Grandma's Growing Again

karmas a bitch

Well-Known Member
Yes. U top dress when u flip them to flower. It's in the recipe I sent u. Just gotta reread it

I read all the ingredients no dolomite in there. It def won't hurt to add it.
 

Bluejeans

Well-Known Member
I just took a clone at harvest time. Stuck it in dirt under 19/5 with a dome on it and a 72 temp.

Any other tips? Heres one for you. I just found out how to read almost any book free online. Just type PDF with the book. I am going read The Postman. Book is suppose to be great
Oh yeah, and about the clone. The only other tip is be patient. It takes a LOT longer to do anything but once it starts, it's amazing.
 

Bluejeans

Well-Known Member
Thanks, I did just reread the recipe. Like a good girl, I saved it to my hard drive this time rather than in my PM box where it gets deleted when I get frustrated. :lol:

I may add the DL next time, or not. If I don't see any deficiencies, should I bother?
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
Personal I would skip the lime, lime should be allowed to age about 3 months before you plant in it, so if your mixing and letting it cook for 3 months go for it. Next time your in the garden section have a look at a bag of the stuff and you will see it's clearly marked. Lime will burn roots fast if it comes into contact with them.

dolomite is high in both (Mg) Magnesium and (Ca) Calcium which can screw things up if you have enough in there already.

