Fishy Buds

Fishy Buds

Member
(I allow others to post in this grow journal)

Hey everyone! Just starting a grow journal to share information and results of my first grow using aquaponics! So I am already a little bit into the grow, but I will fill you in on the details. First off I have quite the experience with hydroponic growing as I have done many runs in hydroponics, as well as some in soil over a span of 6 years. I have been out of the loop for a while (3-4 years) but am starting up again and trying out aquaponics.

Grow room is pretty simple: Sealed and insulated with 2 rooms - one for moms and veg and the other for flower. All you will see in these pics is the veg room but worry not as the plants are soon to go into flower and then you will get a glimpse into that. Pretty small setup with only 8 plants veg, 2 moms (only 1 strain currently searching for what I want for the other one) and going to be doing a ScrOG with the screen in the flower room.

Ok so I have Sour Tangie as the strain, an 80% Sativa, 20% Indica cross and it definitely shows in the internodal spacing. They are being trained with fishing weights and yes, not the ideal training right now but I was overcoming some issues with some calcium deficiency and trying to overcome some other plant stressese topping, etc. etc. Anyways long story short they got a lot taller than I wanted before training but I am working with what I got.

Onto the aquaponics info: this is different than the typical systems you see people trying to run. This is a decoupled system. What that means is that I have a tank running with fish, and I take that water and put it into a separate reservoir for the plants isolated from the fish system. Fear not as this is still aquaponics in that no water is wasted. After pulling water out of the fish tank and putting it into the plant system, I simply top off the fish tank with clean water. More elaborately I should note that I actually have a filter taking out the solid waste. This solid waste is cleaned out of the filter and along with tank water put into a separate Minteralization Tank where it is churned to stay aerobic allowing for bacteria to break down the solids. After breakdown, this is the water which goes into the plant reservoir. I have about 50 tilapia and two plecos in a 250 gallon IBC tote. The tilapia are new and still pretty small (much bigger than when I got them) with the biggest around 3 inches or so. The system is still maturing so hoping to get better results with nutrient production after a few months. The picture below of the fish is about a week after I got them. I will try to get some more picture of the fish setup by this weekend or early next week.

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So why do I find this to be more ideal than the "coupled" systems you see others doing? One is that I avoid the nasty mess of solids in my grow rocks. Second, logic says plants in hydroponics want a lower pH down near 5.7ish. Though I have seen many great aquaponic system growing produce operating around 6.8, I can't defeat the logic of science saying a more complete ion exchange occurs at the lower pH. I can also keep my fish and plants separate which is ideal for my small growing space. In addition, I can add supplements to the plants without affecting the fish which though some purists would argue against this practice, from my observations most commercial aquaponics facilities follow the practice of using additives as needed.

So without writing a novel, check out the pictures below. First set are from a little over a week ago and the pics where the plants are, well, bigger are from a few days ago. I have solely used aquaponic water for these plants and have only added a little ca-mg supplementation recently when I saw the calcium deficiency and as with all aquaponic systems, of course I add some chelated iron. I also add some homemade compost tea, but this is in a smaller quantity of roughly 1 cup for every 5 gallons and is simply an inoculate against any root borne pathogens as well as a foliar to protect the phyllosphere.


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The most recent pictures show some deficiency starting in the lower leaves and some purpling of the stems making me think it is either Mg or K deficiency (thinking K as it is more common a deficiency though I do add potassium carbonate to fish tank so might me Mg). I sent in a water sample ( the first) to be analyzed this week so I am awaiting the results before I start making additions of any sort. Oh and last thing here are all my specs as of today:

Strain: Sour Tangie
Temperature: Room - 75-78F, Water is lower than ambient but must be close (didn't check it today but will tomorrow) but roots look fine due to compost tea inoculation)
RH: 50-55
pH: 5.7
EC: 1.6

Any thoughts on deficiency are appreciated... or take your bets as once the water analysis is in we will have the winner! The one weird thing is that the moms are not showing near the amount of deficiency symptoms as the other veg plants and have little to no purpling of the stems and yet they are same strain (sister clones), same water, same room. Only difference is the moms are receiving less light right now which I suspect may be the issues as the veg plants might be trying to photosynthesize more and consuming and requiring more nutrients... although at this points the one large mom is bigger than the rest which kinda negates the photosynthesis hypothesis somewhat.... I dunno just kinda waiting on the water analysis as that will shed light on everything.

Thanks for those who follow this grow journal and help with their knowledge and I will answer any questions and try to help with mine - Cheers! (I allow others to post in this grow journal)
 
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Fishy Buds

Member
Not yet but I will once I get a little more time to make a decent video of what I have going on. I'll try to make it as soon as I can and I will also post some videos to show more of my aquaponics system.
 

