First DWC grow. Barneys Tangelo Rapido auto

TheMagician1 · Nov 5, 2013

Hey guys,
new to the forum so a big hi to all.
Iv been a grower for a few years now, only ever in soil, some outdoor, some indoor (cfl's and HPS)
Had good results in soil and grown a few different strains now, including -
photo period - south star, rays choice, G13 amnesia haze
auto - Lowrider #2
my latest grow is just a tame 1 plant (barneys auto tangelo rapido) currently under envirolight 125 CFL in a homemade bubble bucket, its at day 17 since germination, it was germinated in a jiffy (peat) pellet then transferred to the DWC about 10 days ago
im using fresh rain water with plant magic nutes (grow,bloom,bloom boost) i dont have any cal/mag as its not avaliable where im from and mail order is impossible.
the water is PH 5.8-6 with a ppm of 8-20 straight out my rain water barrel.
the plant thrived in the first week in the DWC but 3 days ago when roots started to show i added some grow nute, i did it at a modest 1/3 reccomended dose (took ppm to 240). since then the plant and roots are still growing but the leaves have started to brown spot.
the light is about 3-4inches from the top of the plant and temps usually stay around 85-90'F light on.
as i said iv grown in soil before but never hydro. any help would be much appreciated.
i will keep updating this thread with my progress as a 'diary' to help others who are thinking of DWC and maybe learn from my wrongs.

thanks in advance :leaf:

UncleReemis · Nov 5, 2013

Chances are it's a cal/mag deficiency. I've had this exact problem before, and adding Epsom salts (carefully) seemed to help. There are several things you can use that aren't official hydroponic nutrients that contain cal and mag, just do some looking around. But yeah, cal/mag deficiency is pretty common in early stages so I'd say delicately treat it until you see signs showing whether you're right or wrong. Also, keep an eye on new leaf growth toward the top.

TheMagician1 · Nov 5, 2013

Thanks UnckleM,
I can get Epsom salts from a local garden shop tomorrow. Should I just follow instructions on the box to dilute? should I run it constantly thru the whole grow? So Epsom salts will do cal right? Any recommendations on the mag? New growth seems healthy but I don't want to stunt it as its life cycle is fairly short at advertised 70 day seed to finished flower time

gtran · Nov 5, 2013

90 is a bit hot, might be causing the brown on the leaves. Try to get the temp down a little and it should help. Seems like you may need to use more plant food nutes to up the amount of N and P in your system. If the leaves arent burnt then it has to be a defficiancy. If you dont have access to cal mag or any other good nutrients then look into "compost tea". You can make it yourself from plant matter and stuff outdoors. I heard you could grow a plant in nothin but compost tea.

UncleReemis · Nov 5, 2013

Epsom salts is just for mag I believe. You'll need something else for cal I think. Just look on the back, and as for the dosage do some searching. Other people have used it before so you'll find something. I don't really remember how much I had used before. But yeah, good luck man.

TheMagician1 · Nov 6, 2013

thanks guys, i added half a teaspoon per gal of epsom salt in my bubble bucket and sprayed a folier feed on the plant as directed on the label of the salts.

this morning there was some spots of brown on the leaf set above the already brown leaves, when will i see a difference if the epsom has cured it? should the brown spots stop appearing straight away?

ill add some pics tomorrow to gauge the outcome.

thanks again.

TheMagician1 · Nov 6, 2013

i have also removed the back of the unit that its in to aid airflow, temps now sitting around the 80's

TheMagician1 · Nov 7, 2013

update this morning after adding epsom and lowering temps, roots still seem to be growing well but new leaves at the top are showing some browning.

side nodes are coming and the plant still seems to be growing, just not as fast as i expected.

heres some pics.

TheMagician1 · Nov 8, 2013

ok so epsom salts (mag) obviously wasn't the deficiency, the brown spots kept spreading so after HOURS AND HOURS of research and studying deficiencys i came to the conclusion its a calcium related.

so today iv done a res change with fresh rain water, 1/2 tsp epsom salts per gal, 5g soluble calcium per gal (recommended dose on box) 1/2 strength grow nutes. i also folier fed with a diluted calcium spray.

i really hope this works as the plant really is still not looking healthy. root growth is still good as are new growth and nodes

iv never had issues like this growing in soil but when growing in soil i always just used tap water with basic nutes, thought id be a bit more anal with this DWC grow and use ph low, clean rain water. obviously this lacks some of the vital elements needed.

will this plant bounce back and provide good yeilds still or will this have 'stunted' it seriously? im thinking of germ'ing another seed to do in soil alongside incase this one goes pear shaped.

TheMagician1 · Nov 14, 2013

ok so been a few days since i updated this, on day 25 now. wanted to give the plant a chance to get over the cal deficiency and it seems to have pulled thru nicely.

using rain water that starts at ph 5.6 adding half tsp epsom salts per gal and 5g soluble calcium per gal seems to be a good supplement for calmag. still just using 1/2 strength grow nutes. ph rises slightly during the week between water changes but never seen above 6.1

iv put it into its final grow space and new res (3 gal to 1 inch below net pot)

all growth has sped up plant and roots are both looking good now

think i should pull off the leaves that are brown from early cal def or just leave them there?

