FoxFarm Question

Gimpy23

Active Member
I have some girls starting in 3 gal containers using Pro-Mix and 1/2 cup lime in each under 600 watt HPS. My question is, using the FF schedule..should I still be flushing as often as they state on their schedule or is that for hydroponic?
I thought using 1/2 cup of lime would eliminate the need for flushing. Any ideas??:leaf:
 

trichome fiend

Well-Known Member
...lime has a pH of 7, so it will constantly attempt to bring your pH there....FFOF has seashells for the same purpose....you shouldn't need to add any lime, besides it takes awhile to become active.
...the soil itself should be good without any fertilizers for 3/4 weeks, so don't do anything until then....I personally like to just transplant into a larger pot when that time comes with fresh FFOF unstead of adding all the salts/fertilizers in their trio....

...speaking of the trio, the Big Bloom is organic....the Tiger bloom, and Big grow are synthetic/salts. The salts dehydrate the microorganisms in the soil that make it premium quality in the 1st place....I'd stay away from them....the salts are buffered greatly in soil and your pH gets out of wack real quick....

...as mentioned, you can simply transplant your ladies into a larger pot every 3 weeks or so, only feeding them water throughout their whole life, and you'll have superior results without all the guru mambo jambo pumped in everyones head through advertisment.....you'll have no pH issues, no salt build ups, no flushing required....KISS (keep it simple silly!)
 

Gimpy23

Active Member
but I'm not using FFOF, I am using Pro-Mix which basically has no sea shells. I have already begun the FF feeding schedule so what should I do?? I have been using 1/3 to 1/2 strength. My ladies are 3 weeks old.
 

trichome fiend

Well-Known Member
...shit, sorry. .....sorry about the confusion, you are growin in a "soilless" mix....which has no nutrients. The promix should have dolomite lime in it already though, and microriser...you still didn't need the lime. Your technique can be done with those fertz, sorry....your basically growing hydroponics, with a passive hydro technique (soilless).

...back to the origional question about flusing, you're going to need to flush the hell out of your medium with this technique....slowly is the key, but be careful to let your pots dry out between all that....I personally stay organic when growing in pots with soil/less because of all the 'salt buildup' issues that come along with such a great buffering medium.
...anywho, sorry to have confused you if I do so....I'm baked.
 

trichome fiend

Well-Known Member
what do you mean by "slowly" flush? Don't I need to worry about too much water??
...you do need to worry about too much water but not during a "flush".....to flush your soilless medium, you'd pour 3 gallons of water through each gallon of medium...(example: You'd pour 9 gallons of water through 3 gallons of medium). Be sure to pour the water in slowly, water follows the path of least resistance... don't let the water run down the sides of the pot, be sure to let the water slowly leach through your medium. After the flush, be sure to let your medium completely dry before you rewater.
 

Total Head

Well-Known Member
i'm really going to have to disagree about the not needing lime in promix. peat based mixes are notoriously acidic and i would never use promix straight out of the bag, regardless of what they claim to put in there to buffer it. if the guy is using high ec stock water then omitting the lime would be a disaster, especially with that nute lineup. it's like the same debate that people always have with ffof. some people swear that the oyster shells are plenty, and then there's those of us who can say first hand that we have ph swings and mag defs less than 4 weeks in without the lime, regardless of feeding. in many cases it might not be "needed" but it's one of those things that certainly won't hurt and is very hard to overdo, and it's cheap as hell. i think it saves a lot of headaches.

about the flushing thing, i personally find flushing every week to be excessive. ff didn't even have a flushing product until recently and people got along just fine without it. i still have an old ff feed insert from 2 years ago and it says not one thing about flushing. it claims that the big bloom helps "unlock salt bonds". based on that the new flushing stuff/schedule sounds like a mareketing ploy.
 

trichome fiend

Well-Known Member
i'm really going to have to disagree about the not needing lime in promix. peat based mixes are notoriously acidic and i would never use promix straight out of the bag, regardless of what they claim to put in there to buffer it. if the guy is using high ec stock water then omitting the lime would be a disaster, especially with that nute lineup. it's like the same debate that people always have with ffof. some people swear that the oyster shells are plenty, and then there's those of us who can say first hand that we have ph swings and mag defs less than 4 weeks in without the lime, regardless of feeding. in many cases it might not be "needed" but it's one of those things that certainly won't hurt and is very hard to overdo, and it's cheap as hell. i think it saves a lot of headaches.

