Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Why do you want that...aren't those the low frequency ballasts?
Have any of you DIY COB Growers finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS? - POLL
- Thread starter OneHitDone
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
That's an exaggerated opinion. A 600watt for example fits for 3x3 and 4x4 and various in between, not just a "little bit different".The main thing that really changes is the ppfd and not in a way that qualifies as "pita". If you really want run the highest ppfd you can use something like 3x3 in the 4x4... With the common boost feature and as pointed out wide variety of reflectors there are many options. Proper wall reflection adds even more flexibilty. Using multiple with a rectangle footprint and overlap increases options quickly.
You are turning the positive of the flexibility of individual led spots into a major negative of hid, but it's not that black-and-white in reality.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Classic... everytime the led folks lose an argument and their claims turn out to be false they end up change it to the red herring "led works to grow cannabis", posed as a question to be used as a straw man. You scored double fallacy points with that one.
It's not that black-and-white. T5 and CFL buds don't all suck, either.
Imagine a thread were led users make claims about hps creating to much heat (plenty of examples), and I would respond "So all hps buds I'm seeing suck or what?" people would be eager to claim I would be trolling, which would be the case...
The answer to the "or what" is specified clearly throughout this post. That's what people are saying not what you simplify it too.
It's not that black-and-white. T5 and CFL buds don't all suck, either.
Imagine a thread were led users make claims about hps creating to much heat (plenty of examples), and I would respond "So all hps buds I'm seeing suck or what?" people would be eager to claim I would be trolling, which would be the case...
The answer to the "or what" is specified clearly throughout this post. That's what people are saying not what you simplify it too.
bicit
Well-Known Member
I just said I like LED for it's scaleablity and modularity... Honestly it works just as well for probably about 80% of the growers out there. There is no universal 'best' light source. HID isn't for every one.... I don't know why my opinions keep getting boiled down to me claiming the LED is unilaterally the ultimate light source available for everyone... I've never said that...
What I did say was that LED's offer flexibility and options that can't be matched by HID. Also that the UV output from most HID bulbs is minimal at best..
Well all the high end lamp manufactures toute either longer bulb lifespan or more output without the EMI from high frequency ballasts. The 315w CMH bulbs are but all the 600w fixtures are sin wave and/or high frequency AFAIK.
You're just arguing to argue man. I'm not putting things into black and white categories.... There's no argument to be won here and I'm not a secretary. So take my opinion for what it's worth. I'm listing things I've had to deal with that led me to this point.
Exaggerated? A little bit I'll admit, but really I started out with 600w hps bulbs. I wouldn't have gone through the effort to learn how to build my own cob units if there wasn't some merit to to my point. I don't like being confined to a specific form factor and HID bulbs force me into that situation. What If my closet it L shaped, oblong, or otherwise not a clean cut a-symmetrical square shape? What if I have fickle desires and completely remodel my basement
The reason I liken the CPU/COB combo to lego's is that I can take the same CPU/COB from a 600w high intensity build for flowering cannabis in a 4x4 and re purpose them into 8 grow cabs for lettuce. Or three veg spaces, or two lettuce chambers and a micro cab... or 4 2x2's at the exact same ppfd for running different strains/perpetual. Yes it's more of a novelty feature, but one which could be exploited for certain situations. I can't take a 1kw gavita commercial fixture, cram it in a PC case and make it work. Just not gonna happen
.Shades of grey and all that. Are you honestly going to sit here and say that HPS is the best with no defining factors on what exactly 'best' is? Before you say it, no I'm not moving the goal post, these are just some of MY motivating factors and experience.... You already know what my goals are with lighting tech of any sort. I'm not trying to find a one dimensional 'best'....
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CannaBruh
Well-Known Member
It's a legitimate question, are buds under COB any good or not? Comparable to HPS?
COB are more efficient at putting out light than HPS. COB, for me, appear to be a valid method for delivering light, and comparable to HPS (unless there is evidence to suggest inferiority)
Threads like the end of LED is nigh are not red herring? Look at this problem!? GTFO with all due respect.
COB are more efficient at putting out light than HPS. COB, for me, appear to be a valid method for delivering light, and comparable to HPS (unless there is evidence to suggest inferiority)
Threads like the end of LED is nigh are not red herring? Look at this problem!? GTFO with all due respect.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
Ok I agree, if you grow inside a PC case you should be using a LED, but who the hell grows inside a PC case now a days when it's legal to grow weed . I want bigger not smaller. The larger my plant the larger my yield. LEDs are great for small hobby growers but when you are lighting up areas larger than a small grow tent, you might wanna move away from tiny lights.I just said I like LED for it's scaleablity and modularity... Honestly it works just as well for probably about 80% of the growers out there. There is no universal 'best' light source. HID isn't for every one.... I don't know why my opinions keep getting boiled down to me claiming the LED is unilaterally the ultimate light source available for everyone... I've never said that...