Fishy Buds

Member
Also still waiting on the water analysis should be in tomorrow I'm hoping! Otherwise deficiency symptoms haven't progressed any further (added a little maxicrop seaweed and foliared its 0-0-1) so since its not getting worse, but the stems are still purple, pretty confident it is a potassium deficiency. Just gotta get something with a higher percentage potassium to actually treat the deficiency more instead of just stop it but the plants are looking much better and still growing which is always a good sign. I don't have recent pics but here's some of the flowering room right before I sealed her up. Will post some pics of it with plants as they will be going in towards the end of the week or this weekend.

This is the radial flow filter which catches the solids from the fish tank and the front of the IBC tote (fish tank) with installed plexiglass window and bamboo fencing around it (for aesthetics and to keep light out to restrict algae growth)

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And heres the shots of the flowering room nearing completion.

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Hazey One

Well-Known Member
Nice apprach!! What a great idea! I used to work with aquatic fish (and aquatic plants) and this is a good idea!
 

Dumme

Well-Known Member
Also still waiting on the water analysis should be in tomorrow I'm hoping! Otherwise deficiency symptoms haven't progressed any further (added a little maxicrop seaweed and foliared its 0-0-1) so since its not getting worse, but the stems are still purple, pretty confident it is a potassium deficiency. Just gotta get something with a higher percentage potassium to actually treat the deficiency more instead of just stop it but the plants are looking much better and still growing which is always a good sign. I don't have recent pics but here's some of the flowering room right before I sealed her up. Will post some pics of it with plants as they will be going in towards the end of the week or this weekend.

This is the radial flow filter which catches the solids from the fish tank and the front of the IBC tote (fish tank) with installed plexiglass window and bamboo fencing around it (for aesthetics and to keep light out to restrict algae growth)

View attachment 3677880View attachment 3677881

And heres the shots of the flowering room nearing completion.

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If so, I use Organic Potassium Sulfate from Alpha Chemicals. Works great.
 

Fishy Buds

Member
Nice apprach!! What a great idea! I used to work with aquatic fish (and aquatic plants) and this is a good idea!
Thanks man seems to be working pretty well so far with minimal purchases of chemicals (a big goal of mine to save $$ and hopefully have dank, tasty, smelly herb). So far all I have had to use is some carbonates (cheap and bought at a local brew shop so food grade) and some cal-mag and Maxicrop. Oha nd of course the fish feed (part of my nutrients haha!)

If so, I use Organic Potassium Sulfate from Alpha Chemicals. Works great.
The issue is I have high sulfates in my tap water (I dilute the tap 1.5-2:3 tap to RO) leaving almost 100 ppm of sulfate already and then I have to see what I get from my fish. I am using such a large amount of water

Really anxious for the water analysis because that will help determine how much calcium and potassium I have. Gonna try to balance everything by adding either calcium or potassium carbonate to the fish tank which will stabilize pH and add a carbonate buffer. The result after the nitrification process produces an acid which will then release free calcium or potassium.

Even then might still need some extra form of potassium if instead of the potassium carbonate I find I'm having to use calcium carbonate to a larger extent. Luckily with the decoupled system I have a good amount of options as to what I want to add. Thinking of some potassium silicate if my silicon levels are low or potassium chloride as I think my chloride levels are next to nothing.... still just playing the waiting game till I make my decisions.
 

Hazey One

Well-Known Member
Those tilapia will love that water, there are some good tank additive/soaking aids that help target a specific ph range and buffer it there without chems. My absolute favorite for this was a special wood we had at the shop it was dark and would tan (tannins) the water (and soften it) and the fish (southamerican cichlids) would breed like mad. You have African fish, they will like warm ph balanced water as well.
 

Fishy Buds

Member
Those tilapia will love that water, there are some good tank additive/soaking aids that help target a specific ph range and buffer it there without chems. My absolute favorite for this was a special wood we had at the shop it was dark and would tan (tannins) the water (and soften it) and the fish (southamerican cichlids) would breed like mad. You have African fish, they will like warm ph balanced water as well.
I keep my pH at around 7.5-7.7 and temps have been steady 75-80 so they are happy, eating a lot, and growing big fast. That special wood sounds interesting I will have to look into that.

Well as of right now I am taking a break in the middle of the last (hopefully last) construction for the flowering room. Building the frame for the screen so I will take pictures of that tonight if its finished or hopefully by Thursday it should be done.
 

Fishy Buds

Member
Just got the water analysis! Finally and my suspicions are correct. The levels of potassium were low showing in the sample around 50ppm. Luckily my Calcium and Magnesium are at more appropriate levels now that the Mineralization Tank is maturing so will only have to supplement small amounts of that. My phosphorous was low too, not a problem in veg but will be in flower, so I will be acquiring some Monopotassium Phosphate which will help with both of these issues during flowering. During veg gonna use some potassium sulfate and monoammonium phosphate so I can control the levels of both of these individually (will probably use a combo of both these and monopotassium phosphate to correct for both issues).

Gonna take your advice Dumme on the potassium sulphate... I can acquire it easily and after some calculations it won't raise my sulfate levels as high as I thought so shouldn't be an issue. I could try potassium nitrate but during flower I won't be wanting that extra N and shouldn't need it during veg since my fish will be producing plenty of that.

