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Active Member
Energy does not only come from nutrients - without fan leaves producing ATP and other carbohydrates, those buds don't get that energy. You can take SOME leaves off, but not many.
giving defoliation during flower a try
- Thread starter Gucc1M3ng
- Start date
subgrounds
Active Member
uff. I feel stupid. I had just woken up, and looking back, he wasn't even talking to me. gaaaawd
subgrounds
Active Member
Sorry, Uncle Ben. Either way you still have way more experience than me, I should've respected..
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Again N/A. I'm replying to your bad example plants and nonsense claims, you're making up pathetic shit. I don't care what a piece of shit you are in real life, I'm just refuting your utter nonsense.
Yes yes and recently "got acknowledged for receiving 1000 Likes"
And you got 7000 posts... you mentioned that before yes. It still means nothing... Besides that my oldest online grow is 7 years old and those plants looks a helluvalot better than yours skinny lanky plants, even under T8... I told you before this is not about you vs me as much as you like to pretend it is.And yes, I ignored your picture. Requires more than half a brain to figure out why...
Nobody is interested in you parroting the same old stupid forum nonsense and nobody is interested in you sharing your flaws and insecurities by projecting them on an imaginary person... or stories about your dead mother. All classic ad hominem from someone without valid arguments and only bullshit to parrot.
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
It is quite obvious that those in the defoliation camp,(you know the kewl ones that have discovered a whole new way of growing based on cosmic energy) have never grown anything other that pot via the wisdom of the blind leading the blind. Nor have they worked along side a seasoned conventional gardener, one that has a commercial op growing in greenhouses, a nurseryman, a farmer.....
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
can anyone explain this ?
why did my plant grow like this if some defoliation in veg and flower, don't work ?
I defoliation this plant in veg and again in flower, about day 10 in flower 12/12, just removed all the fan leaves from the top of the plant
I did pull the sides down a Little but over a couple of weeks the side shoots pulled back up
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
balance of light, water and c02, just like a chain its only as strong as the weakest link
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Results look good jack, but what makes you conclude it's thanks to defoliation and not despite? What "exactly" do you mean by it works?
Revegged monstercrop sativa dom, no defoliation till a couple of days before harvest (verifiable in my pic journal...) :
Indica dom, no defoliation till about 5 days before harvest (humidity being a bitch in the summer), one of the leafiest plants I've grown. Long petioles too.
In the canopy control thread there's a grow from me with a ridiculous way too full packed 3x4 closet in which I got barely a gram of popcorn.
It should now be obvious why posting a picture means so little. There are plenty of examples of pictures of non-defoliated plants with rock hard nuggets at the bottom so according to your own (and fellow-defoliators' ) logic there's no point. I posted many more examples in other threads in response to such misleading examples, including one of a plant that was grown half under the canopy of another plant (in canopy control and supercropping thread).
I've said it many times in similar discussions, all the arguments defoliators use for ripping of leaves are situations that should have been avoided in the first place, like improper plant and bud site spacing, improper ventilation and airflow, bad genetics (some are just too leafy), bad nutrient regime, and growing stretchy plants under crappy household leds. So when you say it works, I can agree if that means unfucking a situation that should have been avoided in the first place. Defoliation is not a means to increase yields however, 1 cola with enough space can yield as much as 4 colitas (small colas) but with 4 times less amount of leaves.
What many croppers and scroggers don't get is that you try to get a similar situation as a SoG (highest yielding grow style used for decades to supply to dutch coffeeshops (google 'hennepkwekerij' and see images result). It's not about getting the highest number of buds sites. See my post here which includes a drawing to make it more clear: http://rollitup.org/t/grams-per-watt-in-peat-moss.842640/#post-10845488
Revegged monstercrop sativa dom, no defoliation till a couple of days before harvest (verifiable in my pic journal...) :
Indica dom, no defoliation till about 5 days before harvest (humidity being a bitch in the summer), one of the leafiest plants I've grown. Long petioles too.
In the canopy control thread there's a grow from me with a ridiculous way too full packed 3x4 closet in which I got barely a gram of popcorn.
It should now be obvious why posting a picture means so little. There are plenty of examples of pictures of non-defoliated plants with rock hard nuggets at the bottom so according to your own (and fellow-defoliators' ) logic there's no point. I posted many more examples in other threads in response to such misleading examples, including one of a plant that was grown half under the canopy of another plant (in canopy control and supercropping thread).
I've said it many times in similar discussions, all the arguments defoliators use for ripping of leaves are situations that should have been avoided in the first place, like improper plant and bud site spacing, improper ventilation and airflow, bad genetics (some are just too leafy), bad nutrient regime, and growing stretchy plants under crappy household leds. So when you say it works, I can agree if that means unfucking a situation that should have been avoided in the first place. Defoliation is not a means to increase yields however, 1 cola with enough space can yield as much as 4 colitas (small colas) but with 4 times less amount of leaves.
What many croppers and scroggers don't get is that you try to get a similar situation as a SoG (highest yielding grow style used for decades to supply to dutch coffeeshops (google 'hennepkwekerij' and see images result). It's not about getting the highest number of buds sites. See my post here which includes a drawing to make it more clear: http://rollitup.org/t/grams-per-watt-in-peat-moss.842640/#post-10845488
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
i said this before, it would be interesting to know how they "survive defoliation"
since the leaves are the "solar panels", how do they survive without them and can go on to produce decent colas
are the tiny bud leaves now responsible for all the photosynthesis, when the larger leaves are removed
from the theory, the plant should look much worse it should hardly be-able to build flowers at all but they seem to cope with it,
i have lots of pics of plants with very few leaves and large colas
but also plants full of leaves with large colas too, i do not believe you really gain anything
its compensating for lack of space, if a plant had light all around it hitting all the leaves and colas
why remove any leaves ?
if you find a sativa like kalimist or something that makes virtually any leaves
and compare this to a very leafy indica , these plants could be the opposite expressions from the same cross
or sisters from a indica x sativa hybrid, so the amount of leaves a plant "needs" to grow varies hugely naturally also
i have had some indica plants respond badly, so as a rule i tend to avoid removing leaves from those types
if my sativas get too crowded i don't mind picking a few leaves off
peace
Easy....
