Going male?

S

Some Ironic PUN About Pot

Member
Every time I talk to young growers I always hear this "gone male". Now, I feel like stepping in and correcting them but I do not really have any factual information that sex is pre-determined through "genetics". To me I have always hypothesized that hermaphroditism was caused by a poor environment and male-female ratio was simply a role of the die (possibly with an uneven proportion).

Now I know that every Tom, Dick and Harry can come and make a post stating which they believe to be true [are males caused by poor environment or genetics?] so I think I will have to tell those people to save their fingers, I am only interested in facts and statistics, even if they are only by personal experience.
 
Some Ironic PUN About Pot said:
Every time I talk to young growers I always hear this "gone male". Now, I feel like stepping in and correcting them but I do not really have any factual information that sex is pre-determined through "genetics". To me I have always hypothesized that hermaphroditism was caused by a poor environment and male-female ratio was simply a role of the die (possibly with an uneven proportion).

Now I know that every Tom, Dick and Harry can come and make a post stating which they believe to be true [are males caused by poor environment or genetics?] so I think I will have to tell those people to save their fingers, I am only interested in facts and statistics, even if they are only by personal experience.
Click to expand...


i was ready, after reading the title to come here and talk about how plants dont "go male" they already are, or are female or turn hermie, but it seems you already know that, since you feel like correcting the young growers

i dont really know if plants have predetermined sexes. its been a debate for longer than ive been on RIU or even thinking about growing. my oppinion is that from the seed the plant already knows if its going to be male or female, and if there are light leaks and lots of stress, thats where hermies come from.

have you noticed that males, before they show, tend to grow taller faster, while females can be a runt through veg and explode as soon as flowering starts? this is really the only evidence i have that sex is predetermined
 
i know nothing about it but both options seems logic.

aligators born male or female based on the temperture the egg were laid on.
some fish types can change their sex from female to male in times of stress.


I believe (with no facts in hand really) that a plant is born with a sex and its undetermained by the enviroment.

As for hermies, from what I know each plant got a tendency to become one. either a strong tendency or a weak one.
If they already tend to become hermi (of course they can be born hermi as well) you won't need much stress to make em become one.
If they don't tend too much to become hermies they can take more stress before becoming one.

When making fem. seeds you rely on that - you stress a lot of plants and the one that keeps from becoming a hermi is the one they will clone and hermi up using chemicals.
That way the "make sure" that the seeds will have less tendency to become hermies which normally is pretty high when using hermies to produce seeds in the first place.


just my 2 cents and misspelling.
 
KaleoXxX said:
since you feel like correcting the young growers
Click to expand...

It's not that I feel like correcting the young growers, it's that when you hear it as many times as I have you feel like you need to step in and say something.

KaleoXxX said:
i dont really know if plants have predetermined sexes.
Click to expand...

I feel like you may have unknowingly contradicted yourself. At the beginning of your post you state that
KaleoXxX said:
after reading the title to come here and talk about how plants dont "go male" they already are, or are female you were coming on to say that "going male"
Click to expand...
. If they don't "go male" then they are male. Meaning it was pre-determined. Am I wrong to say this?

KaleoXxX said:
its been a debate for longer than ive been on RIU or even thinking about growing. ... if there are light leaks and lots of stress, thats where hermies come from.
Click to expand...

However, I have also found that hermaphroditism can be genetic. When you get a fully self-pollinated hermaphrodite and plant the resulting seeds you will either definately end up with a hermaphrodite or have your chances multiplied. This also clearly shows that sex (even if it's a tranny) can be predetermined through genetics, which leaves high ground for the hypothesis that homogeneous sex is genetic.

KaleoXxX said:
have you noticed that males, before they show, tend to grow taller faster, while females can be a runt through veg and explode as soon as flowering starts? this is really the only evidence i have that sex is predetermined
Click to expand...

I have also noticed many subtle characteristic differences between male and female before they start to show, however this has always been after the change in light schedule for flowering but before any preflowers were visible. I'm not sure what to think of that

:peace:
 
oh well i wasnt contradicting my self, only trying to stay partially neutral

oh and also males often show sex first, one thing i forgot to mention
 
Night Claptoman said:
i know nothing about it but both options seems logic.

aligators born male or female based on the temperture the egg were laid on.
some fish types can change their sex from female to male in times of stress.


