Fracking

I live in an area where there is a big debate going on about hydraulic fracturing. Are there any people out there that have any experence in this technology. I would like to hear from people who live in an area where it is currently happening or has happened.

I am a drilling and completion engineer. I design and oversee hydraulic fracturing operations. What would you like to know?? The liberal media has latched onto "Fracing" as their new rallying cry as if this is some new dangerous procedure the evil oil companies have designed to rape the planet for profit. Hydraulic fracturing has been a standard completion and stimulation process for over 60 years. Fracing is the new "global warming"......

WyoGrow said:

I am a drilling and completion engineer. I design and oversee hydraulic fracturing operations. What would you like to know?? The liberal media has latched onto "Fracing" as their new rallying cry as if this is some new dangerous procedure the evil oil companies have designed to rape the planet for profit. Hydraulic fracturing has been a standard completion and stimulation process for over 60 years. Fracing is the new "global warming"......

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The government of France disagrees with you, so do countless Albertan's who live spitting distance from wells where fracking has taken place.

Oil companies are evil, at least the ones in Canada. Actually most corporations are evil and do not care about the enviornment and/or the general population but that's for a different thread.

regards,

When your tap water is flammable, it may pose a problem. A lot of bad things have been done to the environment in the past 60 years. Anyone who thinks that pumping millions of gallons of this type of concoction into the earth isn't harmful is deluding themselves. My family makes big bucks off land that they own that is under gas leases. I live in poverty because I would not accept this money. My mother gets over $60,000.00 per month, and she can KEEP it.

IMO, you are being silly and letting that intrude if that is actually true. I'm old, you are young, Don't miss this chance if you can reverse it.

Or at least, find out what you are talking about. This stuff is coming up, whether we like it or not. It is the future for the USA.

You should like to think "the earth" is an enity? Fine, but, it cetainly is not a delicate crack baby. And I know you are not trying to convince anyone with a fact based discussion, since we who are interested, are already "deluding" ourselves.

Where do you think we get these so called concoctions? We mine them from the ground. What is in fraking slurry, if you know? If you don't...well, to ignore the facts is to maintain a blissful illusion, right? At what distance below ground do you think fraking occurs?

If I may say so. you seem to be fear driven. May I give you some friendly forum uncle advice? It is not your fear, it is a fear generated for you by those that oppose this for silly reasons, maybe? Just consider that. I just can't see people shooting their life in the foot, like this, if what you say is true.

I fracked wells in the Williston Basin 25 years ago, there, most of the wells were 10,000'-14,000' deep, far below the fresh water table.
Nothing will get your adrenalin going like sitting on top of a Cummins V12 coupled with 3" tri plex pump pumping 2000 Barrels of gelled Acid with inerprop as fast as you can without going over 20,000 psi , mainly because you don't know which way the cracking will go, it can come right back up the outside of the pipe.
With oil prices higher, Oil Companies are opening up wells that had been plugged and abandoned (20-40 years old) that now have aged Casing, Shoe and concrete and are unable to withstand the pressure should a high pressure situation exist, and thus contamination occurs.
Not all Oil Companies would Frac using old Casing and risk the environment, but those Companies are few and far away.

WyoGrow said:

I am a drilling and completion engineer. I design and oversee hydraulic fracturing operations. What would you like to know?? The liberal media has latched onto "Fracing" as their new rallying cry as if this is some new dangerous procedure the evil oil companies have designed to rape the planet for profit. Hydraulic fracturing has been a standard completion and stimulation process for over 60 years. Fracing is the new "global warming"......

Click to expand...

I know I'm asking you to go in harm's way on this board, but can you provide us with some facts and some links. if you read my thread on Climate Change madness, then you know we need to get ahead of Frak-madness. It takes a life of its own, and folks back the lies. And they are left with trying to baited us by the vehement defense of stupdity.

"The government of France disagrees with you....."
First off... I never said hydraulic fracturing was without risk. Hydraulic fracturing has been a standard completion practice for over half a century. So what exactly in my comment is there to disagree with??

