Grafting For Improved Yield/Vigor, what rootstock?

nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I'm going to try out grafting clones to root stock from a lower quality, but more vigorous strain/bigger yielding strain. A hemp variety may could also be a contender.

Priorities:
1. Biggest strongest root system.
2. Extra vigorous grower/yielder
3. Low cost, no bud quaity needed

What do you guy thinks would be the best root stock strain/seed?

This is common practice in Asia for tomatoes and has proven to improve yeilds by a significant margin (20-100% gain.)

Before it goes this way:
Hopps, yes it can work, but I see no point
Trees, or non-Cannabis plants, won't work, not compatible.
Just looking at strains or hemp varieties.
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I'm going to first see if I can successfully graft a clone to a male plant. Then I will try a run on a BB or BB cross freebie I'm sure I have somewhere. But final version will be using hemp, either commercial, or the biggest bitch I can find next fall in the wild. The seed price of $5+ isn't justified for this use, especially when bud quality isn't even a factor.
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
I'm going to first see if I can successfully graft a clone to a male plant. Then I will try a run on a BB or BB cross freebie I'm sure I have somewhere. But final version will be using hemp, either commercial, or the biggest bitch I can find next fall in the wild. The seed price of $5+ isn't justified for this use, especially when bud quality isn't even a factor.
Click to expand...
Ya man, any chunky monkey would work. Id go with a big bad sativa or at least a sativa leaner. Ive tried grafting before, it didnt work. Its really hard to get all the stuff right. Good luck, youll need it.
 
kmog33

kmog33

Well-Known Member
The only issue I foresee is that you want to wait long enough for the more vigorous root system to develop and grafting really only works in most cases if the stocks are the same size/thickness. And if you had a slow grower and hemp growing at the same time I think you would either have to plant the slow grower waaaay earlier, or graft really early.

http://m.wikihow.com/Graft-Plants


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I.G.Rowdit

I.G.Rowdit

Well-Known Member
Grafting is a good idea in principle but in practice I have found that there is very little, if anything, to gain. Unlike tomato there are no standard root stocks for cannabis. So there is no way to know if your grafted plant will do better than it would have done on its own roots.

It takes two weeks for a graft to heal. Once healed the scion will start to grow very vigorously but will eventually slow down to its genetically determined growth rate. So, I have not seen much reduction in total time to maturity for grafted plants. This would probably not be the case for stock plants developed for vigorous root systems like the tomato grafting stock.

I have been fooling around with grafting for a while and the most useful thing I have found to do with it is to graft a bunch of regular seedlings, wait for them to take and grow a bit then take cuttings. Put the grafted plant into 12/12 to determine which are males and which are females. Keep rooted cuttings of interest. This is just a space saver. You could accomplish the same thing by cloning your seedlings before moving them into 12/12. As I said above, just fooling around with grafting.

I have found that a side veneer graft is the easiest to do when grafting a cutting on a carcass plant. Cleft graft as used for tomato is best when stock and scion are about the same diameter. Cleft graft is much more difficult than side veneer graft.

This may sound negative but I don't mean to discourage you from trying grafting. I think there is potential. I just don't know what will be the killer app for cannabis grafting. Perhaps you will discover it.

Here are a couple of images of a recent grafting experiment. The scion (part that was grafted) is an 'afghani' seedling that was a freebie from Herbies. The stock plant (the root system) is the 'carcass' of a recently harvested Royal Queen Special Queen #1. The close up shows the callus that develops as the graft heals.

Photo one. Herbies 'afghani' seedling grafted on Special Queen #1 carcass. You can see some parafilm grafting tape still in place above base of the graft. Clothes pins below graft hold plastic bags in place for two recent grafts. I am experimenting with a peg graft and I added two grafts a couple of days ago. Early results indicate a peg graft is not very good for mature stock plants because the stem is hollow.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/emulsion1/CIMG0070_zps7kqwv6bj.jpg

Photo two. Close up of healed side veneer graft. This graft is one month old.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/emulsion1/CIMG0071_zps180lfssf.jpg
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
kmog33 said:
The only issue I foresee is that you want to wait long enough for the more vigorous root system to develop and grafting really only works in most cases if the stocks are the same size/thickness. And if you had a slow grower and hemp growing at the same time I think you would either have to plant the slow grower waaaay earlier, or graft really early.

http://m.wikihow.com/Graft-Plants


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The clones will come off a mom, you can pick the branch from the mom that is of the same approx size as the seedling.

