hi everyone ! gonna be setting up again soon and i wanna know if this can be done : using my 85gallon rez to flood 2 4x4 trays and a 4x6 (at a seperate time after the 4x4s are flooded) i wanna do it like this so i only have to use one res and one water chiller, any problems i may encounter doing this ? is this ok what ya think?
flooding 3 tables with one rez
- Thread starter Wohjew
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fatman7574
New Member
Depends on the depth of the tables, the amount of open pore space betwwen the media, and the media type. Is the media non absorbent, a liitke absorbant? For an example: Round gravel would be totally non absorbant and would probably leave a pore space around 15%. A 12" deep table with 10" of gravel 4' by 4' would require 2 cubic feet of water. (4*4*(10/12)*0.15) = 2.0 And 2 cubic feet is (2 gal *7.48 gal/cu ft)= 14.96 gallons, or approx 30 gallons for the two 4 foot square tables. That is to flood the tables and as the gravel is totally non absorbant nearly all the water would return. However if you use a medium such as Hydroton some water extra water will be need as it is slightly absorbant. Rockwoll is even more absorbant so more water will be need to flood the tables and less will return. Now consider something like bio balls for media. About 75% is pore space so it would take (4*4*(10/12)*0.75) =10, (10 * 7.4
= 74.8 gallons to flood one 4'*4'* 10" table. Nearly all the water would very quickly return to the reservoir.
So the best answer is it depends. You can preety much tell by just using a bucket to tell. Figure a 5 gallon bucket is equivalent to 0.668 cubic feet, so a 4' by 4' by 10" deep table is (4*4*(10/12)= 13.33 cubic feet so it takes approx twenty 5 gallon buckets to approximate the table. Fill one 5 gallon bucket with the medium you will be using. Now add measure an mounts of water to the bucket until it overflows. Multiply that water amount times 20. That will show you how much water is needed to flood just one 4' by 4' by 10" deep tray.
= 74.8 gallons to flood one 4'*4'* 10" table. Nearly all the water would very quickly return to the reservoir.So the best answer is it depends. You can preety much tell by just using a bucket to tell. Figure a 5 gallon bucket is equivalent to 0.668 cubic feet, so a 4' by 4' by 10" deep table is (4*4*(10/12)= 13.33 cubic feet so it takes approx twenty 5 gallon buckets to approximate the table. Fill one 5 gallon bucket with the medium you will be using. Now add measure an mounts of water to the bucket until it overflows. Multiply that water amount times 20. That will show you how much water is needed to flood just one 4' by 4' by 10" deep tray.
WOW thanks fatman. im using hydroton. i just want to flood my2 4x4 trays. for 5 mins . wait for it to drain back to res then flood my 4x6 . i cant flood all at once so i want to know if this is going to cause defefficy or pathogen probs in my res . summer is coming and i want to add the 4x6 but i dont want to add a second chiller or res .. you dig? currently im running 2 4x4trays with 2 x 1000w hps so i want to put the 4x6 in the middle of the 4x4s and add one more 1000 watter in the mixDepends on the depth of the tables, the amount of open pore space betwwen the media, and the media type. Is the media non absorbent, a liitke absorbant? For an example: Round gravel would be totally non absorbant and would probably leave a pore space around 15%. A 12" deep table with 10" of gravel 4' by 4' would require 2 cubic feet of water. (4*4*(10/12)*0.15) = 2.0 And 2 cubic feet is (2 gal *7.48 gal/cu ft)= 14.96 gallons, or approx 30 gallons for the two 4 foot square tables. That is to flood the tables and as the gravel is totally non absorbant nearly all the water would return. However if you use a medium such as Hydroton some water extra water will be need as it is slightly absorbant. Rockwoll is even more absorbant so more water will be need to flood the tables and less will return. Now consider something like bio balls for media. About 75% is pore space so it would take (4*4*(10/12)*0.75) =10, (10 * 7.4
So the best answer is it depends. You can preety much tell by just using a bucket to tell. Figure a 5 gallon bucket is equivalent to 0.668 cubic feet, so a 4' by 4' by 10" deep table is (4*4*(10/12)= 13.33 cubic feet so it takes approx twenty 5 gallon buckets to approximate the table. Fill one 5 gallon bucket with the medium you will be using. Now add measure an mounts of water to the bucket until it overflows. Multiply that water amount times 20. That will show you how much water is needed to flood just one 4' by 4' by 10" deep tray.
fatman7574
New Member
I am a chlorox user so I don't have a pathogen issue. I amintain a 0.5 ppm to 1.0 ppm residual level of chlorine in my nutrient water.