Here is info from the 3lb (three little birds) growing gods

- Endless Soil Remixing with the 3LBS

We are about to go totally against the advice that Cervantes and Rosenthal and many others give concerning soil . . . the three_little_birds want to tell people that we ALWAYS re-use our soil . . . No soil has left the garden's of the three_little_birds since before the turn of the millennium . . .
we were discussing this among "the birds" the other nite - and one line that a little bird said comes to mind . . . "Farmer's don't strip their topsoil after a harvest - or even a few - in fact their soil is their most precious commodity - why should it be different for indoor gardening as long as proper care is taken to build healthy soil?"
Some “experts” will tell folks to throw out their soil after every grow . . . and we've known plenty of commercial growers that happily comply to make sure they do not have pest or nutrient problems. . . Maybe that even is the best solution for your grow, we can't say for sure, as always your mileage may vary. . .
We are poor simple medical users . . . and spending something like $20 for a bag of FoxFarm soil rubbed us wrong . . . our indoor herb grows have evolved to use 2'x3' containers . . . so with our container system it might take 2+ full bags of that soil for 3 plants in one of those containers . . . The three_little_birds wanted to save our money to purchase top quality genetics . . . not to buy simple dirt . . . so we decided there had to be a better way!
Now again . . . someone who is involved in commercial (rather than personal medical) production might not be so inclined to bother with making sure their soils stay healthy and all the work we go through to ensure our soil's health. . . but for us it is a labor of love and we feel our results speak for themselves. . . anyway, like we said . . our soil never leaves our grow . . . it has all been recycled to the point that we could not even begin to tell you how many times it's been through our system . . .
A good commercial potting mix has always been the base for our soil. . . We look for a product which is 100% organic . . . we recommend that you avoid ALL chemical salt ferts like the plague if you value your soil health . . . This especially includes timed-released chem ferts like osmocote . . .
Depending on what we have found for soil . . . we go from there. . . Some cheap organic soil mixes contain little more than peat, pearlite, and dolomite lime. . . These absolutely need amending to start off. . . Some organic soil mixes are much more complete and need little or no amending for starters. . .
Organic mushroom compost is certainly one of the hot soil mediums these days . . . and we've certainly had great success mixing it in with our soil remixes to add fresh organic matter. . . we often have “top-dressed” with fresh mushroom compost as well . . . after a couple years of experience with mushroom compost . . . we’ve found it to be a great source for an indoor soil base . . . and it’s proven to work well with remixes . . .
Now we’ll walk you through a description of the soil building process . . . lets imagine we started with an already amended soil mix like FoxFarm Ocean Forest as the base . . . perhaps mixed ½ and ½ with mushroom compost and added perlite . . .
Once through it's first grow (the plants fed only 100% organic with earth juice, guano and alfalfa teas, fish ferts, and liquid kelp). . . our container of soil has it's root balls pulled and it is dumped into a very large rubbermaid container w/ a lid (50 gallon container is our standard) . . . These container's are longer than our 2x3 growing containers, so with 2 people lifting and dumping . . . it's not too hard to keep this step neat. . . Each bin can actually hold more than the contents from a single grow-container . . . 2 grow-containers of soil will actually fit, but this makes mixing in amendments very difficult and messy. . .
Now we proceed to give back to our soil mix what our plants have taken (and then some) . . . We get out our kelp meal, bone meal, alfalfa (or blood) meal, greensand, rock phosphate, diatomaceous earth, and dolomite lime and get mixing. . . Depending on the soil's condition this is also where we might add a little more pearlite if soil compaction looks to be a potential problem. . .
Folks are going to ask us how much of these different supplements we add, and the only honest answer we can give is - it depends! If the plants we'd raised previously in that particular container had shown any signs of being short on a major nutrient . . .it's not too hard to throw in an extra cup or two of the appropriate organic supplement . . .for example we’d add extra Blood meal or alfalfa for N - Bone meal for P - kelp meal for K and other micro nutrients . . .
A nice full 16 oz plastic “dixie” cup of each of the prior mentioned ingredients would be our “baseline” for supplementing this round of soil re-mix. . . that actually equals a measurement of 2 cups (1 pint) . . . We will generally double this amount if any nutrient shortage has shown. . .
The greensand and rock phosphate are very slow to dissolve and be absorbed by plants, and are not normally used by many indoor container gardeners. . . Their slow release is what helps to make our system work . . . They will still be in our soil for the next couple of grows, doing their part for our soil health. . .
This is the point where we would also add some of our own compost assuming there is some finished and ready . . . if not some mushroom compost has proven to work . . . Our compost is made from the usual standards, household veggie food scraps and such . . . with the addition of all our used grow scraps. . . Fan leaf, chopped stems, and the "leftover's" from processing by bubble bag or tumbling are all composted and returned to the soil. . .
