guano only
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elnene
Active Member
from my point of view you are the one giving bad advice, p is a low assimilating nutrient, the plants takes the p given in vegg & uses it during flowering, its useless to give p during flower becouse it wont assimilate it, just try it in one plant & then tell me the results, experiment it bro
we all have a newbie friend wh srcrewed up his plants
Nullis
Moderator
^What you're saying makes very little sense to me. I'll explain why, but no matter what you can't just say to somebody "experiment bro, just try it with one plant...". If I had a plant for every time somebody wanted me to try out their opinion\method\whatever I'd be growing felonious amounts of cannabis. It would be easier if you had something of substance, like research from an actual soil scientist or botanist that stated plant's don't continuously absorb phosphorous.
I'd say they have to - because plant's don't make matter. Matter cannot be created. When a plant is blooming it's mass increases significantly: the plant grows. In order to grow plants need energy, and in order to transfer energy a plant needs phosphorous (ATP). All those new cells are also going to need to contain some nucleic acids (DNA and RNA), and P is incorporated into them and other molecules needed for plant life. It stands to reason the bigger the plant gets, the more ATP, nucleic acids, etc. are needed to be produced, and so more P will be needed continuously.
There's more I can say about P availability in soil, etc. but no time, be back later.
I'd say they have to - because plant's don't make matter. Matter cannot be created. When a plant is blooming it's mass increases significantly: the plant grows. In order to grow plants need energy, and in order to transfer energy a plant needs phosphorous (ATP). All those new cells are also going to need to contain some nucleic acids (DNA and RNA), and P is incorporated into them and other molecules needed for plant life. It stands to reason the bigger the plant gets, the more ATP, nucleic acids, etc. are needed to be produced, and so more P will be needed continuously.
There's more I can say about P availability in soil, etc. but no time, be back later.
Nullis
Moderator
Adsorption is something different, though it has implications for phosphorous. Adsorption has to do with phosphates binding to soil particles; phosphates also have a tendency to precipitate out of soil solution or form complexes with organic matter... all of these things lead to decreased plant availability over time after a high P fertilizer is applied. It doesn't mean that a plant isn't still trying to uptake P from the soil, since it helpers in accomplishing this.
Nullis
Moderator
i didnt understand your last post, perhaps becouse i dont speak english, but im a soil engeneer and this has nothing to do with soil, its more simple than that, the plant catches the p duringg vegg, she doesnt uses it in vegg she just takes it, and then uses it in blooming.
just give it a try, why dont you like to experiment??, you will have good or bad results, but gain knowledge.
for example. this is a satori plant from mandala seeds i water it with only water, no nutrients nor fertilizers only water, this is day 50 of flowering with a 250w hps lamp and the plant has some serious buds. she wasnt feed any p during flowering. you will be happy and you will make me happy if you just try it bro.
i ahve more scary pictures if you want
Sorry dude, but if you can't speak English and don't even know what my growing style is exactly don't tell me to try anything, bro. I am not going to do an experiment for every time somebody has some stupid opinion or whatever it is they're trying to prove. If it's true it's already been proven and a simple synopsis of the research will do.
Plants need P during veg too, they aren't just "catching it" and sitting on it. Phosphorous is needed for ATP- adenosine triphosphate, it's needed for nucleic acids DNA & RNA, phospholipids, healthy root growth, etc... for all growth stages. Plants can indeed store some P, but I seriously, seriously doubt that a plant absorbs all the phosphorous it is going to need while it is vegging; that's just a ludicrous assertion. If that was the case then how could a plant possibly become P-deficient halfway through bloom?
There's certainly no need to over-apply phosphorous, because in a healthy organic soil the microbes and mycorrhizae in particular are going to want to seek out bound P, dissolve it and bring it back to plant roots.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/DC6795.html
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/116/2/447.full.pdf
http://www.ipni.net/ppiweb/bcrops.nsf/$webindex/ECBABED567ABDCDD852568EF0063C9F4/$file/99-1p06.pdf
hyroot
Well-Known Member
everyone feed p during veg and flower. you are wrong and give up your argument.You don't have any sound proof or any scientific data to back it up. Just because you are a soil engineer does not mean in any way that you know anything about growing. A soil engineer analyzes the structure quality in the ground for foundations and /or drilling.