It grew that way because of genetics, and the fact that the cannabis plant is a resilient motherfucker.
Case in point, THESE motherfuckers.....
Talk about some abused plants!
Amazingly enough, they STILL produced bud though.
If it wasn't for the fact that cannabis is so damn resilient, most of us would probably NEVER get a decent harvest.
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
you have good looking plants
In flower the plant started to stretch and so I removed a lot of the top fan leaves to reduce the stretch and keep the nodes spacing short , get the lower shoots to grow up the sides and keep the canopy level in the flower room
the reason why I said this works is defoliation the top of this plant gave me the highest yielding plant I have ever grown for the space it took up in the flower room
I have tried it a few time since and all the plants have yielded a lot of bud every time with different strains
often I try different ways of training my plants just too see how it turns out
yeh I have also tried monstercrop and found a lot of the fan leaves grow twisted and look messed up for a few weeks in veg, this is when you get loads of shoots growing and receiving the same amount of light, the plant can't work out which shoots is the dom shoot and will give you same results as a plant trimmed in veg and early flower
that's what I have been aiming for, training the plants in veg and flower to give me control over how the plant grows
with mostercroping its down to luck but I know how to get a plant to grow like it with mostercroping it
here some examples
I go for really leafy plants so I have more control over how they grow
I do agree with most of what you have said but I train a plant to grow the way I want it to, you pic the plant that grows the way you want it too
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
if a plant had light all around it hitting all the leaves and colas
why remove any leaves ?
only reason I do it is in veg and early flower to control node spacing and the canopy shape but after 2 weeks in flower I don't touch any fan leaves if the light all around it hitting all the leaves and colas
at this point its a wast of time and would probable reduce my crop
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
a plant don't just grow like that because of geneticsEasy....
It grew that way because of genetics, and the fact that the cannabis plant is a resilient motherfucker.
Case in point, THESE motherfuckers.....
Talk about some abused plants!
Amazingly enough, they STILL produced bud though.
If it wasn't for the fact that cannabis is so damn resilient, most of us would probably NEVER get a decent harvest.
it helps but there a lot more too it
I agree.
However, they sure as HELL don't grow that way because they've had all her fan leaves removed either.
Look at the pic I posted showing 3 natural plants and 3 defoliated plants and think about how much MORE bud your plants would have produced if she didn't get her fan leaves yanked.
15%?
30%?
More?
Who knows.
Best of luck, regardless.
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
Maybe I am not wording it right or somthing not sure but
I don't agrea with Defoliated every fan leaf on a plant
This is the way I see it
Every fan leaf on a plat will affect the shoot adjacent to it and the main shoot its on
so you need to know how evey
fan leaf will affect the plant if you remove it and work out if its a good move or not
Thats what I do in veg and early flower
In mid flower my plants are full of fan leaves and I don't remove them
subgrounds
Active Member
Good god, this thread is insane. I'm out.
Cubicfrost
New Member
Hello! My first post, as I waited 2 months for my confirmation email to join this forum I really needed to post on like 2 months ago.
Anyways this is a hot topic between me and a friend. Anyways he believes in defoliating and I do not.
Here's how I see it; simplest way to say..
Fan leaves grow roots.
More plant above dirt, more roots below dirt. Each fan leaf has veins that I suppose are linked to its own root below. The fan leaf makes food, root stores it. Then when it buds, the food storage in the root feeds through the branch forming bud.
If you destroy a fan leaf I imagine you killing the root it runs to below therefore killing your buds reserve. That's how I see it. I used to play hide and seek in plants when I was like 3. It's my way or life.
Anyways this is a hot topic between me and a friend. Anyways he believes in defoliating and I do not.
Here's how I see it; simplest way to say..
Fan leaves grow roots.
More plant above dirt, more roots below dirt. Each fan leaf has veins that I suppose are linked to its own root below. The fan leaf makes food, root stores it. Then when it buds, the food storage in the root feeds through the branch forming bud.
If you destroy a fan leaf I imagine you killing the root it runs to below therefore killing your buds reserve. That's how I see it. I used to play hide and seek in plants when I was like 3. It's my way or life.
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
You could be right about fan leaves growing the roots but not about removeing fan leaves, kill the roots as when you cut 95% of the plant back to reveg the roots would rot and I don't think the plant would survive
At best the plant would be really crippled by the large mass of rotting roots, the ph levels would be all over the place just like when you get root rot in a dwc and I am sure lots of you have had that
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
you can trim up the roots, they will grow new roots,
roots drying out is much worse if a pump fails or whatever
sometimes i will cut directly through the root system of plants growing in the same system (NFT spreader mat) to remove males and dead roots from males
i can then transfer them into another system for better spacing, they do not appear to suffer, no wilting or anything
they start growing new roots within a few days
i have had a plant in a system that was spitting out new roots daily the pump failed the roots dried out some when brown
the plant never wilted but the roots stopped growing for a long time
peace