giving defoliation during flower a try

Uncle Ben said:

Not true. I used to get at least 10 oz dried bud per plant on plants that would get up to 5' tall indoors.

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I am going to take it easy on you, and lead with the really obvious problems first.

1. Grow rooms, by their very nature, have a ceiling. Most of us only have about eight feet to work with. Somewhere between the top of your growing medium and the bottom of your light is the maximum height of the plant. In most cases, this is not more than about four feet.
2. Taller plants have a higher center of gravity. If a two foot plant in a five gallon pot puts on a few pounds of wet buds, it is just a nice plant. That same weight on six foot plant can tip the whole plant and pot right over. This is an even bigger problem if you allow your growing medium to dry out. Now think about dominoes.
3. Plants that grow tall quickly often have flimsy stems. Once the buds put on some weight, this is going to mean a lot of work staking, caging and tying, or a lot of bent and broken branches
4. The taller the plant, the more stem you find between the roots and the buds, presenting two problems. The plant has used a ton of energy to grow that long stalk that it could have used for grow big fat buds instead. Additionally, the plant must spend further energy pumping water and nutrients against gravity to a higher elevation than necessary.
5. CO2 is heavier than air and settles in grow rooms close to the floor. This means the roots are receiving much more CO2 than the leaves and flowers, when it should be the other way around.
6. Tall plants cast longer shadows and decrease the available light to their neighbors.
7. When plants grow to be tall, the distance between the light and the lower branches increases. According to light intensity principles and the inverse square law, as the distance between leaves and light source increases, the lumens reaching those leaves rapidly diminish. On tall plants, the higher leaves usually shade the lower branches preventing direct light. The only light that can penetrate the thick foliage to the lower branches is far red light between about 760 and 800 nanometers. Far red light activates phytochrome far red (PFR) which signals the shaded branches to stretch to compete for more light, exacerbating the problem further.

Fwiw, if I only grew this plant, I'd never touch a leaf again in my life. It doesn't have that many to begin with.




This stupid strain, I'll punch it in the face if I grow it again. It's stupid. It grows so many leaves and stays so damn short, that it becomes problematic. It needs the grower to lay down some frame work or it yields like crap. This batch will yield like crap as I didn't do anything to them except cut some leaves in half that were soaking wet from heavy overlapping issues.

jacksthc said:

I am going to take it easy on you, and lead with the really obvious problems first.

1. Grow rooms, by their very nature, have a ceiling. Most of us only have about eight feet to work with. Somewhere between the top of your growing medium and the bottom of your light is the maximum height of the plant. In most cases, this is not more than about four feet.
2. Taller plants have a higher center of gravity. If a two foot plant in a five gallon pot puts on a few pounds of wet buds, it is just a nice plant. That same weight on six foot plant can tip the whole plant and pot right over. This is an even bigger problem if you allow your growing medium to dry out. Now think about dominoes.
3. Plants that grow tall quickly often have flimsy stems. Once the buds put on some weight, this is going to mean a lot of work staking, caging and tying, or a lot of bent and broken branches
4. The taller the plant, the more stem you find between the roots and the buds, presenting two problems. The plant has used a ton of energy to grow that long stalk that it could have used for grow big fat buds instead. Additionally, the plant must spend further energy pumping water and nutrients against gravity to a higher elevation than necessary.
5. CO2 is heavier than air and settles in grow rooms close to the floor. This means the roots are receiving much more CO2 than the leaves and flowers, when it should be the other way around.
6. Tall plants cast longer shadows and decrease the available light to their neighbors.
7. When plants grow to be tall, the distance between the light and the lower branches increases. According to light intensity principles and the inverse square law, as the distance between leaves and light source increases, the lumens reaching those leaves rapidly diminish. On tall plants, the higher leaves usually shade the lower branches preventing direct light. The only light that can penetrate the thick foliage to the lower branches is far red light between about 760 and 800 nanometers. Far red light activates phytochrome far red (PFR) which signals the shaded branches to stretch to compete for more light, exacerbating the problem further.

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A good co2 enriched room has a sensor keeping the room at the desired co2 levels, so 5. is not correct sir. And most co2 sensors are at canopy level. And as far as 7. learning how to tie down plants in flower at the right time does wonders and allows persons to lower the lamps. This technique is great for folks who want a short veg time with plenty of tops. Do all this, meaning short veg times, tie over lead/leads growth in flower, and co2 enrichment. You'll have massive yields. But there are tons of ways to garden. This is just what i do.

As for this style grow, 8 plants per light, medium sized plants, (day 1 of flower), it would be wise to lollipop and take all the stuff off under the net that does not reach the first trellis. Wait until the plants are about done stretching. Never know what branches will try to compete. These plants will stretch at least 2.5x and have two trellises. There is absolutely no point in leaving anything under the first net, it will cause issues down the road and will not yield anything at all if left to grow.

That's my take on things. Never take all your leaves off. Never take them off for no reason. Grow your strains out with out doing anything except topping them if it's a new strain, see how it grows first, then if there are problems, take care of what needs to be done without being too invasive.

jacksthc said:

I am going to take it easy on you, and lead with the really obvious problems first.