The degree of your worries about pathogens should be based upon how well your system fully drains. You should have no low spots in your tables/trays where water sits after all other water has drained, IE dips, low corners, high drain flange(s). If your using pots with hydrotonin the pots look at the bottom edge of the pots, if there is a lip around the pot edges cut a few notches through the lip so water will not accumulate under the pots within the height provided by the lip. If water sits in a area like that the roots strip the DO and you end up with anoxic (oxygen free) conditions which cai use bacterial multiplicaton and root rot. Water in dips and corners also have the same issues, as does water around raised drain flanges such as bulkhead drains.
Nearly all root problems in ndoors mj grows are caused by root death due to bacteria other than Phythium from growth in areas with water of extremely low to zero DO other than Phythium. Pythium is more a problem of commercial growers who use water from surface water sources and open irrigation canals etc. where the water has not been disinfected with chlorine by a water treatment plant. Nearly all bacteria/pathogens indoor growers have to deal with are easily killed or maintained at very low levels with small residual levels of chlorine.
The degree of your worries about pathogens should be based upon how well your system fully drains. You should have no low spots in your tables/trays where water sits after all other water has drained, IE dips, low corners, high drain flange(s). If your using pots with hydrotonin the pots look at the bottom edge of the pots, if there is a lip around the pot edges cut a few notches through the lip so water will not accumulate under the pots within the height provided by the lip. If water sits in a area like that the roots strip the DO and you end up with anoxic (oxygen free) conditions which cai use bacterial multiplicaton and root rot. Water in dips and corners also have the same issues, as does water around raised drain flanges such as bulkhead drains.
Nearly all root problems in ndoors mj grows are caused by root death due to bacteria other than Phythium from growth in areas with water of extremely low to zero DO other than Phythium. Pythium is more a problem of commercial growers who use water from surface water sources and open irrigation canals etc. where the water has not been disinfected with chlorine by a water treatment plant. Nearly all bacteria/pathogens indoor growers have to deal with are easily killed or maintained at very low levels with small residual levels of chlorine.
tat2ue
Well-Known Member
Simple answer is yes. I flood my two DIY 3 x 8 ebb and flo tables in my flower room from the same 125 gallon rez.
But I made sure my rez and the table receiving the nute solution never sees the light of day. And since I made the tables myself and there were no draining channels like in regular store bought flood tables I placed 12x12 ceramic tiles in the bottom of the table placed 1/4 inch apart to channel water back to the drain port to keep the roots from laying in water all the time. The water is topped off every few days and the rez is changed every 14 days and I have never had a problem
thanks for the help.fatman you know yer shit 
thanks tat. have you had any probs with your set up ?what about plant defiency are some plants going to be taking more nutes than others? the lady at the hydro store said to change the rez out weekly instead of 2wks . i didt comment to her about that . i just left ......
thanks tat. have you had any probs with your set up ?what about plant defiency are some plants going to be taking more nutes than others? the lady at the hydro store said to change the rez out weekly instead of 2wks . i didt comment to her about that . i just left ......
tat2ue
Well-Known Member
thanks for the help.fatman you know yer shit
Have not had any problems as of yet as you can see.
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genisis
Well-Known Member
I have a different train of thought on running multiple tables off one res. I run 2 4x8 tables with separate reservoirs. The reason I do this is illustrated by my last grow. One of my tables (late-flower stage) started having problems - the plants started drying up (literally turning crispy). The second table (mid flower) was doing the same only not as bad. I changed water and neuts after flushing in both tables and tried to find out what the heck was going on.
I went into the local hydro store for ideas and found myself in the middle of a conversation about this very subject. It seems that this was happening to a lot of growers in the area. Some had already lost whole harvests.