"When your tap water is flammable, it may pose a problem....."
I agree 100%.... but the presence of natural gas in surface water formation is a natural occurrence. If we are going to use families experiences for examples then my Aunt and Uncle drilled a water well on their property in the 60's. There wasn't a oil/gas well within 50+ miles of their property. And my Uncle blew himself off the toilet while smoking on the crapper..... natural gas can and DOES exist in formation drilled for use as potable water.

"Anyone who thinks that pumping millions of gallons of this type of concoction into the earth isn't harmful is deluding themselves....."
No argument there. You are 100% correct. But do you have the foggiest clue as to how these fracturing procedures are performed,monitored and controlled?? I'd wager no.Liberal loudmouths like Bill Maher like to go on and on about "fracing" while never getting around to the actual problem. Because if they did then they'd have to acknowledge the fact that the solution is simple, these incidents where hydraulic fracturing has contaminated could have been easily prevented and the fracturing procedure could have still been performed w/o incident. If they did there really wouldn't be anything to get up on a soap box over. Nothing to drum up fear about and in turn.... no attention for themselves.

Pottscreek pretty much sums it up. 99.9% of the problems with hydraulic fracturing now are due to operator negligence and corner cutting to save $$$.
And the sad part is the amount of money they save is pretty trivial. They stand to recoup the extra money spent in a matter of days, weeks or at worst a couple months once the well is put on production. It's simple greed. But not all operators go about business in this manner. In fact the greater majority of them have substantially stricter self imposed guidelines than the current regulations require.

The issues in Pennsylvania were 100% operator negligence. Not requiring the drilling company to perform a standard Formation Integrity Test (FIT) before selecting a landing point for their casing shoe to save footage on casing and about 2 hours worth of rig time. The operators also never performed a "Shoe Test" which is standard and is used by the completion engineers as a guideline to set pressure limitations during the hydraulic fracturing procedure. Also, it's a fact that those operators knew and pumped an inadequate amount of cement to provide the minimal amount of backside coverage when cementing their intermediate and production casing. All because no regulations existed at that time in Penn. The operators knew they were cutting a corner but since there was no guideline requiring them to do so...... not saying it's right. But that is what happened. They took advantage of a lack of proper oversight.

The issue is not "fracing"

Another point that the fear mongers don't want to bring up is that there is accumulating evidenced that widespread use and depletion of ground water is also a major contributing factor to the occurrence of natural gas intrusion charging ground water formations. By unchecked pumping of ground water we are reducing the hydrostatic pressure that keeps the natural gas and oil in the formations they have accumulated in. But nobody is going to stop using their water well while they can create a diversion and lay the blame someplace else. All the while pumping away our groundwater and exacerbating the problem further.

^^above example explains a good majority of the rising occurrences of natural gas showing up in water wells great distances from the nearest oil/gas well.

"I live in poverty because I would not accept this money. My mother gets over $60,000.00 per month, and she can KEEP it....."

I completely respect your convictions even if they are not 100% based on fact. You at least are not a hypocrite. Just miss/under informed. I seriously do mean this as a compliment... not a insult. Nothing irks me more than seeing some fuckwhistle show up to protest a drilling operation in a Hummer H2 wallpapered with "drilling mother earth is murder" stickers. Just what in the hell do they think that gas guzzling monstrosity of a status symbol they drive runs on??? Rainbows and butterfly farts!?!??! They are also among some of the first to scream bloody murder when the price of gas goes up.....

Right, thanks. Links are apreciated here in the Science forum. I'd like to see the evidence, myself,. for other discussions.

It is bad science in general, to not control the experiment. And it is poliitics as usual to ignore even good science and quack about the bad.

It's not the science, it is the construction problem. Buildings collapse if merely struck by an airplane. PG&E is fighting but is being forced to dig up many miles of giant pipe that went into the ground with un-inspected, pitiful excuses for weld joins. That is not a reason to give up on natural gas and neither are the actual fraking accidents. I don't worry so much about the rank and file mongerer, except when they don't realize they have been professionally brainwashed by a very practiced Media.