Nullis
Moderator
becouse most people dont feed the p necessary during vegg
& they cant correct this deff
lol... and yet you could give a mildly-P deficient plant (mid-way through bloom) some high P guano, wait a few days, and it will take right off. Experiment, bro. Try it with one plant.
elduece
Active Member
i didnt understand your last post, perhaps becouse i dont speak english, but im a soil engeneer and this has nothing to do with soil, its more simple than that, the plant catches the p duringg vegg, she doesnt uses it in vegg she just takes it, and then uses it in blooming.
just give it a try, why dont you like to experiment??, you will have good or bad results, but gain knowledge.
for example. this is a satori plant from mandala seeds i water it with only water, no nutrients nor fertilizers only water, this is day 50 of flowering with a 250w hps lamp and the plant has some serious buds. she wasnt feed any p during flowering. you will be happy and you will make me happy if you just try it bro.
i ahve more scary pictures if you want
Will you please stop posting your asinine science? They're are not helpful in the real world. Go try share your experiments and your theories in the Advance Cultivation or better yet the subcools old school organics instead of the organics forum, please for the love of..........whatever. Just quit posting here.
Corbat420
Well-Known Member
i vouch this.
after spending 5 YEARS in school for a degree in horticultural studies, seriously go read a fucking book elnene.
Actualy, no it doesnt. the P washes out with the rest of the runoff, this is the reason we reconstitute soils.
ACTUALLY. you will realize who the ignorant one is in this situation. LEARN ENGLISH, i dont speak engrish.
Edit: i found it
had to find the book.those are the maximum absorbable PPM limits of green broad leaf plants (such as marijuana).
thats where i spend alot of my time. i came here just to put the run on you elnene. i hate people like you, who spread MISINFORMATION.
oh its not the best, or only. alot of my friends are just as good as me, and i know 2 people who are better..... but heres something for you. my way, is scientificly proven. WTF is your backwards hillbilly way?
P.S. the only reason that plant is "scarey" is because the stem is so thin and weak, it cant even hold its self up.
theexpress
Well-Known Member
mexican bat guano and molassis for K. and other needed shit will get you threw veg, and jamaican bat guano 1-10-.5 plus some molassis will get you threw bloom..... twords the end you could even switch to indo. bat giuano .5-12-.5 to finish her off...
IMNSHO, there is nowhere near enough K in the molasses or the molasses and guano combined for flowering and even veg would be ?????????
Add some kelp and I agree 420%.
Just about all organics are really weak in the K dept. N and P are easy, K is a bit more problematic.
Wet
Corbat420
Well-Known Member
personaly list of MINIMUM fertalizers:
High N Guano (Prefer bat)
High P Guano (prefer seabird)
Kelp Extract (prefer liquid)
0-X-X Fish Emulsion (to finish off flowering phase)
i personaly say this is the minimun needed to grow decent plants. anything less than that and the plants arn;t getting the trace elements needed, or the proper N/P/K ratio's at the right times.
i wouldn;t say Greensand is NEEDED, but DAMN MAN. i just got some greensand and added it to my personal super soil, seriously 30% larger plants.... WTF silica is awsome.
High N Guano (Prefer bat)
High P Guano (prefer seabird)
Kelp Extract (prefer liquid)
0-X-X Fish Emulsion (to finish off flowering phase)
i personaly say this is the minimun needed to grow decent plants. anything less than that and the plants arn;t getting the trace elements needed, or the proper N/P/K ratio's at the right times.
i wouldn;t say Greensand is NEEDED, but DAMN MAN. i just got some greensand and added it to my personal super soil, seriously 30% larger plants.... WTF silica is awsome.