I believe (with no facts in hand really) that a plant is born with a sex and its undetermained by the enviroment.

As for hermies, from what I know each plant got a tendency to become one. either a strong tendency or a weak one.
If they already tend to become hermi (of course they can be born hermi as well) you won't need much stress to make em become one.
If they don't tend too much to become hermies they can take more stress before becoming one.

When making fem. seeds you rely on that - you stress a lot of plants and the one that keeps from becoming a hermi is the one they will clone and hermi up using chemicals.
That way the "make sure" that the seeds will have less tendency to become hermies which normally is pretty high when using hermies to produce seeds in the first place.


just my 2 cents and misspelling.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure we can compare Alligators to marijuana, thats like... well.. that like comparing marijuana to an Alligator lol. I know what you were getting at but that is a huuge gap.

I agree with what you are saying about hermies, and I believe feminized seeds to be an abomination to nature.
 
Some Ironic PUN About Pot said:
They show show sex to the human eye first, generally speaking, but could this not be because of the rapid linear growth of male flowers?
Click to expand...

it could be

or it could be from a natural need for the pollen sacks to develop early and be able to pollinate the females as early in the summer as possible
 
KaleoXxX said:
it could be

or it could be from a natural need for the pollen sacks to develop early and be able to pollinate the females as early in the summer as possible
Click to expand...

Umm, yes. I said, because of the rapid linear growth of the flowers, all you have done is expanded on my statement but for some reason you started your sentence of with "or".

Or?

You may wanted to say it this way.

KaleoXxX said:
AND THAT could be from a natural need for the pollen sacks to develop early and be able to pollinate the females as early in the summer as possible
Click to expand...

Anyways, this doesn't have much to do with sex-predetermination. Even though I agree with your position, I'm not sure why you brought up the point that a male "shows" before a female considering that has nothing to do with the topic as stated at the beginning of this paragraph.
You seem to say it like the male "knows" before a female but what I was trying to say is that you are failing to realize that even though the changes are not visible to the human eye, as soon as you change the light cycle the plant changes it's growth cycle according to the pre-determined sex. The fact that a male flower is typically visible before the female flower only proves that male flowers have a more rapid linear growth. This COULD be because of the natural need to produce pollen for the females early as you stated, but I cannot for the life of me seem to understand how that can be used to prove that sex is pre-determined.

Anyways, I didn't mean to be rude about it but quite honestly you have come off as rude to me, much by the way you feel like correcting me by taking my statement and expanding on it then using it with "or".

"or" was the wrong way to start your post.

:peace:
 
Natural hermaphrodism is pretty rare - I've read 5%

After several grows, I've never seen a hermaphrodite. That's how rare it is.

But it's easy to cause hermaphrodism though stress.
 
Green Cross said:
Natural hermaphrodism is pretty rare - I've read 5%

After several grows, I've never seen a hermaphrodite. That's how rare it is.

But it's easy to cause hermaphrodism though stress.
Click to expand...

5% of what??

I have to disagree that natural hermaproditism even occurs. The word natural obviously comes from the root word Nature, being something that is unscathed by any secondary "force" hence the term "occurs naturally". In nature, a marijuana plant is a sexed plant which means any type of hermaphroditism would be unnatural and therefore caused by a secondary "force" such as stress or any other mishap either in its own life cycle or that of the parent plants. Some plants in nature are naturally hermaphrodites and will produce male and female flowers and will self pollinate. Cannabis has the ability to do this but only when it feel like it has to in order to reproduce. And when it is feeling like it "has to" reproduce it is because it is under some type of stress and feels like it may not live to be pollinated by a male. The genetics of cannabis will not skew "naturally".

And really 5%? where did this number come from? How do you get the stats for something like that. I mean, who knows, maybe every last one of that supposed 5% can be accounted through a hermaphrodite ancestor?

You grow 10000 bagseed plants and I GUARANTEE you will find wayy more than 5% hermaphrodites, and if you grow 10000 100% professionally bred I GURANTEE you will end up with wayy less than 5% if you know what you are doing.