What I did say was that LED's offer flexibility and options that can't be matched by HID. Also that the UV output from most HID bulbs is minimal at best..
Well all the high end lamp manufactures toute either longer bulb lifespan or more output without the EMI from high frequency ballasts. The 315w CMH bulbs are but all the 600w fixtures are sin wave and/or high frequency AFAIK.
You're just arguing to argue man. I'm not putting things into black and white categories.... There's no argument to be won here and I'm not a secretary. So take my opinion for what it's worth. I'm listing things I've had to deal with that led me to this point.
Exaggerated? A little bit I'll admit, but really I started out with 600w hps bulbs. I wouldn't have gone through the effort to learn how to build my own cob units if there wasn't some merit to to my point. I don't like being confined to a specific form factor and HID bulbs force me into that situation. What If my closet it L shaped, oblong, or otherwise not a clean cut a-symmetrical square shape? What if I have fickle desires and completely remodel my basement
The reason I liken the CPU/COB combo to lego's is that I can take the same CPU/COB from a 600w high intensity build for flowering cannabis in a 4x4 and re purpose them into 8 grow cabs for lettuce. Or three veg spaces, or two lettuce chambers and a micro cab... or 4 2x2's at the exact same ppfd for running different strains/perpetual. Yes it's more of a novelty feature, but one which could be exploited for certain situations. I can't take a 1kw gavita commercial fixture, cram it in a PC case and make it work. Just not gonna happen
Shades of grey and all that. Are you honestly going to sit here and say that HPS is the best with no defining factors on what exactly 'best' is? Before you say it, no I'm not moving the goal post, these are just some of MY motivating factors and experience.... You already know what my goals are with lighting tech of any sort. I'm not trying to find a one dimensional 'best'....
bicit
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I agree with that either. The larger the scale the more options open up with custom LED fixtures that offer ways to save money beyond simply the electrical cost. Yeah sure if it's your first large scale grow yeah, running tried and true HPS off the bat is a good way to get your feet wet with minimal upfront cost. Especially if you're just trying to make a quick buck or have a minimal starting budget. If you're a long standing operation with no plans on shutting down, the qualities of LED lighting do start to shine a bit brighter.
Blah blah blah IR, UV, max photosynthesis, ect all can be added if needed. Is it always needed? Depends on the grower, their environment, and what they're growing.... The dose makes the poison and all that.
The biggest issue is money in vs money out followed by the goals of the end user. If it's financially viable it will happen. Be it LED, CFL, HID, or potato.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent."
That and the rest of your ramble shows clearly it's you who's more interesting in arguing than the validity of arguments in a discussion about light. You accussing others of projecting is really something you should refrain from till you refrain from doing it so obviously yourself.
"Are you honesy going to sit here (drama...) and say COB is the best"
Perhaps those who cannot look further than which is the "best" and which "sucks", why participate besides arguing and trolling.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
HID lights are better for large scale grows for sure, custom LEDs are for small grows or test areas.
bicit
Well-Known Member
Nope, I did state as such right at the start of my post. I do wish you would be a bit more respectful and not paraphrase me...
My whole post has been nothing but repeating 'there's no one size fits all'.... Well and adding that cobs tend be able to fit more feet than not.
To answer your question I started participating because I'm interested in 750/600 double HID lamps and I'm frustrated at the lack of technological advance in lower power bulbs compared too the 1kw commercial fixtures. I made a snippet about HID's being a pain in the ass and discussion arose from it.... I should have said they've been a pain in my ass.
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Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
What draws you to that conclusion besides initial investment?
bicit
Well-Known Member
Field grown ftw, screw the green house
Rahz
Well-Known Member
The cost is small, but whether it's worth it or not is the important question. Is the increase in photosynthesis per photon greater than the increase of energy needed to move the wavelength of a photon to 660? I don't have a definitive answer to that question but there does seem to be a give and take to it, perhaps a range of equal efficacy. Need more data to come to any real conclusions though.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
400W HPS because it's cheap and would work great in a 3x3. I'd suggest 315W LEC but I've never grown with one before.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
If my neighbors didn't all smoke weed that would be my plan but i'd get ripped so hard i'd end up with a stick for a plant.Field grown ftw, screw the green house
Artificer
New Member
So even within my little hypothetical scenario where money is no object, you're saying a 400 watt hps is the better light for obtaining the highest quality and yield? At what point or under what circumstances would you recommend an led then?
I promise I'm not trying to stir shit. I really am curious.
testiclees
Well-Known Member
Would you shut the fuck up with the straw man shit. Did you take a half semester in rhetoric and now you cant stop suckng that single concept.
Your 3rd rate logic matches your 3rd rate physics. Cmon now son give it a rest.