First grow, 400w, Closet grow.

Hey fellas, First grow here.
Little background on the grow environment, then some pictures.

Temps: 70-82 Lights on, 70-78 Lights off.
Humidity: 40-60%, 40-50ish lights on, 50-60ish lights off.
Ventilation: 1 Exhaust fan, 6", ran thru a cooltube. Fan is cooling my 400w via cooltube, and exhausting room.
Lighting: 400w Mh or HPS, decided to switch to HPS today and start flower due to grow room height. Light is currently approx 16" from canopy.
Grow Medium: Roots organic original soil, i leached the soil at 2 weeks.
Nutrients: Roots Organic Buddha Bloom + Buddha Grow, using a humic acid additive with my nutrient feeding solution at 1ml/gal
I have only fed once using buddha grow, solution was 4ml/gal
PH: Ph is currently holding steady between 6.3 and 6.5. i let my nutrients sit for 24hrs before use and they generally test at 6.3, i add some Natural spring water from the local grocery to my solution mix which tests at 7.0. I have not seen any indications of a PH lockout, nutrient buildup, etc.

Background on the plants.
- I am growing 2 plants from bag seed with unknown genetics or gender.
- plant #1 has grown with relatively no stressors. About a week ago i got some burnt tips on the oldest growth, i pruned it off today when i switched to hps.
plant #2 suffered from slow/stunted/small growth (the new growth) during days 10-17. (currently 21days from begenning of germination) I put a galvanized nail in plant #2's soil and fed it, it has recovered remarkably.
- plant #2 has "the claw" i am attributing this to an abundance of nitrogen, or overwatering, or a combination of both (my soil stays damp for 5-7days)
I am assuming if it is an abundance of nitrogen it will slowly correct itself, my new growth looks fine.
- I attempted to top both plants 7 days ago, i am unsure if i did this correctly. The result on plant #1 is; Funny looking leaves growing from 4 different branches.
I am assuming that after this node with the weird growth fills out the plant will resume growth of normal leaves. The result on plant #2 is; Seems to have had relatively no effect. I am very new to growing and i cannot currently tell if it created 2 or 4 new shoots. the new growth is still very condensed on the top. The interesting difference between these two plants is that plant #2 did not grow odd/deformed looking leaves after topping, so i know i did not cut at the same spot on both plants.
- plants are in 3 gallon grow bags for the time being, i do not intend to transplant to a larger container for atleast two weeks.

Ok heres a few pics, tell me what you think about my plants progression, or decline. Im ready for some experienced eyes to give me some advice or criticism, whichever i need most.

Thanks again for taking the time to read this thread.
*i apologise for the relatively poor picture quality. I had to take the pics with a rather unorthodox method (my camera/cellphone is currently damaged)

You can differentiate between plant 1 and 2 by looking at the very bottom set of leaves. I pruned the bottom leaves off plant #1 due to damage. The bottom leaves are still in-tact on plant #2.

Both plants are approximately 12" tall.

Welcome to RIU. It appears as though you've got things set up quite well, and have done your homework.

You should have a pretty decent grow.

-spek

Thanks for your words of encouragement spek.

I have spent countless hours on RIU in the past month trying to ensure my success.

If anyone has any thoughts, advice, criticism, please provide it for me.

Nicely written up grow. +rep and subb'd. Should be a good ride.

Great call starting out with bagseed. Once you get your game down (shouldn't take long), you will get the benefit of finer genetics.

The plants look pretty good. My only comment at this point is that 82 is a bit high. What is your air intake like for the room?

Nitegazer, hello.

Yeah i am a bit unhappy with my lights-on temperature.

heres a small "diagram" of the airflow

Exhaust Outlet<-[FAN]<--[DUCT]<-[Cooltube]<-[Carbon Filter]
There is about 6ft of duct from the fan to the cooltube. The carbon filter is attached directly to the cooltube.
The fan i am currently using is 160cfm Inline duct fan (like a booster) growbright fan. I am well aware this fan is insufficient to cool the light and ventilate the room.

I was on a very short budget when i started this project, about 300$.
In 1 week i am upgrading the exhaust fan to a 6" High Velocity Growbright fan, 450cfm. The 450cfm fan will replace the 160cfm fan, the ductwork will remain exactly the same.
Once i apply the new fan i am going to give the grow environment 24hrs to moniter temps. If i cannot keep the temp below 81 i will be disappointed.
I am considering installing the 160cfm fan over one of my 6" passive air intakes at the bottom corner of the room.
Currently i have no intake fan, just two passive 6" intakes.
I am hoping between the 450cfm fan scrubbing and the 160cfm fan providing cold air intake i can keep temps around 78-81 max.
The cold air chamber i would be drawing from is kept at 70F 24hrs a day.

