First Ebb & Grow system, seeking knowledge

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guff6387

Member
morrisgreenberg said:
your gonna want to aerate your rez, and air pump is needed, unfortunatly one does not come with the system, thicker nutrients like fox farms (i use pure plend pro) does accumulate at the bottoms, i use an additive called liquid karma and its thick and heavy and stay down low, dont worry about mixing as each flood cycle will mix your nutes up good, as for water level, your clay pellets will displace around a gallon of water,so if running 20 pots, around 20 gallons will be used, but if you want to avoid violent ph swings and nutrient strength concentrations, the plants will use water daily, making your water numbers change, using a larger amount of water will keep things stable for longer. as for cleaning the clay i use a rubbermaid tub with holes in the bottom to clean clay, this is the only hard labor about these systems. this system in order to have trouble free grow cycles will need a good flush once a month, theres too many pots and tubing for nutrient salts to hang onto, this will mess with your plants health causing lockout and such, i also prefer to raise each pot exactly 1 inch higher than the controller, doing this i have much much less water at the bottom of the pots and less build up
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Does the air pump keep the sediments from collecting at the bottom or is this unavoidable?

Is this Karma suitable with foxfarm? Is it a nutrient itself or just a neutral thickening agent that pushes the sediments up?

Well I looked at ways to get air in the res to stir up the nutes, there are "air stones" or there is like a tubing that you can bend the way you prefer. Which one do you suggest?
I was thinking of forming that tubing around the outside edge of the bottom of the res so it pumps all around the edge of the res.

You say the flooding stirs the nutes, but the sediment will still be settled at the bottom near the pump as it begins drawing the water. So should I set up a ec/ph meter in the bottom of the res because that is the water that will be drawn rather than at the top of the res?

While were on that subject should I get a portable or non portable meter. My buddy said you have to keep the portable ones always submersed otherwise you will constantly be calibrating it. I want something precise so i'm thinking non-portable? or perhaps get both to make sure they are calibrated.

What brand air/pump works well and is reliable?

What size pump would fit a 50 gal res?

I understand that after each flood a small amount of the water in the res will be displaced through the consumption of the roots. So after each flood you should refill the res right? Do you use water without any nutrients to replace the displaced water? If so, then when are the nutes added ? after each flush?

Yea i've read b4 to raise the pots, 1", good to know a precise height. What did you use to put under the pots? I was thinking cardboard but eventually it would warp from moisture and not be the same desired height after the pots weigh it down from flooding repeatedly.

Thanks greatly appreciated
 
morrisgreenberg

morrisgreenberg

Well-Known Member
i cut 1x3's into pieces and use 2 pieces per pot, water addbacks are based on the nutrient solution in your rez, for example, if you have a tds/ppm meter and you r plants do well at say 800ppm, after a day or 2 of water consumption, your ppms are at 950, you will be adding back plain water to get the solution back to 800ppm, ya dig? this is the most common method, but a method that works for me is i give the plants less and let the plants drink up water and nutrient at the same rate, therefore a starting ppm of 800 will go down to 700, this is my sweet spot, this will be the point when i addback whater and light nutrient to get back up, this method is what i call the sweet spot. another example.....many people are hard stuck on a ppm or nutrient strength number, regardless of the plants wants, as long as the plant doesnt burn they will keep added nutes at the same rate, this will let the plant use nutes and and leave behind nutes making your nute solution stronger higher ppms, i find the plants sweet spot of where she drinks water and nutrients at the same rate and leaves nothing behind. i start very low ppms and monitor, if ppm rises then its wasted nutes(this will cause ph flux and high ppm concentrations), now if ppm goes low i now know that she can handle more of a nute load. people think its all about blasting your plants like more is better....ever heard of less is more? since putting this in practice i have never seen more problem free and healthier plants EVER..so the moral of the story is start slow and let the plants tell you what they need, ramming nutes up thier ass will only result in some minor or major issues down the road
 
morrisgreenberg

morrisgreenberg

Well-Known Member
- Meters - they all have to be submirsed in solution, unless its a tds meter like i have(portable) i use multiple rezi's so those expensive combo meters are out, with the pens i do keep solution in the cap and keep the pen upright, hes right you will need constant calibtraion if you dont, whats worse is if you dont keep the electrode immersed in atleast water it will fail immediatly, this goes for all meters that use electrodes(PH meters)