Now we will wet this whole mix down lightly and let it "cook" for a spell. . . We have a couple of large bins like this for soil remixing and composting. . . Folks always want us to be specific on amounts and times, and we do a lot of this by feel, so when we say we let the soil cook for a "spell" - how long depends on feel and need . . .
The minimum time our soil sits is two weeks . . . and it's sat waiting for use for a couple months like this during slower times or shut-downs in our grow . . . This time gives soil bacteria a chance to work and make the various organic amendments more quickly and easily available for our plants. . .
Now for the second grow . . . We use this soil again for another grow, watering with our usual array of teas, Earth Juice, etc. . . If needed, containers are top-dressed with compost (our own or mushroom compost depending on availability) as any soil settling occurs. . .
Upon yet another successful harvest . . the soil is reconditioned again . . . Once we reached our third mix of soil, we cut back on some of the soil amendments. . . The greensand and rock phosphate are still working from the last re-mix so we don't need to add any more of them for sure. . . .What remains in your soil at this point in terms of nitrogen and such may depend on your strain, some strains are much more greedy for some nutrients . . .
As an example of this technique . . . if our plants haven't shown any signs of yellowing as they mature, we figure there is nitrogen enough in the soil for the next round (at least to get started - we can add more N on the fly with fish ferts and teas if needed) . . and no alfalfa / blood meal would be added. . . If yellowing has occurred then a nitrogen supplement is added again. . . as we’ve gotten more adept at remixing our soils . . .
Just as a note about nitrogen sources . . . we’ve found that over time we can now judge better how much of the amendments to mix in from the beginning . . . and as we’ve increasingly switch from blood meal to alfalfa . . . we’ve found that we can add alfalfa meal with every soil remix . . .
Kelp meal is always added again since many of the major liquid organic ferts seem a little short on potassium, and also because we like the micro nutrients kelp meal provides to our plants. . . Dolomite lime will usually be necessary again too . . .and it's possible your soil will need even more lime this time than last. . . Any peat in the soil adds acidity as it decomposes, and the lime balances this as well as providing magnesium. . .
After the standard 15 - 30 days of standing moistened waiting for use this soil is used still another time. . . Now our soil has grown 4 crops of herbs and is still going and growing strong. . . At this point, we have started plants in our soil remixes directly alongside plants in fresh potting soil, just to make sure our mix wasn't subtly stunting our plants. . .
The result was that the plants grown in our 4th and 5th generation soil remix did far better than those directly alongside grown in fresh from the bag FoxFarm OceanForest potting soil!
Because our garden was designed to be a continuous harvest setup . . . once we are to our 4th or 5th remix, it's starting to get hard to keep track of exactly what soil has been remixed where . . since half used bins of remixes are often dumped together to make room for another round of used soil coming from the garden . . So from here we simply continue adding amendments by feel as needed. . . as we’ve already described . . .
This is how the three little birds use soil. . . We know we break the rule we have all been told to follow - to never reuse soil. . . Even those "radicals" we have seen reusing soil, have always described letting their soil go out to their flower beds after 3 or 4 grows. We decided to push the envelope and see how far we could take it . . .
We still haven't found a limit for the number of times we remix our soil, and our harvests and plant vigor keep improving. . .
Oh . . just to add another bit of heresy . . . folk who have checked out our picture gallery at CW may have noticed our container grows suspended above the floor on wheeled furniture movers. . . It's a very convenient way to keep the plants in larger containers mobile. . . but you also must realize then (if you think about it) that out grow containers have NO drainage. . .
Our soil mix . . . which now has been remixed double digit times . . . has NEVER been flushed!
one more thing we might add - we certainly would not remix soil from any containers where we'd had a bug or disease problem - even getting bud mold would be enough for us to say - no thanks to a soil remix . . . if disease or pests strike your soil it will need to be discarded . . . otherwise we're still reusing the same soils in 2004 we used in 2003 . . . and those were used in 2002 and 2001 and 2000 etc . . .
our methods may not be for everyone . . . and we strongly encourage folk to use a keen eye to watch and "listen" closely to their plants . . . when we open a container of our remixed soil after it's "composted" . . . it smells like fresh earth . . . and as long as that's the case we plan to keep using ours . . .
As a final note . . . we are proud to report that earthworms live in our soil remixes now. . . not the big fat nightcrawlers that many folks associate with the word "worm" . . . these are smaller red wigglers . . . our container gardens aren't ideal habitat for worms . . . they are really too shallow . . . so in many ways we are amazed that worms manage to live in our indoor garden . . . and we use fish ferts and earth juice ferts in fairly high concentrations . . . again we are a little amazed that worms tolerate this . . .
but we've had plenty of worms (red wigglers) showing up in containers that had been through their entire bloom cycle as they were being remixed for recycling . . .
 

