Fox farm nutes, What could be wrong?

GandalfdaGreen said:

What if you have a water softening system but you dont run salt in it while you have your grow running?

Click to expand...

As long as the tank is completely devoid of salt then no worries. I would venture to guess at one point in the grow it had salt in it. I have seen many a plant look just like yours because of water softeners and sodium build up in the medium.

having hard water is not going to bother anything and his water is not hard anyways 140ppm is relativly normal.

RetiredMatthebrute said:

cloning dosent really cause too much stress. Cloning now would be a good idea. this way you can pick wich of the 3 you want to keep and use the clone as a mother plant. then fill that rez up with 6 of the same genetics and you shouldn't have to worry about having different PPM for different strains.

Click to expand...

I am going to do that as soon as I get my mini fridge converted into a veg unit. Is it necessary to use any rooting gels?

Alexander Supertramp said:

Looks like a bad magnesium deficiency too me. Which would inhibit the uptake and use of some other nutrients. FF nutes contain almost zero magnesium. There was a day when Big Bloom was enough. But now a days its watered down crap. I would suggest adding cal/mag and or epsoms salts to their diet.
Next thing needed to know is does your house have a water softening system?

Click to expand...

No I don't think it does. There is no filter or anything attached to any of the pipes. I attached a sample of what my water contains and the amounts. I agree with the Mag issue. I think the lack of Mag from the FF and the chlorine in the tap-water may have hurt them. I have applying very low dosages of epsom salt to the res because I wasn't sure what the right amount should be.

Today is day 5 of the flush with 25% nutes. Since, the plants have been mag def for a while and then nute burned. I was thinking of changing out the res and adding 2 tsp of Tiger Bloom and 1 tbsp of Big Bloom (or is that to much). For the mag I want to add epsom salt but I don't know what the proper dosage is. Do you know? I was thinking of starting with 1-2 tsp for the 6 gal. My water doesn't seem to have cal either but as ive mentioned I have already ordered cal mag +. It will be here next monday apparently .

RetiredMatthebrute said:

having hard water is not going to bother anything and his water is not hard anyways 140ppm is relativly normal.

Click to expand...

Yes. Its normal but there doesn't seem to be any cal in it either. Also the FF hydro nutes don't have much cal or mag either. According to roseman, if the leaf tips are curling upward then it can be a indication of a mag deficiency/heat stress. Since that is happening and the veins are dark green in comparison to the other it makes sense. So how should I go about correcting the issues? I know I messed up and nute burned them already. Now what if I do the 8-step remedy and a res change with epsom salt, 2 tsp of tiger bloom, and 1 tbsp Big bloom?

It makes sense that their is a cal-mag deficiency. I know to much cal can cause lockout on mag but that doesn't seem to be happening in my case. It seems more likely that chlorine is affecting the little available mag. The API product was $4 at petsmart so I am going to give it a try today. The instructions say 1 drop per gal so I will do 2 drops since I have a 6 gal solution. I will let the water air out for awhile longer as well.

Note: The ppm rises a little per day so isn't that a indication that they are not eating? I think increasing the mag/cal will help things along.

Does anyone know the right dosage per gallon for using epsom salt??

Also the other two smaller plants have yet to show their sex and the growth/rate of water being consumed has decreased a lot. Seems as if all three plants are only drinking 3/4 of a gallon a day or some of that is evaporating. My temps have been about 79 F the past 3 days.

Alexander Supertramp said:

As long as the tank is completely devoid of salt then no worries. I would venture to guess at one point in the grow it had salt in it. I have seen many a plant look just like yours because of water softeners and sodium build up in the medium.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

Alexander Supertramp said:

As long as the tank is completely devoid of salt then no worries. I would venture to guess at one point in the grow it had salt in it. I have seen many a plant look just like yours because of water softeners and sodium build up in the medium.

Click to expand...

