Growing indoor with peat moss + vermiculite

Hello all,

I'm relatively new to growing. I'm 3 successful grows in, and I've come across a problem in this 4th grow that I haven't been able to resolve yet. Pics below. I'm using peat moss and vermiculite, mixed with dolomitic lime at 40g/cf and gypsum at 10g/cf. I've been using Jack's 3-2-1 for all of my grows thus far with a rotation of recharge, tribus, and molasses. Also, supplementing with humic acid, fulvic acid, kelp, seaweed extract, silica, amino acids, enzymes, calimagic, and yucca as a wetting agent. I also do 1-2× weekly foliar sprays, either 5:2 humic:kelp or seaweed extract, really only during veg, but 5:2 sometimes early in flower.

For my second grow, I began recycling my medium in the transplant before flower -meaning, the plants have all new medium in their solo cups and 1 gallon pots, but when transplanting into 3 gallon pots for flower, I use 2 gallons of previously used peat moss/vermiculite mix. While I've removed the vast majority of old root matter, I'm not certain that everything is copacetic. PH of runoff has been steady between 6 and 6.2. Ppm reads 650-700. By the time the plants see the re-used medium, they're already being fed 800-1000ppm.

The second and third grows were successful as stated, though fan leaves have been yellowing, browning, drying out, and dropping. The current, 4th grow is the first time I've seen stunted growth in veg. The plants, both from seed and clones, seem to be growing in height minimally, forming nodes a centimeter or so apart, with leaves staying close to the trunk, rarely forming branches, with very little lateral growth. They almost look like they're being under or over-watered, but neither is the case. The plants pictured have been in their 1 gallon pots for 10-32 days so far. At first I thought it was the reused medium that was the problem, so I planted more recent clones into new medium - but now it seems that all of the plants are experiencing this odd growth, regardless of medium.

The roots have colonized all of the pots, but they aren't white and healthy where they meet the fabric. In other words, they aren't gripping the pot as they have in previous grows and are easily removed from the pots if I try. They also do not smell bad, so thinking theres no rot.

I had a little fungus gnat infestation at one point, but that's long under control. I thought it might be a ph issue, but that doesn't appear to be the case. The plants seem to be growing in a unique way, so my hope is someone will know what it is by looking. So far, my research hasn't turned up anything. Thanks in advance.
 

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Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
What's your input ph? I'd wager the soil's ph would be lower than what your waste is reading.

I think it'd be worth testing the soil's ph properly. Sample + indicator + powder is the cheapest and most reliable for soil.

To be completely honest, if you're supplementing 800-1000ppm regularly, that's likely too much.

Test soil ph properly and plain neutral water for a week or two, is the best course of action for now imo.

Good luck. All the best.

Edit: apologies didn't notice it's just peat not soil. (my bad)
Forget what i said about ppm!
I do still think it's worth testing the mix using a sample with indicator and barium sulfate powder.
 
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go go kid

Well-Known Member
Gardeners use peat moss mainly as a soil amendment or ingredient in potting soil. It has an acid pH, so it's ideal for acid loving plants, such as blueberries and camellias. For plants that like a more alkaline soil, compost may be a better choice.
 

myke

Well-Known Member
That is alot of different stuff your throwing in,some slow release some not.Id have to say either you have some mites bad ones that you cant see since they all look the same or a fungus or your food mix.Id suggest just basic nutes with calmag nothing else.You may even want to flush so you can start again.Myself i would take a couple out of the dirt vibrate most of it off and go with coco.
 

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
Peat moss and vermiculite has a high whc too. Despite your waste ppm, i do think it'd be worth cutting back just a tad, to see if it's overfert.
Despite there being new mix, there's a lot going on there. (i figured some sort of supersoil at first glance)
Lots of sulphur in peat moss, plus you added humic and fulvic too. Plus jacks 321 on the regular at 800-1000ppm. Honestly seems like too much.

Imvho you need to properly determine your ph, before making a decision on next course of action.
 
Aussieaceae, today's input was 6.18 and run off was 6.15. About the same ppm comes out as goes in, usually a little less, sometimes as much as 25% less. Is there a preferred kit that the barium sulphate powder comes in? I haven't used it before.

Myke, yes I water to run off every feed. The room temp range is 72-80 currently. I assumed the purple was because there's no leaves shading the stems after weeks of slow growth.

Gogokid, I was talked into it by a friend and was further convinced after watching one of Bruce Bugby's videos. Is it pretty rare to see?

I'll flush for the week and switch to a simpler feed, just Jacks and calmag. Any recs on ppm? I've been trying to keep input ph between 6 and 6.2.

Thank you everyone for your input.
 

myke

Well-Known Member
I think peat with vermiculite may need a little higher ph 6.3. Although I’ve never grown with vermiculite. It does hold the nutes so this maybe part of the problem. As far as feed goes stay normal to low until you get some green back you could also raise your lights as there pretty stressed (purple stems). Say 150 ppm calmag and 4-500 ppm food. You could also foiler feed some calmag. They sure look hungry but your feeding them???? ph pH ph lol.
 

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member
Aussieaceae, today's input was 6.18 and run off was 6.15. About the same ppm comes out as goes in, usually a little less, sometimes as much as 25% less. Is there a preferred kit that the barium sulphate powder comes in? I haven't used it before.

Myke, yes I water to run off every feed. The room temp range is 72-80 currently. I assumed the purple was because there's no leaves shading the stems after weeks of slow growth.

Gogokid, I was talked into it by a friend and was further convinced after watching one of Bruce Bugby's videos. Is it pretty rare to see?

I'll flush for the week and switch to a simpler feed, just Jacks and calmag. Any recs on ppm? I've been trying to keep input ph between 6 and 6.2.

Thank you everyone for your input.
Hey sweet, no worries!

I do think it'd be worth testing the ph using a different method as an extra assurance.
They're the ones you buy at a hardware or nursery for soil use. Comes with a white powder you sprinkle over the top after making the slurry with indicator + sample.
You can make a slurry with distilled water, to use with a water probe. Not sure of the ratio, but you can search it. Just make sure it's distilled water. Tap or RO / filtered won't give an accurate reading.
(i don't believe it to be as accurate as the soil method above either)

Maybe try your input at around 6.5?
Good idea cutting back a little bit. They do look overferted if it is'nt ph.
Looks a lot like when plants are grown in dirty coco coir.

Edit: sodium excess causing lockout could be it, if you have indeed been recycling your mix + using ferts and kelp meal etc regularly.
Not suggesting it's likely, just possible.
Salt makes them look really dry and thirsty, while simultaneously showing lockout. Typically calcium / magnesium deficiency.
Purple stems could be phosphorus related, if the ph is a bit low and locking phosphorus out.
Calmag deficiency can indirectly affect phosphorus uptake as well.

Not suggesting to flush the hell out of it. Just might be an explanation, if nothing else.

Best of luck. Hope you find a solution.
 
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go go kid

Well-Known Member

Why on earth would you add vermiculite to peat moss?
Perlite would have been a better choice.

it was on the advice of a friend
 

Aussieaceae

Well-Known Member

Why on earth would you add vermiculite to peat moss?
Perlite would have been a better choice.

it was on the advice of a friend
Very much agreed!

Ones like these are better also imo. They have a wider range of pH indication.images (1).jpeg
 
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