MomaPug

Active Member
Next I will be trying to talk you into adding some Mycorahizal fungi and bacteria...once that is all balanced out...we add worms :-) Not just castings...live worms ! You may occasional have to rescue a few after flushing...but other than that they are good neighbors, just a few per pot :leaf:
 

Bluejeans

Well-Known Member
Next I will be trying to talk you into adding some Mycorahizal fungi and bacteria...once that is all balanced out...we add worms :-) Not just castings...live worms ! You may occasional have to rescue a few after flushing...but other than that they are good neighbors, just a few per pot :leaf:
LOL... I do have the Mycorrhiwhatever in a little additive called Plant Success Granular. And yes, I've been reading quite a bit about worms. Not sure how I feel about that yet... :lol:
 

MomaPug

Active Member
Personal I would skip the lime, lime should be allowed to age about 3 months before you plant in it, so if your mixing and letting it cook for 3 months go for it. Next time your in the garden section have a look at a bag of the stuff and you will see it's clearly marked. Lime will burn roots fast if it comes into contact with them.

dolomite is high in both (Mg) Magnesium and (Ca) Calcium which can screw things up if you have enough in there already.

Here is info from the 3lb (three little birds) growing gods

- Endless Soil Remixing with the 3LBS
Great info. Thanks for sharing :-)

Funny about the worms, I never read about anyone else using worms indoors...and then we post at the same time...red wigglers here too...lol

I must say, I buy the really fine dolomite, it's a really powdery powder so it doesn't require a long time to cook I guess...compared to the chunky kind that says right on the bag it needs activation time...bigger chunks like rocksalt. I have always used it, like my grandmother always used it in her garden (she called it "soil sweet") and have nothing but praise for it. My PH stays nice and stable.
 

ca$hcropper

Active Member
Yes. U top dress when u flip them to flower. It's in the recipe I sent u. Just gotta reread it

I read all the ingredients no dolomite in there. It def won't hurt to add it.
As he said lol,
Most organic mixes will feed for up to 2 months, so if your transplanting into bigger pots you add more fresh goodness, and top dress and teas as needed follow karmas mix, speaking of bro mind sharing your recipe?
 

Bluejeans

Well-Known Member
Great info. Thanks for sharing :-)

Funny about the worms, I never read about anyone else using worms indoors...and then we post at the same time...red wigglers here too...lol

I must say, I buy the really fine dolomite, it's a really powdery powder so it doesn't require a long time to cook I guess...compared to the chunky kind that says right on the bag it needs activation time...bigger chunks like rocksalt. I have always used it, like my grandmother always used it in her garden (she called it "soil sweet") and have nothing but praise for it. My PH stays nice and stable.
What's even funnier about the worms... I was just reading a couple of articles online on a garden site (non-mj) about organic mixes and reusing soil and they talked about the red wigglers indoors also. Wow. That's 3 times in one day. I think I needs to get me some worms...
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
Worms and worm castings, just got to have if using dirt. I used 25% worm castings in my mix and it stopped all kinds of things like bugs, balance the pH and continue to feed your plants for up to 2 years.

here is some worm info, I'll go smoke a fatty for a bit...

nice meeting you all

What are Worm Castings? Worm Castings are Mother Nature’s soil enrichment of choice. This rich humus-like digested output of the worm includes a wide range of nutrients and microbial life that all types of vegetation require to grow. Worm Castings are one of the most natural soil enrichment's available and more importantly are environmentally friendly, all natural, easy to use, and safe to handle, with a pleasant earthy aroma.

What do Worm Castings do? Worm Castings restore soil health in many ways.
· A source of organic matter with lots of nutrients and moisture-holding capacity. Worm
Castings hold 9 times their weight in moisture, which is beneficial in drought
conditions .
· Adds active microbial life to the soil, allowing it to slowly release and make the
valuable nutrient and trace minerals more available to tender plant roots.
· Rich in growth hormones and vitamins, and acts as a powerful biocide against
diseases and nematodes.
· A natural aerator, allowing oxygen to permeate the root zone to improve drainage and
encourage root growth.
· Restores soil without fear of burning or harming tender plant life.
Restoring the soil makes nutrients more available to crops, turf applications and desired
vegetation. This means there is less need for synthetic fertilizers and pesticides. Best of all, Worm Castings contain no toxins and are therefore safe to use without fear of ground water contamination.

How are Worm Castings different from Compost?
Worm Castings are significantly better than compost. They are the result of carefully selected compost that is fully digested by worm. This makes Worm Castings an entirely mature product. It contains no pathogenic agents, and is considered a biological product which is convenient to handle. Worm Castings contain a far more diverse microbial population than other composts. These micro-organisms play an important part in soil fertility. Not only do they mineralize complex substances into plant-available nutrients, but bacteria in the worm’s digestive system also synthesize a whole series of biologically active substances including plant growth hormones.

How do Worm Castings work?
Worm Castings are an all-purpose natural soil enrichment that is pure earthworm castings. It is 100% non-toxic and odourless. It is the product of aerobically composted vegetable scraps fed to earthworms, and free from weed seeds, toxins and pathogens.