If I had to post links it would be so piecemeal nobody could follow it. Also, a vast majority of the specific information it seems you are asking about is proprietary. I can't get specific on much of any of it. Individual drilling and completion procedures vary somewhat from operator to operator and are the intellectual property of that operator. So the best I can do is speak in wide general terms about any of this. But the sad part is 99% of it can be accounted, argued and explained in "general terms".

Right, I got it. I won't be revealing any industrial secrets about my business either.

I just hoped, you being in the biz, that there may be a Fraking 101, for Dummies or some such. Do you know of anything general, an FAQ maybe, that has not already been corrupted with the fear?

Dude, seriously @WyoGrow u make it sound like its a bunch of hippies out there just looking for sumptin to protest, why don't u check out this documentary that HBO did regarding Hydraulic fracing called "Gasland" watch that then tell me all those farmers and ppl raising beef and other types of ppl r hippies that r goin around lookin for sumptin to bitch about. If ur doin it as well then y don't u talk about all the chems that r used and all the whats that term u guys use when u drill thru the water table and get all kinds of water comin up from the hole with ur chems in it. Then what do u guys do with all that water with ur chems in it? pump it back into the ground or pump it into pits and use those misters to help evaporate the water with all ur chems into the air faster. Not to mention that the companies doing all this don't feel the need to disclose what chemicals r being put into the ground because they r company secrets. But ur right its just the damn liberal media tryin to make a big deal over nuttin.
Oh wait u left out the best part about the former VP the dude that shot his lawyer put a bill or sumptin threw to allow drilling on thousands of acres of our previously protected national parks, and his old company whatever the hell their name is is doin alot of the drilling, but its all just some whacky liberals makin up conspiracies.
Now this part I'm not 100% on but isn't it true in some cases where farmers or ranchers that own this land don't own the mineral right or w/e so these companies can still buy the rights to drill on land that is maybe being used as a farm or a ranch and if their well water ends up turning to posion, what do the big companies do settle with em outta court and make em sign a non-disclosure agreement so they can't go telling everyone how this company came in and destroyed their land, am I wrong?

i live in northern alberta...canadas oilpatch,the big corp will say its ok,,,but the ppl nearest to the fracking seem to have major issues....lets see, exploding plumbing...water that lights on fire and dead livestock.oh and hi levels of H2S gas in there basements and crawl-spaces.....fracking is noooo goood!

First off Gasland is a farce. The director even admitted to manipulating and excluding facts to further his agenda.

That point aside, let me address the points you brought up.

"Dude, seriously @WyoGrow u make it sound like its a bunch of hippies out there just looking for sumptin to protest,...."
The hummer example I related actually happened to me. More a reference to my utter distaste for over opinionated hypocrites who feel the need to rally around the latest "cause" to message their massive self important ego's in an attempt to make themselves feel better about the notion that they are better than everybody else. Sad fact, a vast majority of the people jumping on the anit-fracing bandwagon are exactly this. Mind you.... I never said everybody. Some are truly concerned people who are only working off of a portion of the pertinent information. Led to feel that way by a misinformation campaign perpetuated by the media.

"If ur doin it as well then y don't u talk about all the chems that r used"
That's because that information is proprietary. Many companies do this. If you come up with a way to make changing lightbulbs easier you have the right to patent and copyright that process. It's a basic staple of business law. Sorry, that's just the way it works. Are the laws and regulation guarding this information missused by the oil and natural gas operators.... hell yes they are. I can't argue that.

"whats that term u guys use when u drill thru the water table and get all kinds of water comin up from the hole with ur chems in it"
All operators when drilling a well are required by STRICT laws and regulations to not use only approved non-toxic and non-reactive chemical drilling fluid additive while drilling through usable water formations. Once drilled through the usable water table the operators are then required to set steel casing through that formation seated in the next deepest caprock formation. That steel casing is then cemented in place 100%. 100% cement coverage is required by law.