You could graft larger or smaller seedlings, but it's probably easiest when they are big enough to handle, but not too big to where it may be more likely to shock.
 
kmog33

kmog33

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
The clones will come off a mom, you can pick the branch from the mom that is of the same approx size as the seedling.

You could graft larger or smaller seedlings, but it's probably easiest when they are big enough to handle, but not too big to where it may be more likely to shock.
Click to expand...
Yeah, grafting is pretty interesting. If it works, could be a game changer for a lot of the low yielding strains. I guess it just comes down to whether the time it takes it's worth the results lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I.G.Rowdit said:
Grafting is a good idea in principle but in practice I have found that there is very little, if anything, to gain. Unlike tomato there are no standard root stocks for cannabis. So there is no way to know if your grafted plant will do better than it would have done on its own roots.

It takes two weeks for a graft to heal. Once healed the scion will start to grow very vigorously but will eventually slow down to its genetically determined growth rate. So, I have not seen much reduction in total time to maturity for grafted plants. This would probably not be the case for stock plants developed for vigorous root systems like the tomato grafting stock.

I have been fooling around with grafting for a while and the most useful thing I have found to do with it is to graft a bunch of regular seedlings, wait for them to take and grow a bit then take cuttings. Put the grafted plant into 12/12 to determine which are males and which are females. Keep rooted cuttings of interest. This is just a space saver. You could accomplish the same thing by cloning your seedlings before moving them into 12/12. As I said above, just fooling around with grafting.

I have found that a side veneer graft is the easiest to do when grafting a cutting on a carcass plant. Cleft graft as used for tomato is best when stock and scion are about the same diameter. Cleft graft is much more difficult than side veneer graft.

This may sound negative but I don't mean to discourage you from trying grafting. I think there is potential. I just don't know what will be the killer app for cannabis grafting. Perhaps you will discover it.

Here are a couple of images of a recent grafting experiment. The scion (part that was grafted) is an 'afghani' seedling that was a freebie from Herbies. The stock plant (the root system) is the 'carcass' of a recently harvested Royal Queen Special Queen #1. The close up shows the callus that develops as the graft heals.

Photo one. Herbies 'afghani' seedling grafted on Special Queen #1 carcass. You can see some parafilm grafting tape still in place above base of the graft. Clothes pins below graft hold plastic bags in place for two recent grafts. I am experimenting with a peg graft and I added two grafts a couple of days ago. Early results indicate a peg graft is not very good for mature stock plants because the stem is hollow.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/emulsion1/CIMG0070_zps7kqwv6bj.jpg

Photo two. Close up of healed side veneer graft. This graft is one month old.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/emulsion1/CIMG0071_zps180lfssf.jpg
Click to expand...
2 weeks to heal? The tomatoes I did last year took 1-2 days to heal. Branches I'v broken off and re-attached never take more than 3-4 days to heal. I'm curious why the long recovery? We are talking about green soft stem grafting right?

Commercial hemp is grown for many of the same reasons a rootstock would be selected for (disease resistance,vigor, yield) , so I expect it will be the best option without breeding specifically for root stock.
 
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I.G.Rowdit

I.G.Rowdit

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
2 weeks to heal? The tomatoes I did last year took 1-2 days to heal. Branches I'v broken off and re-attached never take more than 3-4 days to heal. I'm curious why the long recovery? We are talking about green soft stem grafting right?

Commercial hemp is grown for many of the same reasons a rootstock would be selected for (disease resistance,vigor, yield) , so I expect it will be the best option without breeding specifically for root stock.
Click to expand...
Two weeks for a side veneer graft of a one month seedling to a mature carcass. The first week the scion is semi-wilted and does nothing. The second week it firms up and some new growth is visible. It takes about a month for the callus to form.

I agree that hemp may provide the kind of vigorous root system that will accelerate growth. I intend to give it a try when I can find a mature hemp plant to work with.

Just curious, how do you re-attach broken branches?
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I.G.Rowdit said:
Two weeks for a side veneer graft of a one month seedling to a mature carcass. The first week the scion is semi-wilted and does nothing. The second week it firms up and some new growth is visible. It takes about a month for the callus to form.

I agree that hemp may provide the kind of vigorous root system that will accelerate growth. I intend to give it a try when I can find a mature hemp plant to work with.

Just curious, how do you re-attach broken branches?
Click to expand...
Why mature? Are you trying to reduce veg and or flower time? For my intended use, more yield on low yield connoisseur grade bud, a mature stock wouldn't work as well as a seedling of a strain/hemp-variety with a more vigorous root system.
 