"I have seen many a plant look just like yours because of water softeners and sodium build up in the medium." I don't have a softening system but you mention sodium build up within the medium. I am using rockwool and hydroton in the netpots. I have not been pouring water over them because the roots are in the water and the pump has been removed. If their is a buildup of salts in the medium do I just pour ph-water through them a few times?

I am in a building complex so I doubt that the units share a softening system right? If it does can I just call the water company/building manager and ask?

learning05 said:

I am going to do that as soon as I get my mini fridge converted into a veg unit. Is it necessary to use any rooting gels?

Click to expand...

not necessary but they do help.

learning05 said:

Yes. Its normal but there doesn't seem to be any cal in it either. Also the FF hydro nutes don't have much cal or mag either. According to roseman, if the leaf tips are curling upward then it can be a indication of a mag deficiency/heat stress. Since that is happening and the veins are dark green in comparison to the other it makes sense. So how should I go about correcting the issues? I know I messed up and nute burned them already. Now what if I do the 8-step remedy and a res change with epsom salt, 2 tsp of tiger bloom, and 1 tbsp Big bloom?

It makes sense that their is a cal-mag deficiency. I know to much cal can cause lockout on mag but that doesn't seem to be happening in my case. It seems more likely that chlorine is affecting the little available mag. The API product was $4 at petsmart so I am going to give it a try today. The instructions say 1 drop per gal so I will do 2 drops since I have a 6 gal solution. I will let the water air out for awhile longer as well.

Note: The ppm rises a little per day so isn't that a indication that they are not eating? I think increasing the mag/cal will help things along.

Does anyone know the right dosage per gallon for using epsom salt??

Also the other two smaller plants have yet to show their sex and the growth/rate of water being consumed has decreased a lot. Seems as if all three plants are only drinking 3/4 of a gallon a day or some of that is evaporating. My temps have been about 79 F the past 3 days.

Click to expand...

the rising PPM is a indication of temprature rising....when the water gets warmer the ions move faster thus giving you a higher PPM reading.

learning05 said:

I am in a building complex so I doubt that the units share a softening system right? If it does can I just call the water company/building manager and ask?

Click to expand...

i really dont think this is your issue. like i said before try crushing up some tums and dissolving them in water for Ca, if you dont want to do that monday is not too far away. Ca is Ca though the Ca you need is the same Ca that comes in milk and tums.

I likes FF line,but it sucks ass in DWC....for real,no matter what I did.now I use CNS17 grow/bloom

RetiredMatthebrute said:

having hard water is not going to bother anything and his water is not hard anyways 140ppm is relativly normal.

Click to expand...

Has zero to do with hard water in this case. Its all about the sodium content of water that has been processed by a water softener(if he has one, he did ask)........

learning05 said:

"I have seen many a plant look just like yours because of water softeners and sodium build up in the medium." I don't have a softening system but you mention sodium build up within the medium. I am using rockwool and hydroton in the netpots. I have not been pouring water over them because the roots are in the water and the pump has been removed. If their is a buildup of salts in the medium do I just pour ph-water through them a few times?

Click to expand...

No softener then gotta say is a mag issue. Sodium build up be it from water from a softened system or improper/abuse use of pH ups can cause this very issue. And as Matt mentioned. Find out what the 140 ppm in your water consists of. If its mainly calcium then that could also be inhibiting the magnesium uptake. 3:1 ratio cal to mag is the baseline most shoot for.....c

edit: also something to look at is your pipes, plumbing that is, what type do you have? Galvanized, copper or pvc? Copper and pvc then no worries. Old galvanized pipes on the other hand can also lend to issues most would overlook....

genuity said:

I likes FF line,but it sucks ass in DWC....for real,no matter what I did.now I use CNS17 grow/bloom

Click to expand...

Dr. Lynette Morgan knows her shit when it comes to hydro. You probably wont see her name pop up in cannabis mags. But elsewhere her words are listened too for sure. She knows plants and hydro.......

C-complete N-nutrient S-system 17-the number of elements a plant needs too grow........

genuity said:

I likes FF line,but it sucks ass in DWC....for real,no matter what I did.now I use CNS17 grow/bloom

Click to expand...

