Gateway To Heaven
- Thread starter mizzchewy
- Start date
undertheice
Well-Known Member
the stairway is actually a dead end. the only access is an express elevator hidden behind the rose bushes and you have to tip the operator generously.
email468
Well-Known Member
My understanding of Christian doctrine is the only way to get to heaven is believe that God sacrificed his son (Jesus) because humanity sinned and Jesus rose from the dead to sit by Father God to become divine judge.
So you have to 1 - believe in God, 2 - believe that Jesus was God's son and he died for your sins, 3 - believe that Jesus rose from the dead to become one with God, 4 - you also have to admit you are a sinner and ask God/Jesus for forgiveness and I'm assuming you must mean it (cause i would guess god has ways to figure if you're bullshitting him or not).
and oh yeah - you must never have blasphemed the Holy Spirit - that is the one unforgivable sin.
and the theory is - if you really believe then you'll want to follow the other stuff that is in the bible and be more "godly" in your every day life.
So you have to 1 - believe in God, 2 - believe that Jesus was God's son and he died for your sins, 3 - believe that Jesus rose from the dead to become one with God, 4 - you also have to admit you are a sinner and ask God/Jesus for forgiveness and I'm assuming you must mean it (cause i would guess god has ways to figure if you're bullshitting him or not).
and oh yeah - you must never have blasphemed the Holy Spirit - that is the one unforgivable sin.
and the theory is - if you really believe then you'll want to follow the other stuff that is in the bible and be more "godly" in your every day life.
PoseidonsNet
Well-Known Member
NO.
No, again.
The parrable of the Good Samartian proves that all you need to do to get to heaven is be a good person. Many other verses say this in many places.
Read the bible if you wish to discuss it, don't think you know what it says because of heresay. READ it at least 3 times, or you will misunderstand what it says.
Biggravy22
Well-Known Member
I agree with the bolded part. There are sins, and then there are transgressions placed upon the human spirit. Being a serial killer means that
your soul is tainted; but If you kill a man in a period of insanity then I believe god looks at that differently. Maybe im a dilluted christian, but I don't believe that god has it in his heart to damn someone to eternal pain
who clearly doesn't have that type of sorrow in his heart.
email468
Well-Known Member
To be clear, I am an agnostic that leans towards atheism and I have read the bible (which explains my atheism). And while Christian doctrine recommends being a good person, being a Christian requires a belief in Christ's divinity. There may be a few sects that don't require this but they are few and far between. If you really want me to quote biblical verse i will but i don't think that will be necessary if you really have read it.
Of course if you do your own interpretation of the bible and don't attend any kind of church you can define it anyway you want i suppose. But don't pretend that being a good person is more important than belief in Christ's divinity as predominate Christine doctrine cause it ain't and i think you know it.
Of course if you do your own interpretation of the bible and don't attend any kind of church you can define it anyway you want i suppose. But don't pretend that being a good person is more important than belief in Christ's divinity as predominate Christine doctrine cause it ain't and i think you know it.
email468
Well-Known Member
the ten commandments are straight out of Exodus - one of the older old testament books. Christians tend to pick and choose which of the old testament laws to adapt and which to throw out. The ten commandments are a great example of this picking and choosing.
my personal feelings on the ten commandments is whoever is claiming we should live by them and fights to have them in government buildings should at least be able to name all of them before continuing their fight
as a self-administered test, how many folks who consider themselves christian can name all ten? It is a rhetorical question and requires no real answer - just some food for thought.
Dopalicious
Well-Known Member
Eph. 2:8-9,
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, lest any man should boast."
armand
Active Member
i can't them all, but i know i've broke all, but one. and i think i've broken all of the seven deadly sins in the past, and currently break 3 of the 7 sins on a daily basis.the ten commandments are straight out of Exodus - one of the older old testament books. Christians tend to pick and choose which of the old testament laws to adapt and which to throw out. The ten commandments are a great example of this picking and choosing.
my personal feelings on the ten commandments is whoever is claiming we should live by them and fights to have them in government buildings should at least be able to name all of them before continuing their fight
as a self-administered test, how many folks who consider themselves christian can name all ten? It is a rhetorical question and requires no real answer - just some food for thought.
ZenMaster
Well-Known Member
Kind of,the ten commandments are straight out of Exodus - one of the older old testament books. Christians tend to pick and choose which of the old testament laws to adapt and which to throw out. The ten commandments are a great example of this picking and choosing.
my personal feelings on the ten commandments is whoever is claiming we should live by them and fights to have them in government buildings should at least be able to name all of them before continuing their fight
as a self-administered test, how many folks who consider themselves christian can name all ten? It is a rhetorical question and requires no real answer - just some food for thought.
The New Testament was created to replace the old. In the Old Testament, the philosophy was an eye for an eye, and back then, that way of life was required for such a harsh world. The New Testament was turn the other cheek philosophy, which in turn was suited for a completely new world. There are huge differences between the old and the new, mainly the amount of miracles endured in the old.
I have long speculated on this, and I have reasoned why there were massive amounts of miracles in the Old Testament is because God had to prove he was there, humans cannot just start believing in something, and that is why it had to be done. In the new world, it is a test of faith, and that is what it comes down to.
Now for
It is faith that leads you to heaven. Have you ever prayed? Have you ever opened up and attempted to communicate with God? If so, have you alway done it mentally and never speak outloud in your prayers due to fear of embarrassment or lack of faith? Trust me, if you truly pray with your heart and soul, you will get a response.
Non-believers ridicule this, but it is to them that receive my pity. They do not know, they will never know, unless they cast aside pride and have humility toward the Creator.
We are all children of God, you are not just another face in the crowd, amongst the billions on this planet. You are an individual with your unique talents and persona. God said in the Bible that he knows the hairs on your head, he knows you before you were born.
Everyone, no matter if you were born wealthy in Scandinavia, or born in a tribe in Ethiopia, you are given AT LEAST 1 opportunity to follow God.
email468
Well-Known Member
To be clear, what you say may or may not be factual but it is your belief and understanding correct?
ZenMaster
Well-Known Member
No.
I have long argued that we, humans, do not know anything. Anything. We are truly ignorant as we scurry about our daily lives, wrapped up in our sociology and reality.
I understand that we could be completely wrong on everything we know, all the laws of physics, chemistry, hell our own bodies.
Except for this.
I could be wrong on the Bible, hell, it has been modified so much that is now a loose idea from the original.
But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt there is a God and praying works. It is one of the very very few things that I am 100% on.
email468
Well-Known Member
You are free to think that way but I personally have a hard time understanding your point of view and think you are mistaken.
ZenMaster
Well-Known Member
Enlighten me.
Is it science that distances you from God? Is it something that happened to you and you wonder why God let such things happen? Is it that you cannot fathom that God can micromanage in a sea of people?
What is it that you cannot accept that there is an architect to our universe and a force that is directly influencing our lives?
Please keep in mind that I am not trying to come off condescending, it is that I have had these questions myself and I have made peace with them and found solace, and perhaps I could be of some help to you in your quest to find tranquility.
email468
Well-Known Member
I've read enough of your posts to know when you are being condescending (I think)
And to be honest, i think the burden of proof is on someone claiming something exists since I can't "prove" a negative.
But to answer your question directly - it is evidence. I see no evidence of an interventionist deity - in fact i see quite the opposite.
I would add that zealots certainly don't help the case for god much either.