Know what I mean?
 
Ever gotten feminized seed? Many of those go hermie due to genetics and NOT environment, pretty much another notch in the post for sex being determined from seed.
 
Not all feminized seed is caused by chemicals, it has plenty to do with genetics, or are you saying that hermie plants are not possible unless stressed?
 
NoDrama said:
Not all feminized seed is caused by chemicals, it has plenty to do with genetics, or are you saying that hermie plants are not possible unless stressed?
Click to expand...

You must go back and read this thread.

The cannabis plant is a SEXED plant. This means, BY NATURE, they are given either a male or a female chromosome(s). Hermaproditism only occurs when the plant feels it, for some EXTERNAL factor, will not be able to reproduce normally (being pollinated by a male cannabis plant). This is only a LAST RESORT because the genetics formed though self-pollination will become weak and weaker over following generations(thus causing what may seem to be a "born hermie").

I have grown many species of plants and it is something that is common amounst over-bred plants.

Take roses for instance. They have been so inbred over hundreds of years (to preserve the "purity" of the plants beauty) that they are now so incredibly prone to fungus, disease, and pests that they are almost too much of a hassle to grow.

Sweet peas, as another example, had been so inbred over the past century or two, that they nearly lost all of their famed scent.
Today, with our modern technology and better knowledge of horticulture and botany we have discovered many ways to improve on species. This is why I say that professionally bred seeds should end up with a <1% hermaphrodite rate supposing the genetics are clean.

Hermaproditism is a genetic error caused by an improper environment which leads to a plant to self-pollinate in order to pollinate as quick as possible (because it doesn't think it will live due to the conditions).

P.S. Yes, feminized seeds ARE treated with chemicals. Cite otherwise please. Feminized seeds are a creation of man, not nature. Lets stay on the same page here
 
"During the 1960's and 1970's some cannabis breeders took to experimenting with Colchicine. Colchicine, a powerful mutagen for both man and beast, stops cell duplication, while the cellcore duplication continues the same. The end result is a doubling or more of the chromosome set. This treatment can be beneficial to cannabis because it enforces many properties such as higher production of thc and resistance to disease. What also resulted, when gender chromosomes doubled, is that male or female chromosomes appear manifold, called Hermaphrodites. What's the plant to become? It becomes all at once. The result is called feminized or effeminate seed.
Genetically, a cannabis plant is more or less predisposed to become male or female. This is regulated by 2 chromosomes everyone knows as the X and Y chromosomes. A plant with 2 XX chromosomes becomes female. A plant with an X and Y turns into a male. Plants have hormones that regulate it's functioning, of which gender is one of those functions. The hormone balance is genetically determined, and partly influenced by environmental factors. An example is when plant roots get damaged. The roots will produce a substance that in turn slows down leaf growth. The result is male flowers. When discussing hormone balance you get FEMALE SEED: a female is a plant with XX or only female chromosomes.
When you have a seed with just X chromosomes, you are certain this seed will grow into a plant that is genetically female. To achieve the XX only plant: a female plant is forced by a hormone called Gibberellic Acid to produce male flowers, the pollen created contains only X chromosomes, when you offer this pollen to another female plant you can be absolutely certain to get seeds which are 100% XX. Once again this seed is called FEMALE SEED. Gibberellic Acid can be found in online. It takes years for an individual to achieve the proper plant hormone manipulation to get 100% female XX seed. Supplies therefore fluctuate and there are many different strains available worldwide."

So to answer your question, only the mother plant was environmentally changed with chemicals to produce male flowers ( Hermie) that pollen from the male flowers is then used to flower a DIFFERENT female plant, the seeds produced by said plant are then feminized. The plant that is creating the seed has had no chemicals applied at all, just pollen. You can look this up as much as you want, you will find that feminized seed had no chemicals applied at all to make it that way, its all in the genetics.

FWIW I did read the thread, but since the information is not factually correct I cannot support your theory.


http://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/feminized-marijuana-seeds.html
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/node/394

You will notice no one ever applies a chemical to the seed.
 
