Fungi/Bacteria Nitrogen sink?

Discussion in 'Advanced Marijuana Cultivation' started by Los Reefersaurus, Jul 30, 2017.

    Los Reefersaurus

    Los Reefersaurus Well-Known Member

    I have been messing with fungi and bacteria a bit lately or at least with a very few strains that I can get my hands on since everything seems to be illegal now. I have found some very positive root growth when Glomus Intraradice is introduced to the roots. It seems to be readily setting up fungi webs and playing nice with the plants.

    Previous to this I started growing micro clover as a companion plant . I have inoculated the clover with the Rhizobium bacteria as to induce it to store Nitrogen in little pods in its roots.

    What I am wondering is if the Fungi Glomus Intraradice will eventually network the clover to the plants thus giving the plants access to the Nitrogen sacks on the clover roots. I do understand that normally the nitrogen that is made by the infected clover is not available till it died and tilled into the soil, but I wonder if this fungi web will allow this network to skip this step and access this nitrogen immediately

    Any thoughts?
    SonsOfAvery likes this.

    4(207) Well-Known Member

    Interesting! How would you observe that phenomenon, other than to judge by the introduction of Glomus Intraradice to a test plant in a side by side study? And tracking visual results? Really cool topic. It would take further research for me to understand if it was a possibility. I have a feeling that it may not be; I'm not a degree holding scientist or anything but was mentored by a chemical engineer with extensive experience in botany. Been in a greenhouse the past 20 years and I always attempt to learn more and constantly refine methods... Do you think this specific fungi relationship is possible?
    Uncle Reefer

    Uncle Reefer Well-Known Member

    A little follow up. This is who was once Los Reefersaurus. No one could read the name without mumbling so I changed it.

    I did manage to get the Rhizo balls going right away on the clover roots without composting the first batch, so that was a plus.
    There was a lot of PITA factor with trying to companion plant micro clover.
    It worked great on fussy plants that were not growing well and leaving big gaps for light penetration.
    Anecdotally I will say that these miserable plants did look better than miserable plants from previous runs, they did seem to not be suffering from N and Mg deficiency as much
    but under healthy plants, the canopy quickly filled in thus shading the clover, and the clover then grew sickly and spindly, which attracts bugs

    I learned bugs love sickly clover, as I attracted a weak strain of thrips or some thirp looking bug that loved the clover but left the MJ alone

    Some other problems I had was that I had great difficulty getting the clover to flower. I think with thousands of seeds I saw maybe 2 flowers, so it forced me to trans plant mature clover from plants that I was taking down and planting in freshly rooted clones rather than having it recycle its self like I hoped it would. PITA
    Also, the clover gets really hot quick in compost so you gotta be careful with your worms.

    So, all in all, I will say that clover, Rhizobium bacteria, and Glomus Intraradice do play nicely together and it does benefit your grow, however, it is only really beneficial early on when first planting, and not for very long as you shade out the clover very quickly. Then the clover is more of a hindrance.
    There are easier ways to get mild N to your plants. Outside it would be a different story, a clover field would be a nice place to plant but inside, no thanks.
    4(207) likes this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    We have such a minuscule understanding of this I would just chuck everything at the plant and look at the results...
    I know biochar also helps sink some of the nitrogen sequestered by the microbiology living on and in it.
    Uncle Reefer

    Uncle Reefer Well-Known Member

    Biochar is really interesting as well. If I had a fireplace I would try it.

    Dmannn Well-Known Member

    Very interesting topic. I know that Crimson clover is grown and tilled as it is a flower type lygume, which fix’s nitrogen from the soil. I know there are other thistles used in agriculture that are grown and tilled to increase nitrogen over time. Cycle nitrogen fix and release to direct absorption by a “host” plant is a great idea! I see the benefit drop because of light blockage.

    What if you Lst the plant away from the top of the clover?

    This also leads me to believe that Smokeable cannibus depeats soil of nitrogen and other nutrient at a rather fast pace, in comparison to hemp.
    SonsOfAvery and Uncle Reefer like this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    Biochar is a bit different from the leftover pieces of coal from your fireplace.
    You need to let the organic source material burn off without an air supply. I guess you could make small amounts stuffing a coffee tin with a small hole in the lid, thrown into a fire.
    You could just buy it at the nursery too. You need between 15 and 25%...more is not better. Outdoors you would rather give it a top up after about a year.
    Uncle Reefer likes this.

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    like you, i have had similar experiences with the clover living mulch, and no longer use a living mulch because of how quickly it goes to shit underneath a healthy plant! and spider mites LOVE clover... and with my grow location not being completely sealed off from all pathways in.... whenever i used the clover I was getting mites on it (but not on the plants). so I said no more! Now it's just decomp mulches (chopped stems, leaves, rice hulls, things of that nature)
    Uncle Reefer likes this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    I reuse my coco coir after leaving it in the sun for a few months. I filter out most of the root material and use it as a mulch on top of the coco.

    If I were where you are, I would look for 2 different biological or at least safe pesticides and use them alternatingly at preventative doses.
    Maximum yield (at least for vegetables) is with a combination of green mulch, fertilizer, and biochar.
    Uncle Reefer

    Uncle Reefer Well-Known Member

    I think you have 2 different systems that you will be growing with if you use this technique of recycling. The pure coco is more of a hydropic soiless thing, but once you do the recycle, the sun and the mulch thing you are building a soil. Both are fine obviously but you should keep track of which is what and treat them accordingly.

    I currently disagree about pesticides when trying to use natural cycles, I am starting to develop my soil web soil cycle more and more aka the circle of poo. You need many actors to accomplish all the tasks that are required for stable healthy soil. If you use a one-time pesticide organic or not it will do its thing but it will create a vacuum. Nature will fill this vacuum

    Off the top of my head I have:
    many bacteria
    at least 6 fungi of which 2 are mushrooms
    soil mites
    3 types of spiders
    centipedes (not sure about them yet)
    and fruit flies ( would rather not have them)
    If I lost some or all of these I wouldn't be able to build my soil without more bottle nutes
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    SonsOfAvery likes this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    I no longer use pure coco. I mix in vermicompost from the start now. I no longer have to fight calcium and magnesium issues.

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