"Then what do u guys do with all that water with ur chems in it? pump it back into the ground or pump it into pits and use those misters to help evaporate the water with all ur chems into the air faster."
The drilling fluid is either contained in surface pits or, increasingly in 100% contained operations, dewatered and the recovered water is reused in the drilling process and the solids stripped from the processed fluid are disposed of according to regulations governing the specific area the well is being drilled in. In some cases it is hauled off and dispossed of in by pumping it back into the ground in what's called disposal wells. The reserve pits can be allowed to evaporate naturally or in the case you brought up misted to facilitate evaporating. Once again, this process is strictly monitored and regulated by the government. The fuid being force evaporated has to be tested for and be free of or under the PEL threshold for volatile compounds that will readily evaporate and enter that atmosphere.

"Oh wait u left out the best part about the former VP the dude that shot his lawyer put a bill or sumptin threw to allow drilling on thousands of acres of our previously protected national parks, and his old company whatever the hell their name is is doin alot of the drilling, but its all just some whacky liberals makin up conspiracies."
I didn't leave a damned thing out there "friend".... I am arguing against the deliberate misinformation being used to brainwash the public in order to demonize a process very few understand. I'm not attempting to justify the rampant fucking corruption in our current government. What Dick Chenney or any other political knob did/do to line their greedy fucking pockets isn't the issue I am touching on. So stow that shit.

"Now this part I'm not 100% on but isn't it true in some cases where farmers or ranchers that own this land don't own the mineral right or w/e so these companies can still buy the rights to drill on land that is maybe being used as a farm or a ranch and if their well water ends up turning to posion, what do the big companies do settle with em outta court and make em sign a non-disclosure agreement so they can't go telling everyone how this company came in and destroyed their land, am I wrong? "
True, some landowner do not own the mineral rights under their property. True, those rights can be bought by companies. Where your "truth" deviates from reality is that even if the operators own the mineral rights they have to have permission and compensate the landowner before drilling. Or build a location close enough to directionally drill into their lease from outside the landowners property. I know exactly what you are referring to and it's off that abortion of mockumentary you call "proof" Gasland. The family who was featured purchased the land after surface rights were negotiated between the previous landowner and the oil/gas company. Not the companies fault the new owners couldn't read because as a part of the purchase agreement to buy the property they were obligated to honor the standing agreement between the previous landowner and the oil/gas company.

Now the fellow in Pavillion Wyoming who's well turned toxic after a frac. 100% true. Also 100% the oil companies fault well before the well was fraced. The operator deliberately ignored regulations due to the fact that the well was located on the Wind River Indian Reservation and neither the county, state, federal or tribal governments could stop dick measuring long enough to agree on who should enforced what regulations. Mind you I am flat stating that the company willingly and knowingly did wrong and it was proven in court.

Anything else??

Oof; this thread is fractious. cn

"i live in northern alberta...canadas oilpatch,the big corp will say its ok,,,but the ppl nearest to the fracking seem to have major issues....lets see, exploding plumbing...water that lights on fire and dead livestock.oh and hi levels of H2S gas in there basements and crawl-spaces....."
once again I previous stated hydraulic fracturing is not without risk. It can and does everything you are told it does. What is not passed along is how easily these occurrences can be avoided and still fracture the well.A good portion of it is deliberate operator negligence to save $$$.... I am not defending this people.But I have also read up that quite a fair number of the "victims" up in your neck of the patch had pre-existing issues with their well water. Fact, methane naturally occurs in many water formations drilled for use as potable water. And in more than a few cases the hydrogen sulfide in their homes is due to poorly designed and cheaply built septic systems.

"fracking is noooo goood! "
No, hydraulic fracturing is a cost effective and relatively safe production procedure if done properly. But the well has to have been previously drilled, cased and tested to withstand the hydraulic horsepower used in the fracin process.

"Oof; this thread is fractious. cn "

Asshole!!! That made me spit RC Cola on my laptop!!! +rep to you you cheeky fucker.....