Yeah it is difficult to manage in dwc. Especially the big bloom- since its so brown/sandy it settles at the bottom. You gotta have something circulating the solution. I try to stir it by hand every time I check the ph. It doesn't color the roots to much but there is a slight tint.

Alexander Supertramp said:

No softener then gotta say is a mag issue. Sodium build up be it from water from a softened system or improper/abuse use of pH ups can cause this very issue. And as Matt mentioned. Find out what the 140 ppm in your water consists of. If its mainly calcium then that could also be inhibiting the magnesium uptake. 3:1 ratio cal to mag is the baseline most shoot for.....c

edit: also something to look at is your pipes, plumbing that is, what type do you have? Galvanized, copper or pvc? Copper and pvc then no worries. Old galvanized pipes on the other hand can also lend to issues most would overlook....

Click to expand...

I already posted what the water contained. There seems to be a high about of sodium but this is based of a 2011 study. Nevertheless the ph has been 7 as they report. Here it is again:


Anything I can do to make it better?

Alexander Supertramp said:

Dr. Lynette Morgan knows her shit when it comes to hydro. You probably wont see her name pop up in cannabis mags. But elsewhere her words are listened too for sure. She knows plants and hydro.......

C-complete N-nutrient S-system 17-the number of elements a plant needs too grow........

Click to expand...

I will look into that for my next grow. Have you guys ever tried Stealth Hydroponic nutrients? Roseman and other's have used them in their dwc grows with good results. I used it my last grow it was a lot easier to maintain then FF (my experience I am sure other FF nute growers are much better at it and it is easy for them).

Fox farms uses allot of salt in all of their nutrient mixes. Not flushing before week 5 can allow salts to build up in the soil and eventually cause a severe PH down turn in your runoff water test. I use all of their line up and I have developed for the second time, a PH runoff of a 4.5 causing PH lockout of potassium and nitrogen from what I can tell. I grow in FF Happy Frog by the way. This test did not compare to the same strain, AK-47 in the same soil, fed FF nutrients, but was flushed between week 4 and 5. The runoff of the flushed plant is a PH 7. Sprinkle lime on the top of your soil and flush with twice normal watering, with water at PH of 8. You should be adjusted if you are growing in soil. Test your runoff and maybe drop the Tiger Bloomz. Good Luck.

AZPsyclops said:

Fox farms uses allot of salt in all of their nutrient mixes. Not flushing before week 5 can allow salts to build up in the soil and eventually cause a severe PH down turn in your runoff water test. I use all of their line up and I have developed for the second time, a PH runoff of a 4.5 causing PH lockout of potassium and nitrogen from what I can tell. I grow in FF Happy Frog by the way. This test did not compare to the same strain, AK-47 in the same soil, fed FF nutrients, but was flushed between week 4 and 5. The runoff of the flushed plant is a PH 7. Sprinkle lime on the top of your soil and flush with twice normal watering, with water at PH of 8. You should be adjusted if you are growing in soil. Test your runoff and maybe drop the Tiger Bloomz. Good Luck.

Click to expand...

Appreciate the intention and response but I am not growing in soil. Its a dwc hydro set up. I have FF's hydro trio.

Oh no. It seems like a bottle fell in my closet last night and snapped off ONE branch with little growth on it. It was one the ground when I opened my closet door. Also that same plant which lost the branch just showed its first set of female pistils emerging from the new growth. Will this cause it to hermie? Esp since they are still recovering from nute burn/mag issue?

learning05 said:

Oh no. It seems like a bottle fell in my closet last night and snapped off ONE branch with little growth on it. It was one the ground when I opened my closet door. Also that same plant which lost the branch just showed its first set of female pistils emerging from the new growth. Will this cause it to hermie? Esp since they are still recovering from nute burn/mag issue?

Click to expand...

doubt it. Hermies are cause more by enviormental stressors than physical stressors