- resivoir levels - dependant on plant numbers and actual size of plants, mature plants drink up to a gallon per day each keep this in mind as they get larger. but if you have a handful of plants on that 55gallon rez and they are fairly small still you can save yourself on nutes and only run half the rez, no need for top off daily, as they begin using nutes you will monitor solution strength and if the ppms start rising you will want to dillute with plain water, thats it! now if your running 30 pots on this system and they are getting big you will notice the rez get empty much faster, this is why i dont recommend running more than 30-36 pots per rez since you will be adding back daily and your numbers will be like a rollercoaster. another thing to consider your water pump that feeds the buckets will not be able to pump every last drop of water out, so always keep more water than is needed

- Air pump - any brand is fine, they are not expensive, my local shop is a thieving bastard and i got a dual outlet adjustable pump for like $18, some like to get a regular water pump and let it stir the water around, either way you go will be fine when combined with the systemmoving water on every cycle
 
G

guff6387

Member
Okay so how is the EC/PPM lowered and raised? Will my res just get closer and closer to my water's ppm/ec as I add more plain water?

So what works better? an air pump pumping air into air stones in the res or having a water pump in the res circulating it? I believe I've read that putting air in your res helps by adding oxygen to the water, why is this a benefit or is it even a benefit?

How often do you check the res?
 
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blueybong

Well-Known Member
You check the rez daily with the ph & ppm meters.

A dual port airpump from Walmart with 2 airstones is plenty. The main rez has a water pump in it for pumping water into the control bucket. When the pump turns on, it creates a whilpool effect that stirs the water.

EC/PPM is lowered by adding straight pH balanced water. It's raised by adding nutes to the add back water. The pH is raised & lowered by liquid up & down.


 
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guff6387

Member
blueybong said:
You check the rez daily with the ph & ppm meters.

A dual port airpump from Walmart with 2 airstones is plenty. The main rez has a water pump in it for pumping water into the control bucket. When the pump turns on, it creates a whilpool effect that stirs the water.

EC/PPM is lowered by adding straight pH balanced water. It's raised by adding nutes to the add back water. The pH is raised & lowered by liquid up & down.
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You run the air pump costantly? What size pump would work for a 50 gal res? Wouldn't the tubing work better than 2 air stones?

What is a good brand meter? Is there one that can read EC and ppm, even though they are practically the same thing.
 
SmokeyMcChokey

SmokeyMcChokey

Well-Known Member
dont re use hydroton if you dont use that chemical stuff that gets rid of organic matter. after you finish a run break open a pebble an tell me there isnt tiny ass roots all in the thing
 
SmokeyMcChokey

SmokeyMcChokey

Well-Known Member
hanna primo meters are like 20 bucks an they read ppm only but its all you will need. just make sure to get a good bit of calibrating solution cuz after a few months you need to recalibrate it just like any other meter. and no your better off with air stones because they diffuse the air better an more of it gets trapped in the water. and go read the box on the air pump it usually says how many gallons the pump will work in and how far below the water it will push the air.
 
G

guff6387

Member
SmokeyMcChokey said:
hanna primo meters are like 20 bucks an they read ppm only but its all you will need. just make sure to get a good bit of calibrating solution cuz after a few months you need to recalibrate it just like any other meter. and no your better off with air stones because they diffuse the air better an more of it gets trapped in the water. and go read the box on the air pump it usually says how many gallons the pump will work in and how far below the water it will push the air.
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I'm trying to get a very good reliable meter, I'd much rather spend the extra money for something good and very reliable. Any suggestions for an accurate meter with possibly a good warranty?