TheMagician1 · Nov 18, 2013

Day 29

did a res change yesterday, still keeping the epsom salts and soluble cal the same but upped the grow nutes to 3/4 strength.

the roots seem to be going a nasty color at the tips of the 2 main roots, all new root growth has come along really well
the plant really still isnt growing as fast as i expected, side nodes have turned into small branches with good leaves but really aint pushing out from the center stalk much

anyone got any ideas on the brown crud on the end of my roots?

when i first started to notice it i thought it may just be small bis of dirt in the water but im not so sure anymore.

any help is appreciated. :eyesmoke:

TheMagician1 · Nov 23, 2013

Day 34

i added a piece of tin foil covered cardboard to seperate the grow space from the res (for both light and temp) thought this is what my coloring on the roots was down to, it seems to have slowed/stopped since.

the plant has just started to push out, branches are starting to look good and stalk is gettin nice an big.

difficult to tell on photos but im 99% sure i can sex the plant as female today, white pistils are just starting at top node.

lights are still on 20/4

res change tomorrow, gonna stick to same nute solution but just add a little bloom

TheMagician1 · Nov 29, 2013

Day 40

wow growth is good now, pistils are popping up all over the place
getting more rust colored spots on the shader leaves again,think this might be a ph related cal lockout? :confused:

gonna do a res change tomorrow so ill check then gonna go 50/50 grow and bloom.

soil grow seedling at day 7 since germ, planted in multipurpose medium feed soil/perlite (50/50 mix)

TheMagician1 · Dec 5, 2013

day 46

the plant doesnt seem to be reacting well to changing to the bloom nutes, think it may be down to over feeding as im still using grow nutes as well. gonna do a water change tomorrow still with the bloom nutes but cut right back on the grow. white pistils are still coming along nicely, roots still have brown staining.

day 13 on the soil grow, all seems good in soil, i think i may be a little over my head with this DWC grow as it seems just as i fix a problem another comes along.

not giving up thou, ill see it thru till the end, just hope it gives some yeild!

TheMagician1 · Dec 19, 2013

Day 60
DEAD
All pistils have turned brown and shriveled up, leaves are all curling.
Roots still look good but this plant isn't gonna produce anything.
I have learnt that if you don't have access to good hydro nutes and not constantly on top of pH and ppm, soil is much more forgiving.
RIP bubble bucket tangelo rapido
Its soil sister will take its place, she's coming on nicely
Big respect to all hydro growers, that s**t is a full time job!
Still happy times, sitting chilling to good bit of lemon haze ;-)

Peace!

buzworthy · Dec 20, 2013

This is more of a question than a remark, are those nutrients for soil only? I can see the label says soil grow and soil bloom.

"There is apparently a problem with most soil nutrients. They contain nitrogen in a form that is not readily available to plants and that is usually urea and ammonia. Ammonia is apparently somewhat toxic to roots and it isn't readily available. In the soil bacteria will convert ammonia and urea to nitrates which roots absorb so the soil nutrients are fine for soil. There should be very few bacteria in a proper hydroponics tank so you would be better off with some of the more expensive hydro nutrients. The micronutrients are not necessarily going to be there or be water soluble in the soil versions of most fertilizers. They do things like add iron as a chelated EDTA so it is less likely to react with other compounds in the water. That makes the micronutrients more available. Just keep an eye out for the deficiency problems if you use the regular fertilizer. Some water likely has enough of them but to be safe, you would be wise to use a water soluble version that includes it."

TheMagician1 · Dec 23, 2013

buzworthy said:
This is more of a question than a remark, are those nutrients for soil only? I can see the label says soil grow and soil bloom.

"There is apparently a problem with most soil nutrients. They contain nitrogen in a form that is not readily available to plants and that is usually urea and ammonia. Ammonia is apparently somewhat toxic to roots and it isn't readily available. In the soil bacteria will convert ammonia and urea to nitrates which roots absorb so the soil nutrients are fine for soil. There should be very few bacteria in a proper hydroponics tank so you would be better off with some of the more expensive hydro nutrients. The micronutrients are not necessarily going to be there or be water soluble in the soil versions of most fertilizers. They do things like add iron as a chelated EDTA so it is less likely to react with other compounds in the water. That makes the micronutrients more available. Just keep an eye out for the deficiency problems if you use the regular fertilizer. Some water likely has enough of them but to be safe, you would be wise to use a water soluble version that includes it."

Bingo! That sounds bang on what happened here! I got given them by a friend and was told they were good for hydro an were same thing!
Might give it another go in the new year with some home compost tea

TheMagician1 · Dec 23, 2013

Thanks buzz.
Great info and makes me feel a little better as I thought I was going thick in my old age but looks like I was fighting a loosing battle from the start.
I'll try to find proper nutes for my next one.
Merry Christmas

nameno · Dec 23, 2013

Don't give up it's to easy,even I can do it.Just go to Rosemans bubbleponics tutorial he goes step x step.
What was the temp of your water? Something looked slimy or slick.
GL!

Fuas · Jan 23, 2014

Hi guys. sorry to resurrect this post bust thought I would post my experience with Barneys Farm - Tangelo Rapido as well.
I too am growing in a home made DWC and have experienced the exact same "rusting" of the leaves on this strain.

I too went down the path of a cal/mag problem. things I have tried.

1) adjust PH between the levels of 5.2 (Low I know..) thou to 6.5 neither made any difference to the rusting.
2) changed out my whole res thinking maybe a prob with bacteria in there.
3) changed nutes thou 3 different brands. all made for hydo (2 x 1 part and 1 x 3 part).
4) Feeding pure water.
5) feeding only Flower and Micro nutes (No grow) in the veg stage.
6) lights on various cycles.

and still I have the rusting on the leaves.

I have noticed one thing. it starts off as a white spotting on the leaves and progresses from there. which points to a PH problem.

However... also in my research I discovered another post on a different forum asking about this exact same problem. and again the strain. Barneys Farm - Tangelo Rapido.

so TheMagician1 I honestly feel that we did nothing wrong. but maybe this is a strain more for soil / outdoor grows then Hydro.

First DWC grow. Barneys Tangelo Rapido auto

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