I.G.Rowdit

I.G.Rowdit

Well-Known Member
As I said 'fooling around with grafting'. I was trying to find a use for a harvested plant. Being a foster parent to a bunch of seedlings seemed like something that might work, so I tried it.

How do you re-attach broken branches?
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
I.G.Rowdit said:
As I said 'fooling around with grafting'. I was trying to find a use for a harvested plant. Being a foster parent to a bunch of seedlings seemed like something that might work, so I tried it.

How do you re-attach broken branches?
Click to expand...
Lol, electrical tape and liquid bandage. Tape/wire the branch so it is supported in proper position, then apply liquid bandage to re-seal the wound around the break. They don't even wilt at all. After a week I can remove the tape/wire if need be, if the branch isn't getting bigger around I just leave it on.
 
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vostok

vostok

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
I'm going to try out grafting clones to root stock from a lower quality, but more vigorous strain/bigger yielding strain. A hemp variety may could also be a contender.

Priorities:
1. Biggest strongest root system.
2. Extra vigorous grower/yielder
3. Low cost, no bud quaity needed

What do you guy thinks would be the best root stock strain/seed?

This is common practice in Asia for tomatoes and has proven to improve yeilds by a significant margin (20-100% gain.)

Before it goes this way:
Hopps, yes it can work, but I see no point
Trees, or non-Cannabis plants, won't work, not compatible.
Just looking at strains or hemp varieties.
Click to expand...
This is what I used to do with my odd herms, use the herms as the rootstock and a scion from the most desirable plant you have

allow 10 days to seal up, getting the right 'tape' for me has been a hassle,

one buddy used automotive masking tape ..lol it works ..lol

ensure the herm has been revegged also the scion need to be in veg also,

fun times it is

but bubble cloning is more reliable

good luck
 
Humanrob

Humanrob

Well-Known Member
I'm interested to hear if you find what you are looking for. Definitely wish you luck with that.

We just planted a "fruit salad" fruit tree in the back yard -- its several fruits (apricot, plum, peach... maybe something else, can't remember at the moment) grafted onto one root stock.

That is the kind of grafting I've considered -- taking clones from several of my favorite plants and making one root stock with multiple strains coming off it... the ultimate mother for space saving?
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Humanrob said:
I'm interested to hear if you find what you are looking for. Definitely wish you luck with that.

We just planted a "fruit salad" fruit tree in the back yard -- its several fruits (apricot, plum, peach... maybe something else, can't remember at the moment) grafted onto one root stock.

That is the kind of grafting I've considered -- taking clones from several of my favorite plants and making one root stock with multiple strains coming off it... the ultimate mother for space saving?
Click to expand...
I will probably make a mom like that as well.

I planted a couple of brick weed seeds a buddy gave me. Those and the males from my latest batch will be my first grafting attempts on cannabis. Unfortunately indoors will be done for the season for me before the grafted plants will have a chance to be ready. So, this test will be outdoors, probably Fire OG and The White will be my scions/clones that get grafted.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Could this be used to fuse two cuttings/infants together for a V shaped monster?. I hate the cull part.

I may give that a go. After the cuts have popped roots, pot two cuttings squeezed close together then splice each vertically at the stem a cm or two, then bind together. Complete uneducated bs talking right now but perhaps two small root masses growing side by side would accelerate veg growth?.

Or ofc I am a fool and one kills the other then decides life is not worth living alone after all.
 
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nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
Could this be used to fuse two cuttings/infants together for a V shaped monster?. I hate the cull part.

I may give that a go. After the cuts have popped roots, pot two cuttings squeezed close together then splice each vertically at the stem a cm or two, then bind together. Complete uneducated bs talking right now but perhaps two small root masses growing side by side would accelerate veg growth?.

Or ofc I am a fool and one kills the other then decides life is not worth living alone after all.
Click to expand...
Lol, those ideas can all work, the question is will they be beneficial on cannabis. Only one way to know for sure....

There is even one I saw where they are using 3 different root stocks at the same time, 3 root balls, 1 trunk.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
Lol, those ideas can all work, the question is will they be beneficial on cannabis. Only one way to know for sure....

There is even one I saw where they are using 3 different root stocks at the same time, 3 root balls, 1 trunk.
Click to expand...
Oh that sounds good. I was thinking you could combine 3 or 4 in that way as a easy way of lst. If you fim the 3-4 main colas that's already 6-8 tops in as much time as it would take to get 2 to 4 normally. I don't imagine it would be wise to veg them very long though for root bound?.
 
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