WORM CASTINGS

Worm Castings improve Soil Structure in all Soil Types
Worm Castings restore soil structure. The term “soil structure” is used to describe the way soil particles are grouped into aggregates. Soil structure is affected by biological activity, organic matter, and cultivation and tillage practices. Soil fertility and structure are closely related. An ideal soil structure is often described as granular or crumb-like. It provides for good movement of air and water through a variety of different pore sizes. Plant roots extend down, and soil animals – including small earthworms – travel through the spaces between the aggregates. An ideal soil structure is also stable and resistant to erosion. The clay-humus complex, in combination with adequate calcium which helps to bind the aggregates together, forms the basis of this structure. The glutinous by-products of soil bacteria and the hair-like threads of actinomycetes and fungi mycelium add to soil stability. All tillage operations change soil structure. Excessive cultivation, especially for seedbed preparation, can harm soil structure. Working clay soil when wet leads to compaction and subsequent soil puddling. The soil is easily puddled by rain, easily eroded, and will have poor aeration. Tillage, when too dry, shatters the aggregates. Soil structure can be enhanced by careful cultivation, growing sod crops and returning crop residues. Worm Castings (organic matter) and the humification process improve structural stability, and can rebuild degraded soil structures. Therefore it is vital to return organic material to the soil and to maintain its biological activity, which helps to improve the soil structure.

How Worm Castings work with Soil pH
Worm Castings act like a buffer for plants. Where soil pH levels are too high or low, Worm Castings make soil nutrients available again to the plant. Compared to the soil itself, Worm Castings are much higher in bacteria, organic material and available nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and potassium.

WORM CASTINGS

Soil Biology
Soil organisms play an important role in forming and stabilizing soil structure. In a healthy soil ecosystem, fungal filaments and exudates from microbes and earthworms help bind soil particles together into stable aggregates that improve water infiltration and protect soil from erosion, crusting and compaction. Macrospores formed by earthworms and other burrowing creatures facilitate the movement of water into and through soil. Good soil structure enhances root development, which further improves the soil.
Restoring soil structure helps reduce runoff and improve the infiltration and filtering capacity of soil. In a healthy soil ecosystem, soil organisms reduce the impacts of pollution by buffering, detoxifying- and decomposing potential pollutants. Bacteria and other microbes are increasingly used for remediation of contaminated water and soil.
In a healthy soil ecosystem, soil biota regulates the flow and storage of nutrients in many ways. For example, they decompose plant and animal residue, fix atmospheric nitrogen, transform nitrogen and other nutrients among various organic and inorganic forms, release plant available forms of nutrients, mobilize phosphorus, and form mycorrhizal (fungus -root) associations for nutrient exchange. Even applied fertilizers may pass through soil organisms before being utilized by crops. A relatively small number of soil organisms cause plant disease. A healthy soil ecosystem has a diverse soil food web that keeps pest organisms in check through competition and predation. Some soil organisms release compounds that enhance plant growth or reduce disease susceptibility. Plants may exude specific substances that attract beneficial organisms
or repel harmful ones, especially when they are under stress from activities such as grazing.

Microbial Activity

Worm Castings stimulate microbial activity. Although earthworms derive their nutrition from microorganisms, many more microorganisms (such as bacteria, fungi and actinomycetes) are present in their feces or casts than in the organic matter that they consume. As organic matter passes through their intestines, it is fragmented and inoculated with microorganisms. Increased microbial activity facilitates the cycling of nutrients from organic matter and their conversion into forms readily taken up by plants.
Compared to synthetic fertilize r formulations, Worm Castings contain relatively low
concentrations of actual nutrients, but they perform important functions, which the synthetic formulations do not. They increase the organic content and consequently the water-holding capacity of the soil. They improve the physical structure of the soil, which allows more air to get to plant roots. Where organic sources are used for fertilizer, bacterial and fungal activity increases in the soil. Mycorrhizal fungi, which make other nutrients more available to plants, thrive in soil where the organic matter content is high.

Water Availability
Worm Castings contain a high percentage of humus. Humus helps soil particles form into clusters, which create channels for the passage of air and improve its capacity to hold water. The castings are in the form of tiny pellets which are coated with a gel. This crumb-like structure helps improve drainage and aeration.