Do you think the newer exhaust fan will help reduce the temps by 1-5 degrees F? that is what i am hoping for.
Also, do you think using the old fan as a intake fan would be a benefit?
Here are the grow environment dimensions, closet grow.
- 7ft Ceiling (height)
- 4ft Width
- 8ft Length (deep)

Thanks for stopping in!

No shame in starting inexpensively-- my first grow was in an old wardrobe cabinet with two 175w oudoor hps lights. Warning: the urge to upgrade gear can be overwhemling for some.

Thanks for the additional info-- Unless you have a very large closet, the cfm is not terrible-- it could be improved, but the rule of thumb is to be able to exchange the air in the room over two or three minutes. That would give you a minimum cfm of 80. You should be fine, even with the carbon filter and such. Check my math here:
http://www.bghydro.com/bgh/static/articles/0606_vent.asp

Before springing for the 450cfm, I would look for a cheap intake fan. Also make sure you have minimized bends and any kinking of your ducts. Consider adding aluminum elbows for any 90 degree turns. Check for any leaks in your ducting system. I have a feeling that something is afoot other than the cfm of the fan.

I think i know what your feeling, i run a humidifier during the day. It keeps humidity around 55% during morning hours (when i can afford the heat from it)
during the afternoon when the temp hits 80F i generally shut it off (as i cannot afford the heat buildup from both the light and the humidifier) The humidity stays around 55-40% at the lowest until lights off, at which i plug the humidifier back in to keep temperatures from falling below 70-72ish.

I read the article on ventliation/fan that was posted, that is an amazing thread. After reading that i have decided to use my 160cfm fan as an intake, i believe i will get the necessary cooling with the exhaust and intake fan combo. Thanks for the great link Nitegazer.

Hey i need a bit of help, i switched from MH to HPS today, 400W System.
After the switch i saw a very negative reaction. All of the top leaves show signs of heat stress, and the newest fan leaves shriveled up considerably. I am rather shocked by the plants reaction.
Raised light up 12" for a total distance of about 24" from canopy to bottom of light.

The overall temperature in the room decreased when switching from MH to HPS, from 82 to 79.

That is strange. Any pics?

I have a 400w hps running some seedlings not much more than 12" from the tops, and my ventilated hood isn't hooked up yet. I assume you can hold your hand comfortably over the plant tops in the light.

You haven't inadvertantly changes anything else (like nute regimen)?

Sure, ill snatch a pic when i get home from work, no nothing else has changed other than the type of bulb. I changed the bulb about 3 hours into the plants normal light cycle. so the plants received 3 hours of light under MH. Then within 2 minutes the other bulb was in and running. I am wondering if perhaps this is what shocked them.

So i woke up this morning and the droopiness seems to have subsided, all new growth on both my plants has basically stopped. The center of all new growth and leaves is bright bright green. It looks like the hps shocked my plants, but i think they are on the bounce back today. Will post before/after pictures when i get home from work.
cya.

Where'd you get to, man?

Hey, been stuck right here trolling the forums, i was going to wait until dec 3rd to post a progress picture, but ill snatch a few pictures in about 2 hours and post

Overall looking good, one of my plants has a small problem. a couple clusters of leaves are Curled downward from the leaf margin. Not sure whats causing it.
I plan on giving them a feeding tomorrow.

will be back on with pics soon, cya

First set of pictures are "Plant #1"
Plant #1 used to be a rockstar. I topped it at two weeks (From seed) and the next 4 fan leaves it produced were malformed as a result.
Plant #1 is much bushier than its counterpart. All of plant #1's growth is basically from the bottom, the offshoots near the top are very small.
This plant is the one that seems to be having trouble right now... A few of the leaf clusters are droopy, mainly the leaves are Curling down from the outside edges/margin is raised. Im not quite sure what is causing it, so i am doing nothing about it, lol "less is more."





Now here is plant #2
Last week plant #2 was a few inches shorter than #1, they are the exact same size now, both were topped at the same time.
This plant looks beautiful to me, very good color in the fan leaves, great shape, etc. However... a few leaves have sort of shriveled up (near the bottom) and a couple leaves have showed minor signs of nute burn ( necrosis around the serrated edges of the leaves. ) The top growth looks great, seems to have slowed down its growth rate quite a bit switching to 12/12.




Heres this weeks Climate report

Lights on period (12/12) Temps: 76-82, most common temp 80F. - Humidity 50-60%
Lights off period temps: 71-78, most common temp = 74F - Humidity 55-70%
Light is currently based 18" above plant. I would like it closer, but the plants react negatively when i lower it Leaves start to canoe if lowered to 16" or below.
I have not fed any nutrients this week, only a light watering.
I intend to feed them tomorrow morning a blend of Roots Organic Buddha Bloom + Buddha Grow 4ml/Gal of each. with 1ml/gal ful-power Humic Acid added.