about the flushing thing, i personally find flushing every week to be excessive. ff didn't even have a flushing product until recently and people got along just fine without it. i still have an old ff feed insert from 2 years ago and it says not one thing about flushing. it claims that the big bloom helps "unlock salt bonds". based on that the new flushing stuff/schedule sounds like a mareketing ploy.
...lime doesn't go straight to work....odds are, you've already harvested your crop before it starts working.
...FFOF is only good for a few weeks, then you must supplement.....I personally like to either top layer with EWC, or an all out transplant at that time....for each his own, eh?

How long does it take for lime to work?
Since water is required for lime to react with the soil, effects of a lime application will be slower in a dry soil. It often takes a year or more before a response can be measured even under perfect conditions. However, a response may be observed within weeks of the application when soil pH is extremely low. It is important to apply lime immediately after the growing season or crop removal to allow lime to react, correcting soil pH before the next growing season.


...EDIT: --> http://www.smilinggardener.com/organic-soil-management/dolomite-lime
 

Total Head

Well-Known Member
...lime doesn't go straight to work....odds are, you've already harvested your crop before it starts working.
...FFOF is only good for a few weeks, then you must supplement.....I personally like to either top layer with EWC, or an all out transplant at that time....for each his own, eh?

How long does it take for lime to work?
Since water is required for lime to react with the soil, effects of a lime application will be slower in a dry soil. It often takes a year or more before a response can be measured even under perfect conditions. However, a response may be observed within weeks of the application when soil pH is extremely low. It is important to apply lime immediately after the growing season or crop removal to allow lime to react, correcting soil pH before the next growing season.


...EDIT: --> http://www.smilinggardener.com/organic-soil-management/dolomite-lime

my problem with agricultural sources (such as the samuel roberts noble foundation) is that they are almost always referring to agricultural limestone, which i hope no one is using in their indoor gardens. the particles are large and it is known to take forever to break down. liquid lime (not to be confused with hydrated lime, stay away from that mess) goes to work immediately, and is derived from dolomite. the general consensus for pulverized (powdered) dolomite is that it takes between 3 and 6 months to be "fully" active. it's important to note that this does not mean that it's doing "nothing" in the meantime. the thing to pay attention to with the lime is the fineness of the mesh it was screened through. the finer the mesh, the quicker it will do its thing.

also, there seems to be some strong evidence that pre mixing the lime into the soil is a lot more effective than tilling it in as a corrective measure, which is how agricultural types measure effectiveness. unfortunately i don't have any links because i read about it in one of those paper thingys and can't find a whole lot on it on the net. however, it stands to reason that farming corn or grass outdoors in the rain and growing annuals indoors with pots and tap water require different products to keep the soil in check.

i can say that i have undoubtedly corrected lockout issues using a combination of liquid lime and tilled in powdered lime and had growth resume in less than 2 weeks. whether this is due to the lime's reaction with my soil or the reaction to my water remains unknown, but the results are clear. there are plenty of stories on here of people who never used lime until they moved someplace else and realized that something had changed and it wasn't their skills. i worship the stuff.

the link you provided has a lot of good info but it was more geared toward avoiding the acidity problems by going organic, and that's just not in the cards for me (although i have been toying with the idea of making my own type super soil using granulated organic fertilizers, and perhaps being able to feed just water the whole cycle, but subcool's stuff is too fancy for my tiny apartment. i'm working on it). i disagree that lime is simply a "tremendous marketing job". and unlike the crops referenced in the article, cannabis is has an almost insatiable appitite for magnesium. i actually think more people bring issues on themselves by using calmag products in soil than people creating issues with lime, because as i pointed out before, lime is hard to overdo.
again, i'm not saying it's necessarily needed by everyone, but for a lot of us, it's not optional.

edit: wow sorry for the book. i didn't realize how long winded that was :eyesmoke:
 
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