1. Grow rooms, by their very nature, have a ceiling. Most of us only have about eight feet to work with. Somewhere between the top of your growing medium and the bottom of your light is the maximum height of the plant. In most cases, this is not more than about four feet.
2. Taller plants have a higher center of gravity. If a two foot plant in a five gallon pot puts on a few pounds of wet buds, it is just a nice plant. That same weight on six foot plant can tip the whole plant and pot right over. This is an even bigger problem if you allow your growing medium to dry out. Now think about dominoes.
3. Plants that grow tall quickly often have flimsy stems. Once the buds put on some weight, this is going to mean a lot of work staking, caging and tying, or a lot of bent and broken branches
4. The taller the plant, the more stem you find between the roots and the buds, presenting two problems. The plant has used a ton of energy to grow that long stalk that it could have used for grow big fat buds instead. Additionally, the plant must spend further energy pumping water and nutrients against gravity to a higher elevation than necessary.
5. CO2 is heavier than air and settles in grow rooms close to the floor. This means the roots are receiving much more CO2 than the leaves and flowers, when it should be the other way around.
6. Tall plants cast longer shadows and decrease the available light to their neighbors.
7. When plants grow to be tall, the distance between the light and the lower branches increases. According to light intensity principles and the inverse square law, as the distance between leaves and light source increases, the lumens reaching those leaves rapidly diminish. On tall plants, the higher leaves usually shade the lower branches preventing direct light. The only light that can penetrate the thick foliage to the lower branches is far red light between about 760 and 800 nanometers. Far red light activates phytochrome far red (PFR) which signals the shaded branches to stretch to compete for more light, exacerbating the problem further.

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A guy that's growing using 40W lamps and probably has only one or two gardens under his belt, is gonna take it easy on me?

I was growing pot and teaching plant culture while you were still messing in your shorts.

It's time you started reading my threads on this issue. It will surely be a humbling experience.

Dude said messing in your shorts........ HaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaHaaaaa!!!!!!!! Thats was funny.

Labs Dexter said:

Lol orchids we are on about bud here mate.

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You missed the point.

Never mind.

a mongo frog said:

Dude said messing in your shorts........ HaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaHaaaaa!!!!!!!! Thats was funny.

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These kids......

Now you fucked us out of some learning @Labs Dexter. Dude was about to go into apical dominance and he said never mind. Fuckkkkkkk.........

a mongo frog said:

A good co2 enriched room has a sensor keeping the room at the desired co2 levels, so 5. is not correct sir. And most co2 sensors are at canopy level. And as far as 7. learning how to tie down plants in flower at the right time does wonders and allows persons to lower the lamps. This technique is great for folks who want a short veg time with plenty of tops. Do all this, meaning short veg times, tie over lead/leads growth in flower, and co2 enrichment. You'll have massive yields. But there are tons of ways to garden. This is just what i do.

Click to expand...

"CO2 is heavier than air" and settles in grow rooms close to the floor. This means the roots are receiving much more CO2 than the leaves and flowers, when it should be the other way around

shorter plants are more likly to recive more C02 than taller plants, thats all I am saying

tie down plants in flower would keep them short, yer this is a good way to keep them 3ft tall, not sure what this has to do with growing a 5ft plant ?

jacksthc said:

"CO2 is heavier than air" and settles in grow rooms close to the floor. This means the roots are receiving much more CO2 than the leaves and flowers, when it should be the other way around

shorter plants are more likly to recive more C02 than taller plants, thats all I am saying

tie down plants in flower would keep them short, yer this is a good way to keep them 3ft tall, not sure what this has to do with growing a 5ft plant ?

Click to expand...

You missed the point. Never mind.

Uncle Ben said:

A guy that's growing using 40W lamps and probably has only one or two gardens under his belt, is gonna take it easy on me?

I was growing pot and teaching plant culture while you were still messing in your shorts.

It's time you started reading my threads on this issue. It will surely be a humbling experience.

Click to expand...

LOL i have done over 50 crops, you talk a lot but never see any of your cops





I thinned out 20% of the fan leaves in early flower to control the canopy growth

a mongo frog said:

You missed the point. Never mind.

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I didn't miss the point "A good co2 enriched room has a sensor keeping the room at the desired co2 levels"

if the plants are shorter you need to use less co2 which can help to reduce the heat in the grow room, ( CO2 Generators produce heat) also less foliage in reduces humidty

Uncle Ben said:

A guy that's growing using 40W lamps and probably has only one or two gardens under his belt, is gonna take it easy on me?

I was growing pot and teaching plant culture while you were still messing in your shorts.

It's time you started reading my threads on this issue. It will surely be a humbling experience.

Click to expand...

what because you have done the odd outdoor crop over the last 20 years, you really have no ideal what your talking about, you just read a lot of books and write posts on here

a mongo frog said:

Now you fucked us out of some learning @Labs Dexter. Dude was about to go into apical dominance and he said never mind. Fuckkkkkkk.........

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wow I am suprised you know what it means, best tell uncle ben

jacksthc said:

what because you have done the odd outdoor crop over the last 20 years, you really have no ideal what your talking about, you just read a lot of books and write posts on here

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Oh snap!!!! Don't forget he's got some shit published in the #1 selling grow bible.

jacksthc said:

I didn't miss the point "A good co2 enriched room has a sensor keeping the room at the desired co2 levels"

if the plants are shorter you need to use less co2 which can help to reduce the heat in the grow room, ( CO2 Generators produce heat) also less foliage in reduces humidty

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Those do look good. The 20% leaf removal on some strains can totally help and control aspects of the environment, no doubt.

jacksthc said:

wow I am suprised you know what it means, best tell uncle ben

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Why are you trying to hurt my feelings bro? I would never do that to you.

not trying to hurt your fellings, I am sure UB like a bit of banter so we wind each other up from time to time
you joined in, no hard feeling fellow

UB does it a lot on the site, thats why his post count is so high

jacksthc said:

not trying to hurt your fellings, I am sure UB like a bit of banter so we wind each other up from time to time
you joined in, no hard feeling fellow

UB does it a lot of the site, thats why his post count is so high

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Your just acting like a hot shot thats all. I appreciate your pics and info you share, but you don't have to act like your always right about things. We all do big grows like you do, we've all tested different styles that suit us. I love you
a lot, your just sending me mixed messages.