flowering with aquaponics, revisited

grouch said:

A couple ideas for you after reading your summary. About the nitrate uptake, could trimming the plant heavily be a good way to cause a lockout and be used to flush at the end of flowering? I ask this because I am thinking a perpetual grow may work out very well to keep a constant uptake of nitrates going on in the grow beds. The only downside I see to perpetual is not being able to flush the plants at the end of flowering. Planting clones into the system at three or four intervals will keep a constant plant load coming into and out of flowering.

Click to expand...

That's an idea, but it's not easy to dial it in to exactly where you want it. With perpetual, even if you pluck some, the others will still be sucking up nitrates, so it would take a lot to push nitrates to a high enough level to lockout other stuff. Also, all your plants would be locked out, not just the ones your trying to flush.

Goes back to the debate of importance of flushing vs curing. Personally, i think its all in the cure. Nit saying that flushing doesn't so anything, just that if you cure properly, it's unnecessary.

Couldn't find any aquarium products that neutralize nitrates. Only way is to dump some water, add more plants (maybe "helper" crop of greens or herbs), or add anaerobic zones in which the microbes turn nitrates into n2 gas and methane.

Planning to add an anaerobic digester before next round.

Ever read about the "walstad method"? It uses a dirt substrate underneath a layer(cap) of sand in a fish tank. It is used for planted tanks to grow plants but I think it could be used in a ap setup to create the anaerobic zone and to release some fertilizer at the same time. Fish people seem to prefer miracle grow organic choice potting mix. It wouldn't work if there is a ton of water movement over the substrate as it would stir it up and make a mess.

grouch said:

Ever read about the "walstad method"? It uses a dirt substrate underneath a layer(cap) of sand in a fish tank. It is used for planted tanks to grow plants but I think it could be used in a ap setup to create the anaerobic zone and to release some fertilizer at the same time. Fish people seem to prefer miracle grow organic choice potting mix. It wouldn't work if there is a ton of water movement over the substrate as it would stir it up and make a mess.

Click to expand...

i heard of it, and was actually considering doing something very similar. i tried vermiponics and didn't like it. i ditched vermiponics for the same reason i ditched this idea, which is the fact that you can't really control how much ionic nutrients come out of a given amount of organic fertilizer. if you add too much, you won't know until it's too late, and all this organic matter just sits in your system until it's fully digested, which could take months. if it's not enough, you won't know until it's too late either.

so was reading a thread on organic soil growers and how the lively up their soil first to predigest the organic soilds before putting any plants in it.

i'm basically going to do the same thing in a 5-gallon water jug. i'll add my organic fert with some septic bacteria, convert as much of the nitrogen to methane as i can, break down the solids, and burn the biogas for whatever infinitesimal amount of free co2 i can get from it. i'll then drop it into a slow sand filter, which is also a kind of anaerobic digestor that purifies turbid drinking water. after bubbling it off with plenty of oxygen for a day to kill off anaerobic microbes, i've basically got "ionic" nutes.

my goal is to "brew" my own ionic nutes from bottled organic nutes and ultimately some food scraps. the NPK numbers i start with won't mean a thing, but at least i can control ppm.

i like the like of trying to mimic nature with anaerobic zones within the system itself, but the problem with rotting organic matter in your system is that it will keep your ppms high until it's done rotting. it's really hard to control the process, which is why i decided to separate it out. after brewing my own "organic ionic" nutes, i can test it, ph adjust it, adjust the concentration, even store it in a bottle before adding it to my system.

i could get fancy and ferment my veg, flower, ripener in different jugs, but i'm just going to dump the stuff in the there and keep it simple.

almost done with adding on a veg tray that runs off the same system. actually considering switching over to perpetual harvest with just a few big shrubs. i think it will help keep my nitrates in check. planning to veg out a few seedlings until the end of the month. already took some clippings and will sex as soon as they're rooted. no preflowers yet.