Although we had some things in common (neuts -and what not) the one thing we all had in common was the water supply. It turns out that due to Homeland security mandates, my area had started using a different type of chlorine - one that does not evaporate. For the record - I do not know anything about chemistry - chlorine - even water for that matter - the only thing I knew was that my plants were dying.
The solution seemed to be a RO system. I bought one - installed it - changed out both reservoirs and the problem was done.
Unfortunately I lost about 60% of the harvest of table 1 - fortunately I was able to save most table 2. Which brings us back to my point - a single reservoir system means that any problem in the reservoir affects all plants. Separate reservoirs generally isolate problems to that single table which may allow you to salvage something.
I went into the local hydro store for ideas and found myself in the middle of a conversation about this very subject. It seems that this was happening to a lot of growers in the area. Some had already lost whole harvests.
Although we had some things in common (neuts -and what not) the one thing we all had in common was the water supply. It turns out that due to Homeland security mandates, my area had started using a different type of chlorine - one that does not evaporate. For the record - I do not know anything about chemistry - chlorine - even water for that matter - the only thing I knew was that my plants were dying.
The solution seemed to be a RO system. I bought one - installed it - changed out both reservoirs and the problem was done.
Unfortunately I lost about 60% of the harvest of table 1 - fortunately I was able to save most table 2. Which brings us back to my point - a single reservoir system means that any problem in the reservoir affects all plants. Separate reservoirs generally isolate problems to that single table which may allow you to salvage something.
tat2ue
Well-Known Member
I'm no chemist either but the chemical your talking about is chloramine (sp?)
this is being used as a replacement for chlorine in many water treatment plants as I understand it. Anyway, when I replace or top off my rez, I add some pond water conditioner I get at Walmart in the pet fish supply section. This removes the chlorine and chloramine. Has been working fine for me. And like you, my 2 tables have 4 different flowering stages and 160 plants in it since it is a perpetual grow.
fatman7574
New Member
Monochloroamine has to be broken down into chlorine and nitrogen before the chlorine can dissipate. That takes 5 to 10 days commonly versus chlorines 1 to 2 days. Chloramine use really has nothing to do with terrorism. It is simply that in an open storage situation the residual effect of chloroamine is as stated above longer. They (EPA) though at one time it was safer to use then chlorine as they though it cause the formation of less disinfection byproducts. They were wrong. it just causes the formation of the same and also some differing byproducts just as dangerous. billions of dollars were spent switching from chlorine to n monochloromanine to actually ended up in worse shape. Go figure. As far as the chlorine or monochloroamine causing problems in MJ growing. There is not enough of either in tap water to cause problems.
Pythoff is retailed product used to treat or prevent pythium out breaks. It is made with either chlorox or monochloroamine depending on if you order commercial strength or standard strength. Chlorine is used quite widely in the commercial green house industry at strengths of 4.5 ppm. Most tap water is about 0.5 ppm. The maximum allowed by EPA regulations is 2.5 ppm. I have been maintaining 0.5 ppm in my nutrient water for over a decade. I imagine you would find out if you now added chlorine or chloroamine to your water at a level of 2.5 ppm or less you would not have the problem you had previously. The problem was likely not even associated with the disinfectant but was from other things removed by the RO filter and its carbon filters. As a matter of fact, unless you order special carbon filters for you RO prefilters the system would not even remove the chloroamine.
Regular carbon (granulated activated carbon) or even common carbon block filters do not remove chloroamine. If you did not buy the special carbon filters made for chloroamine the chlorine will eat up your RO membrane. The thin film membranes commonly supplied with an RO filter can not tolerate much chlorine of chloroamine. It weakens the membrane to the point its holes are enlarged and it shreds and tears.