Balancing Soil Nutrient
The ability of the microbiologically active Worm Castings to regenerate the nutrients from the atmosphere, organic matter and water allows them to replace those lost from chemical fertilizers by leaching, plant uptake and chemical reactions. In relation to moisture holding capacity and improvement of soil structure, chemical fertilizers have negligible effect, as they primarily consist of water-soluble salts. On the other hand, the aggregate nature of the Worm Castings has appreciable water holding capacity, and its use leads to restored soil structure and increases nutrient reserves in soil. The presence of nitrogen fixing bacteria in Worm Castings means that nitrogen can be fixed
from the atmosphere and converted to plant soluble nitrates. Worm Castings are rich in humus, which contains essential plant nutrients and micronutrients. Moreover, these castings are also rich in vitamins, beneficial microorganisms, antibiotics and enzymes.
Worm Castings restore soil, will not wash out with watering, and will not burn even delicate plants. Worm castings have a very soil-like texture and all the necessary nutrients that plants, crops and all types of vegetation require. The castings slowly release nutrients when required by the plants. Castings are high in soluble nitrogen, potash, potassium, calcium, magnesium and many other trace elements. Worm Castings allow plants to quickly and easily absorb all essential nutrients and trace elements. Because the earthworm grinds and uniformly mixes the nutrients and trace elements into simple forms (1 to 2 microns), plants need only minimal effort to absorb these nutrients.
SUGGESTED APPLICATION RATES
Potted Plants, Seeds, Seed Flats · Use 1 part Worm Castings to 3 parts potting soil mix
Potted Plans, Window Boxes, Hanging Baskets (established)
· Add 1 to 2 inches of Worm Castings to top of soil
· Mix in, taking care not to damage shallow roots
· Water well
· Repeat every 2 to 3 months
Lawns
(established)
· Use Worm Castings as a top dress at 10 lbs. per 1000 sq. ft.
· Apply twice a year – in spring and once again in late fall
Lawns
(new)
· Apply 10 lbs. of Worm Castings to 1000 sq. ft.
· Work lightly into topsoil
· Mix in grass seed
· Cover with shredded straw and keep watered
Roses, Trees, Bushes, Berries
(new or freshly transplanted)
· Mix 1 part Worm Castings to 3 parts soil
· Surround newly dug hole with mixture
· In the hole, spread root over a mound of the mix, and cover
Bushes · Use 5 lbs. of Worm Castings per 10 Bushes
Perennials · Work ½ cup of Worm Castings into the soil above root zone,
taking care not to damage the shallow roots
· Apply in spring, early summer, and fall
Tables and Annual Flowers · Line bottom and sides of plant holes/seed furrows with
1 to 2 inches of Worm Castings
· Set plants/seeds in place and cover with soil
During the growing season, side dress once every 2 months at a
rate of ½ cup per plant or 1 cup per linear foot of row
Gardens · Apply 5 lbs. of Worm Castings per square foot
Note: The release time for nutrients is around 4 months for continual release of nutrients.
Repeat application is recommended at 4 month intervals.
Application rates may vary depending on soil test results.

Worm castings vs. Chemical fertilizers in Soil1
Criteria for Comparison Chemical Fertilizers Worm Castings
Macro Nutrient Contents
Mostly contains only one (N in urea) or at the most two (N & P in DAP)
nutrients in any one type of chemical fertilizer
Contains all nutrients in sufficient
quantities, i.e., nitrogen (N),
phosphorus (P) and potassium (K)
Secondary Nutrient Contents
Not Available
Calcium (Ca), manganese (Mn) and sulphur (S) are available in required quantities
Micro Nutrients Contents
Not Available
Zinc (Zn), boron (B), manganese, (Mn), iron (Fe), copper (Cu), molybdenum (Mo) and chorine (Cl)
are also present
pH balancing
Distorts soil pH, which creates saline and alkaline conditions
Helps control soil pH and corrects the salinity and alkalinity in soil
EC Correction
Creates imbalance in soil EC, affecting nutrients assimilation
Helps balance the EC to improve plant nutrient adsorption
Organic Carbon
Not Available
Very high organic carbon and humus contents improve soil characteristics
Moisture Retention Capacity
Reduces moisture retention capacity of the soil
Increases moistures retention capacity of the soil
Soil Texture
Damages soil texture to reduce aeration
Improves soil texture for better aeration
Beneficial Bacteria and Fungi
Reduces biological activities and thus the fertility is impaired
Very high biological life improves the soil fertility and productivity on sustainable basis
Plant Growth Hormones
Not Available
Sufficient quantity helps in better growth and production
 
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