My whole reason for doing aquaponics was to keep it simple. Add water, add fish, add food, and pump.

grouch said:

My whole reason for doing aquaponics was to keep it simple. Add water, add fish, add food, and pump.

Click to expand...

i hear you. i just couldn't get the results i wanted with fish food alone. even vermiponics didn't cut it. i don't even feed fish or add water manually. that's all on autopilot, so i have plenty of time to shake my digestor once a day and burn off any accumulated methane. i plan to get around to building it next week.

i think the digestor is pretty simple. just a 5-gallon jug and some fittings. sand filter is pretty much a 5-gallon bucket with a hole in it.

i want to be able to digest bananas along with other food scraps. digestor would be perfect to dispose of leaves, stems, clippings, roots from chopped plants! let the digestor just break that stuff down, turn it back into ionic form, and feed it back to the plants. that's what organic soil growers already do: they cultivate the soil with decaying organic matter, poop, microbes. i want to create the equivalent for hydro.

the second stage slow sand filter removes the remaining solids from the digestor effluent and further breaks them down into ionic form. saw a guy on youtube that was doing the same 2-stage process the organic matter in his kitchen grey water. first ferment it, then filter it.

wow haole420! great job! very impressive indeed!


im about to start an AP grow myself but i just got kinda weary about the nutrition of plants during flowering, although im completely opent to an AP/hydro setup like you say. have you ever heard of Murray Hallam, he has some great resources online on AP, this is the traller of an in depth DVD of his: http://youtu.be/btUZBk8G1xk.


one thing he specifically stresses out is the need for chelated iron in AP. it just made me remember of your post on the misinterpreted lack of iron issue, towards the end of flowering.

hey, are you really gonna start a new AP grow anytime soon? id def like to follow along and who knows grow along!

cheers mate! keep up the good work!

Im sorry did someone say aquaponics doesnt yield well or have dank nugs. oh man that sucks i better throw all this out then because its prolly shit hey?

Great work all of you! You are pioneers and I hope your persistence pays off! Just starting out in ap. very excited! Any words of advise greatly appreciated. Peace

be patient. it can take a little while to cycle your system and get it running but it is well worth the effort.
keep some potassium hydroxide or potassium sulphate handy just in case your potassium levels are low in your first run.

share your grow at oceangrown.forumotion.com if you can its my own site. kind of just a blog at the moment but i would love to have more people posting there efforts plus i check it daily and could help you out along the way

2easy said:

Im sorry did someone say aquaponics doesnt yield well or have dank nugs. oh man that sucks i better throw all this out then because its prolly shit hey?

Click to expand...

Yeahhhhh!

Aquaponic systems are not hydroponic systems. we really should stop using numerical values based on hydroponics and apply it to aquaponics.

1400ppm is aquaponics? That's absurd!!! Ideal systems run at 0ppm. I know that's hard for everyone to get their heads around. But "ideally" there is a perfect balance and the plants use the nutes at the same rate they are supplies via fish waste to bacteria.

In my experience, running anything higher than 100ppm really throws everything off and plants get stunted.

Filtration is a must! So is patience! Systems can take over a year to fully stabilize and produce. From my experience, the best and most simple system is a CHIFT PIST (constant height in fish tank, pump in sump tank). This system also requires red wriggler worms to mineralize the fish waste, oxygenate your grow beds, and provide micronutrients.

Supplementation is a MUST for any aquaponics system. Iron, and potassium are needed for any growing crop, and other fertilizers with P must be added to grow cannabis. And that can be tricky...

Anyway, hydroponics to me is just silly. My ph never swings always 6.4. I can't get an ammonia spike, which means my bacteria break down waste almost immediately and turn in to solvable fish food. I have never had a deficiency, ever.

Don't be fooled. Aquaponics is not easy, at first. But once your system is running and dialed in all you have to do is feed your fish, add water, and occasional supplements.