If you checked with your water supplier you would likely find your water contains fluoride. Fluoride is much more toxic to your plants than a little bit of chlorine or chloroamine. It is chlorides that are toxic to plants not chlorine. The chlorine and chloramine added to drinking water does not turn into chlorides, unless you foolishly use an aquarium chlorine "neutralizer" that turns the chlorine into sodium chloride. Fish can tolerate chloride and quite a bit of sodium but not chlorine. IE you can not belive a ot of the things you read in forums or hear at Hydro shops. Not a lot of chemists will be found in either place and even when they write something a handle full of unec ducated forum es xperts always have to argue in favor of growwing myths (from the forums and Hck writers of MJ growing books) and other widely repeated bad advice like the use of aquarium dechlorinators/neutralizers. Chlorine will leave the water as a gas all by then selves given just a small amount of time. The chlorine in Chloroamine takes just a bit more time. The amine is just ammonia and can remain in the nutrient resrvoir as it is a very small amount and will either be used by the plants or get dumped out with the next reservoir change. Most aquarium (nearly all) chlorine treatment chemicals actually prevent this from happening.
The only mandates in regard to chlorine appied to a great many chemicals and gasses. They neraly all only applied to increased security not changes or eliminations. The DEA has actually made some changes such as requiring that agricultural annhydrous ammonia have a chemical compound added to prevent math labs from being able to just use liquid ammonia obtained from farm tanks or railroad tankers.
Now meth labs must make their own liquid ammonia or buy it from easily watched welding/refrigeration gas suppliers.
There are now much more restrictive laws on the use of bottled chlorine gas within residential areas and near schools, hospitals etc. The tanks must be within sealed containment areas rather that simply sitting out in the open.
Pythoff is retailed product used to treat or prevent pythium out breaks. It is made with either chlorox or monochloroamine depending on if you order commercial strength or standard strength. Chlorine is used quite widely in the commercial green house industry at strengths of 4.5 ppm. Most tap water is about 0.5 ppm. The maximum allowed by EPA regulations is 2.5 ppm. I have been maintaining 0.5 ppm in my nutrient water for over a decade. I imagine you would find out if you now added chlorine or chloroamine to your water at a level of 2.5 ppm or less you would not have the problem you had previously. The problem was likely not even associated with the disinfectant but was from other things removed by the RO filter and its carbon filters. As a matter of fact, unless you order special carbon filters for you RO prefilters the system would not even remove the chloroamine.
Regular carbon (granulated activated carbon) or even common carbon block filters do not remove chloroamine. If you did not buy the special carbon filters made for chloroamine the chlorine will eat up your RO membrane. The thin film membranes commonly supplied with an RO filter can not tolerate much chlorine of chloroamine. It weakens the membrane to the point its holes are enlarged and it shreds and tears.
If you checked with your water supplier you would likely find your water contains fluoride. Fluoride is much more toxic to your plants than a little bit of chlorine or chloroamine. It is chlorides that are toxic to plants not chlorine. The chlorine and chloramine added to drinking water does not turn into chlorides, unless you foolishly use an aquarium chlorine "neutralizer" that turns the chlorine into sodium chloride. Fish can tolerate chloride and quite a bit of sodium but not chlorine. IE you can not belive a ot of the things you read in forums or hear at Hydro shops. Not a lot of chemists will be found in either place and even when they write something a handle full of unec ducated forum es xperts always have to argue in favor of growwing myths (from the forums and Hck writers of MJ growing books) and other widely repeated bad advice like the use of aquarium dechlorinators/neutralizers. Chlorine will leave the water as a gas all by then selves given just a small amount of time. The chlorine in Chloroamine takes just a bit more time. The amine is just ammonia and can remain in the nutrient resrvoir as it is a very small amount and will either be used by the plants or get dumped out with the next reservoir change. Most aquarium (nearly all) chlorine treatment chemicals actually prevent this from happening.
The only mandates in regard to chlorine appied to a great many chemicals and gasses. They neraly all only applied to increased security not changes or eliminations. The DEA has actually made some changes such as requiring that agricultural annhydrous ammonia have a chemical compound added to prevent math labs from being able to just use liquid ammonia obtained from farm tanks or railroad tankers.
Now meth labs must make their own liquid ammonia or buy it from easily watched welding/refrigeration gas suppliers.
There are now much more restrictive laws on the use of bottled chlorine gas within residential areas and near schools, hospitals etc. The tanks must be within sealed containment areas rather that simply sitting out in the open.