Of course as the system matures I will be doing further testing until all nutrients levels from my fish system stabilize and then I should have consistent and predictable results. Right now a little but of a headache balancing it all but soon the workload should go down once the system is mature.
 
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Fishy Buds

Member
Well I got the needed additives... Monoammonium Phosphate, Potassium Sulfate, and got some Silicon Dioxide for the heck of it (doubt much if any is obtained from the fish waste and my water analysis didn't show this as it is not an essential element).

Also upped the calcium and magnesium a little with Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate. To keep sulfates down, some potassium was also added through the use of Potassium Carbonate. Will take some pics this weekend as I have been busy at work and have a wedding going on today. I did get some pics of the fish yesterday, as they are getting bigger, so check out these! Also a shot of my pretty big Plecostamus (helps keep the algae away)

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Fishy Buds

Member
Way overdue for an update but here goes.... Well I acquired some of the needed additives and they were just too pricey from the local hydro shop only had enough for about 100 gallons. Plus I also needed some they could not get for the micro nutrients.

After dosing the plants with the needed potassium, phosphorus, as well as some calcium and magnesium, I stopped progression of those deficiency symptoms and now have the reddening of the stems slowly reverting back to their original green color. Beyond that I found I needed to up my magnesium further than 50ppm and bringing it up to 65 seems to have helped. If I have to I will go even further to 75 but thinking 65 will be sufficient until flower which I was hoping would already occur but started to face another issue.

After adding the nutrients I saw an initial explosion of growth which was almost immediately followed by a new deficiency. I already knew that some of my micro nutrients, in particular zinc and manganese, were a little low. While this was not an issue when they were smaller with less needs, now the bigger plants were craving them. In the pictures you will see it resembles an iron deficiency but this is not the case as my iron is sitting at 3ppm (I have a hanna iron checker). Here is a picture which, although this is the first time experiencing this, shows the zinc issue as some of the leaves have done some weird bending.
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As this new deficiency progressed I had the joy of waiting for some zinc sulfate and manganese sulfate to arrive in the mail. Fortunately pretty fast shipping as the zinc arrived last night and the manganese today. So though the pictures may look kinda bad, the previous macro nutrient deficiencies have subsided and any damage on the older leaves is residual which I don't think will heal too much. Further the new growth/micro nutrient deficiencies have already improved dramatically with just the zinc I added last night and without reflecting the manganese I just added this afternoon. In some of the pics you can see the new growth starting to green up again. Thinking I will foliar with both zinc and manganese tonight to further expedite the recovery process.

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Here is the worst plant before I added the zinc and manganese... its recovering now but shows the extent to which it progressed and how much I had to exercise my patience waiting for my nutrients in the mail.
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Finally here are some pics of the plants in general showing their larger size and their recovery seen by the reddening of the stems disappearing. Also took some clones which stripped the mother plants down quite a bit but hey they handled it fine and will now just start to bush out :)
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Well that's the update! Finally getting things solidified on the nutrient side of things and once these babies are looking better (a couple days) gonna pop 'em into flower and the fun begins!
 

Fishy Buds

Member
Forgot to mention that I temporarily lowered my pH to 5.4-5.5: normally run 5.7-5.8: to increase zinc and manganese absorption to get over this hump and just now before I go to bed I noticed even more improvement since these photos were taken this afternoon... just amazes me how fast the plants metabolize and move these ions. Just always fascinated by plants in general. Love it.
 

Fishy Buds

Member
What's your Calcium ppms at?
Right now about 130 I was tempted to try 150 but at 130 everything seems fine. All the new growth looks great with no rust spots. My water analysis showed initial calcium at about 100 so only had to add a little calcium nitrate to bump it up. A little of the calcium come from the tap water (1:3 tap to RO water) and when adjusting the carbonate hardness I am now doing a 1:3 Calcium Carbonate to Potassium Carbonate additions since my potassium was lacking the most.
 

Fishy Buds

Member
No unless they have one I haven't seen I think their high range only goes to 30... I may be wrong I'll have to check. I got a water analysis done by a lab to get all my nutrient ppm for the fish tank water
 

wezel444

New Member
I am a second time grower and i am new here. I am making a molasses tee and was wondering. Could add one tablespoon of powdered egg shell calcium to it. Or would it hurt my clones. they just started there flowering process. the strains are Purple maui, Oatmeal cookies and White widow 20160519_174822.jpg
 

Dumme

Well-Known Member
I am a second time grower and i am new here. I am making a molasses tee and was wondering. Could add one tablespoon of powdered egg shell calcium to it. Or would it hurt my clones. they just started there flowering process. the strains are Purple maui, Oatmeal cookies and White widow View attachment 3686306
Is that male/hermie? Close up pic?
 

Dumme

Well-Known Member
No unless they have one I haven't seen I think their high range only goes to 30... I may be wrong I'll have to check. I got a water analysis done by a lab to get all my nutrient ppm for the fish tank water
I was looking at getting a "lamotte 4408-0", or a "hach TK0159-Z". Every heard of them being used?
 
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