Heres whats in the mix for this week in my grow environment

A new LED panel is on the way! its dimensions are 6ft x 2ft. It is a panel that has 6 different arrays of led lights. (6 square arrays of lights on 1 panel) Each square contains 225 1W LED Bulbs. I am not sure on the exact power draw for the panel, it is a commercial growing item im getting from a friend. My intent is to either hang this large panel in the center of my grow environment to provide supplemental lighting, or i could mount it against the wall and use the entire array for side lighting for my plants.. I am unsure about the side lighting ideas as this LED panel is substantially stronger than my 400w HID. Once i get the new light i will post some pictures for you guys to check out and provide criticism/advice on.

I am picking up the rest of the roots organic nutrient line to start using for feedings
I am picking up some cal-mag
Getting a 8site cloner bucket and a T5 4" 4Bulb system for a different room, but that wont affect my current grow room.
Most likely will be making an order for some decent genetics so i can start getting my feet wet with some quality strains.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Please provide criticism, advice, or plant diagnosis. All input is appreciated.

+rep and subbed. You are set up nicely for your first grow and seem overly careful. Reminds me of my first few grows. Just remember that your first couple grows are a test run and to find out who you are as a grower. Just relax and have fun with it. Youll never learn more than what you will on your first couple grows. Ill subbed to the grow and looking forward to hanging out and watching. Also I would say it just shocked them and they will bounce right back. Next time leave them in the dark for like 12ish hours before switching to your hps 12/12 light cycle

gave them their feeding earlier, they loved it

SSChevelle said:

Hey i need a bit of help, i switched from MH to HPS today, 400W System.
After the switch i saw a very negative reaction. All of the top leaves show signs of heat stress, and the newest fan leaves shriveled up considerably. I am rather shocked by the plants reaction.
Raised light up 12" for a total distance of about 24" from canopy to bottom of light.

The overall temperature in the room decreased when switching from MH to HPS, from 82 to 79.

Click to expand...

im not sure about this but i believe that the average hps bulb puts off less heat then a mh. the burn you see know could be from damage that happened a week ago. i feel like by the time i see a deficiency or some kind of stress its been happening for at least a 5 days. how close is your light to top of plants?

So i think ive got 1 male and 1 female as of now. I will post pictures once i can provide quality pictures. (growths still too small to effectively capture)
My larger plant (plant #1) has had growths where the preflowers should form for almost a week, very small growths.
Today when i went to check on plants at the beginning of lights on period i noticed the growths had multiplied. It now looks like there are multiple little "growths" at the intersection of the branch/stem area. I am concerned about this because if these "growths" were the begenning of preflowers i do not feel there would be multiple little things growing from that spot.

So plant #2 is displaying completely different growth. It has been showing longer than plant #1, about 2 days longer, and the growth that is occuring on this plant is solo. There is just 1 very small nub at the branch/stem intersection.

I also noticed a difference between both plants on the little green things, forget what theyre called. The 4 little things that are on the stem pointing up at every node... well im sure you know what im talking about. So the difference is - on the plant i suspect to be male those little green points are rounded, bulby looking. On the plant i suspect to be female they are very skinny at the tip, wide at the base, and on the back side of them it is split down the middle and hairy.

i dont know if any of this will make sense to anyone, but let me know what you think.

I would provide pictures but it is currently the lights off period.

hey there, the light is 18" above the top of the plants at this time.
Everything will be radically changing tomorrow as i will be adding additional lighting and ventilation

I am also transplanting the plants into their final resting place (new buckets) 3Gallon square mega-buckets. They've got great holes for drainage/ventilation.
During the transplant i am going to correct a problem i have had with my soil since day one.
I am using roots organic soil. It retains moisture for way to long. I have to wait almost 7 days between waterings. (i get antsy usually and water at 5)
It just seems to dampen unevenly, and dry unevenly.

Since my plants have already established roots in a very large portion of soil (a grow bag) i intend to set the grow bag inside my new bucket, slice the bag, and add additional soil around the plant with some perlite. Got a large bag of perlite today, i want to get a good loose mixture of soil/perlite around my plant to help establish better draining.

Also a dose of roots oregonism xl and my new custom tea will be administered tomorrow.

By tea i mean
- Technaflora's soluble seaweed extract 1/3 tsp per gallon. (its kelp) certified organic.
- Growmore Research Farms Alfalfa meal 1/4 tsp per gallon 2-0-0, certified organic.
- Worm castings
- R/O water.

So expect some pictures tomorrow, some radical pictures.

I have this crazy looking multispectrum LED panel i picked up today, no idea what wattage or any information about it. Heres a pic, tell me if it looks usable?? i know thats a vague question. i was told each bulb is 1w, and it requires 4 plugs to run the full panel. each square can be run separately.

how did they turn out? sounds like you know your shit