with him one night and he confided in me. I was his field superintendent for 9 years, and I made him his third million and loved every minute of it. He was a very intelligent and fair man. I don't regret one minute of time I spent working for him. You couldn't begin to compare to him, he was respect, whereas you are arrogance.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
i think what Vi is saying is why should we all pay for the mistakes of those who don't care about themselves? yeah, tragedy comes all the time but look at these people who eat themselves to death, drink to death, smoke to death. so many things that people cause for themselves and it does nothing for them to pay their way when they don't care what happens.

national health care will ruin the medical and biotech sciences in this nation. when you force the gvnmnt into the equation you remove success. you turn the $ over to politicians and that my friend is far worse than letting the private business world manage it. on the one hand are rabid parasites who say anything to get votes, on the other hand you have people who can get fired today if they screw up!

you think sweeping it all into the fold of gvnmnt programs will somehow fix everything but it won't. the system will no longer reward innovation it will reward efficiency. the system will no longer revolve around quality of care, quantity will trump. the system will not attract people who are driven by compassion but rather it will bring in "on the clock" health care providers who just want to get their pay check.

if you let the fester of gvnmnt management get into American medicine too far you will make a great, world leading institution destitute and dead.




stop the trial lawyers and you'll have affordable insurance, insurance rates correspond to their greed.
 

medicineman

New Member
if you let the fester of gvnmnt management get into American medicine too far you will make a great, world leading institution destitute and dead.
So the quest for the almighty dollar as opposed to proficient medical care is what matters to you guys, pathetic. The insurance and HMO corporations do the least possible medical care for you for the money so the profit margin is not damaged. If they suspect they won't make enough, they raise the rates and the co-pay and cut down on benefits. It's absolutely the worst managed Health care system for the money in the world. How anyone could support the current system without being a CEO of a HMO is totally unbelievable. Debating with you guys is becoming increasingly boring to say the least. all you do is spout right wing bullshit and demand answers, the typical "I am the boss bullshit"
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
show me anything outside of governing that the gvnmnt does well and i'll support this BS national health machine you want so bad.

i'm for common sense, it's not in any party or wing that i know of. if you want to know why canada has NO biotech lead, the U.K. has very very little influence and every other gvnmnt medicine machine contributes nothing to the world look where the money goes.. it goes to politicians and their infinite commitees to be distributed to ass kissing party line doctors, it doesn't go to the real thinkers and innovators to do research. it goes to pet projects and corruption. make people well and you should prosper, that's ancient common sense.

and what is this "least possible medical care" of which you speak? there is healing and not healing, it's not like you have different types of band aids, or better needles or some kinder MRI.. Dr.s get to decide, thanks to the halt of the gvnmnt to impose itself on HMOs. yeah, the medical pros began to delegate too much to business people but they took it back when they saw the errors.




stop the trial lawyers and you'll have affordable insurance, insurance rates correspond to their greed.
 

ViRedd

New Member
7x sez ...

i'm for common sense, it's not in any party or wing that i know of. if you want to know why canada has NO biotech lead, the U.K. has very very little influence and every other gvnmnt medicine machine contributes nothing to the world look where the money goes.. it goes to politicians and their infinite commitees to be distributed to ass kissing party line doctors, it doesn't go to the real thinkers and innovators to do research. it goes to pet projects and corruption. make people well and you should prosper, that's ancient common sense.

And, this is exactly what statists like Med will never agree or admit to. They are so into class envy, they will never see that their way is the Road to Serfdom.

Vi


 

medicineman

New Member
7x sez ...

i'm for common sense, it's not in any party or wing that i know of. if you want to know why canada has NO biotech lead, the U.K. has very very little influence and every other gvnmnt medicine machine contributes nothing to the world look where the money goes.. it goes to politicians and their infinite commitees to be distributed to ass kissing party line doctors, it doesn't go to the real thinkers and innovators to do research. it goes to pet projects and corruption. make people well and you should prosper, that's ancient common sense.

And, this is exactly what statists like Med will never agree or admit to. They are so into class envy, they will never see that their way is the Road to Serfdom.

Vi


Pure un-adulterated doubletalk bullshit. The health care system is broken. We need single payer health care. EOC.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Med ...

Why not turn over food production and distribution to the federal government to run too? Surely the basic food supply is more important than health care, no?

Vi
 
Top