I know you can use advanced nutrients for the lucas formula because AN and General Hydroponics have similar formulas. But can I use fox farm nutrients with the lucas formula? If so, then how? (I plan on using AN but Iwant to use the rest of the Fox Farm I have left)

Also how exactly do you use AN in the lucas formula?
 
pluto420

pluto420

Active Member
I have been trying the stg in the cap ebb and grow system. 3 of the 6 plants are doing ok (but not real good) and 3 are looking bad. I think i will be going back to hydroton after this one is done. I think the issue is the cap e & g cant have cycles less than 15 minutes and from what I am seeing this is the issue with stg. I put a few in another e & f system where the cycles are only 7 minutes and the plants are doing really well and growing fast. So I think the stg maybe ok for a system where you can control the flood cycles better but not for the cap e & g.
 
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blueybong

Well-Known Member
This type of air pump:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10532634

with a couple of airstones and your main rez is aerated. The airstones make a ton of bubbles while the tubing just makes big bubles and not as many. Plus this also keeps the water moving inside the main rez. Yes, these run 24/7.

My EC pen shows EC, CF & PPM.

GH FloraNova is what Lucus recommends. I believe Fox Farm would work, you just need to keep the EC between 2.0(high) & 1.5(add back). Trial & error until you learn how much equals 2.0.

You're getting there!! :bigjoint:


 

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G

guff6387

Member
blueybong said:
This type of air pump:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10532634

with a couple of airstones and your main rez is aerated. The airstones make a ton of bubbles while the tubing just makes big bubles and not as many. Plus this also keeps the water moving inside the main rez. Yes, these run 24/7.

My EC pen shows EC, CF & PPM.

GH FloraNova is what Lucus recommends. I believe Fox Farm would work, you just need to keep the EC between 2.0(high) & 1.5(add back). Trial & error until you learn how much equals 2.0.

You're getting there!! :bigjoint:
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Thanks, but i read some reviews of that pump on that link you posted and majority of the people said it was junk and it broke. That tubing is called a "flexible air stone" and then there are the "air stone discs" and then there are "aeroators" made by Ario and last there are "micro-pore kiln fired air diffusers" Anyone know which is best?
 
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blueybong

Well-Known Member
guff6387 said:
Thanks, but i read some reviews of that pump on that link you posted and majority of the people said it was junk and it broke. That tubing is called a "flexible air stone" and then there are the "air stone discs" and then there are "aeroators" made by Ario and last there are "micro-pore kiln fired air diffusers" Anyone know which is best?
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I'm using 4 of those Walmart airpumps, 2 are from my last grow. I never had had a problem. They run 24/7 for 4 months.

Just so you know. Oh yea, their absolutely quiet.
 
morrisgreenberg

morrisgreenberg

Well-Known Member
via aqua i think are very popular and very sturdy, i drop them all over the place, i hate air stones as i have big clumsy hands and i break them easily, plus i hate the blue sediment they leave, i use those rubber air diffusers, they are flexible so you can concentrate air bibbles if you wrap them
 
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guff6387

Member
morrisgreenberg said:
via aqua i think are very popular and very sturdy, i drop them all over the place, i hate air stones as i have big clumsy hands and i break them easily, plus i hate the blue sediment they leave, i use those rubber air diffusers, they are flexible so you can concentrate air bibbles if you wrap them
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what size pump should i use for a 55 gal res and how many diffusers should I get? I was thinkning just one double XL one should work
 
SmokeyMcChokey

SmokeyMcChokey

Well-Known Member
guff6387 said:
I'm trying to get a very good reliable meter, I'd much rather spend the extra money for something good and very reliable. Any suggestions for an accurate meter with possibly a good warranty?

I know you can use advanced nutrients for the lucas formula because AN and General Hydroponics have similar formulas. But can I use fox farm nutrients with the lucas formula? If so, then how? (I plan on using AN but Iwant to use the rest of the Fox Farm I have left)

Also how exactly do you use AN in the lucas formula?
Click to expand...
thanks for me trying and you attempting to give me bad rep. scrub
 
SmokeyMcChokey

SmokeyMcChokey

Well-Known Member
no but i offer decent info and you try to make me look worse for it. thats what i get for trying to help huh its fine ill just make a nice mental note that your an ungrateful booger. For the record. Hanna Primo probes are just as reliable as all other tds meters. you will hae to calibrate all tds ec and ph meters every once in a while. So your welcome for the GOOD info. hopefully you dont treat every one that tries to help the same way. or all of your threads will go unanswered.
POS
 
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