NoDrama said:
"During the 1960's and 1970's some cannabis breeders took to experimenting with Colchicine. Colchicine, a powerful mutagen for both man and beast, stops cell duplication, while the cellcore duplication continues the same. The end result is a doubling or more of the chromosome set. This treatment can be beneficial to cannabis because it enforces many properties such as higher production of thc and resistance to disease. What also resulted, when gender chromosomes doubled, is that male or female chromosomes appear manifold, called Hermaphrodites. What's the plant to become? It becomes all at once. The result is called feminized or effeminate seed.
Genetically, a cannabis plant is more or less predisposed to become male or female. This is regulated by 2 chromosomes everyone knows as the X and Y chromosomes. A plant with 2 XX chromosomes becomes female. A plant with an X and Y turns into a male. Plants have hormones that regulate it's functioning, of which gender is one of those functions. The hormone balance is genetically determined, and partly influenced by environmental factors. An example is when plant roots get damaged. The roots will produce a substance that in turn slows down leaf growth. The result is male flowers. When discussing hormone balance you get FEMALE SEED: a female is a plant with XX or only female chromosomes.
When you have a seed with just X chromosomes, you are certain this seed will grow into a plant that is genetically female. To achieve the XX only plant: a female plant is forced by a hormone called Gibberellic Acid to produce male flowers, the pollen created contains only X chromosomes, when you offer this pollen to another female plant you can be absolutely certain to get seeds which are 100% XX. Once again this seed is called FEMALE SEED. Gibberellic Acid can be found in online. It takes years for an individual to achieve the proper plant hormone manipulation to get 100% female XX seed. Supplies therefore fluctuate and there are many different strains available worldwide."

So to answer your question, only the mother plant was environmentally changed with chemicals to produce male flowers ( Hermie) that pollen from the male flowers is then used to flower a DIFFERENT female plant, the seeds produced by said plant are then feminized. The plant that is creating the seed has had no chemicals applied at all, just pollen. You can look this up as much as you want, you will find that feminized seed had no chemicals applied at all to make it that way, its all in the genetics.

FWIW I did read the thread, but since the information is not factually correct I cannot support your theory.


http://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/feminized-marijuana-seeds.html
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/node/394

You will notice no one ever applies a chemical to the seed.
Click to expand...


I see nowhere in this "article" about how a feminized seed forms naturally.

NoDrama said:
You will notice no one ever applies a chemical to the seed.
Click to expand...

You must be dumber than a bag of hammers, and 10 times as useless.

It doesn't matter what gets treated or how, the fact is "feminized genetics" are not NATURAL and do not happen naturally. Just as hermaphrodites. They are the result of an external factor, being treated with a chemical and poor environmental conditions respectively.

You aren't getting what I am saying, you are being a randy, pompous jackass who is finding and using irrelevant articles to sound "well read".

I see though you, go pick a fight somewhere else
 
the clone was taken then each could have dif. sex all from the same mother. and if this can not be proven then sex is determined at seed


some one who has time and space needs to test this so it could be laid to rest

take clones as extriemely early as possibly to see if the sex will differ, if it does not then i would have to conclude that sex is decided by the father's pollin when it makes contact with the mothers bud and produce a seed. just as in every other liveing thing on this planet- im not saying im right, just saying this is what i feel to be right-yes stress can indues male parts on a female
but at the same time hermi is a survivel technic that plant use to continue there blood line -it is known that in human high levels of stress can cause unwanted result in unborn humans(undeveloped organ, lembs,brains, and other things, but humans are much more complex)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Plant Cloning Issues, What's Going On?
2 3
Replies
41
Views
5K
medidedicated
medidedicated
Thatoneguyyouknow_
Long time grower returns to the life
Replies
4
Views
1K
Thatoneguyyouknow_
Thatoneguyyouknow_
Blackketch
Hermie in 2nd week flower | Few balls on lower branch
Replies
12
Views
3K
Blackketch
Blackketch
G
Autoflower Mazar + Moby Dick end of week 8 still producing only pistils not starting to form buds
Replies
7
Views
1K
greenlink
G
E
Is this Tobacco Mosaic Virus? Almost three straight YEARS of total crop failure. Should I nuke the grow-op?
3 4 5
Replies
91
Views
10K
curious2garden
curious2garden
Back
Top