Female Clone but found 3 Seeds....?

born2killspam said:

There is a scale of hermie expression, some show obviously and polinate a ton, others you'd swear were 100% female yet contain a few mystery seeds..
For all you know, a little pollen leaked out of a nearby fellow grower's garden, and got into yours some how..
Perhaps you did trigger it to herm slightly, perhaps its pretty much predisposed to herm slightly..
They're all valid guesses until you have more experience with these genetics..

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Thats pretty much what I gathered from everyone's post earlier. Not knowing the genetics of this plant yet, I tested the limit on a few things in Veg and Flower but nothing crazy. I think I've got the nutes about dialed in for the clones I took from her though. Just was odd and I'm glad it was only 3 seeds.

nicktheburk said:

one thing i would think is. The plant that you cloned it from was exposed to a male plant. I'm thinking that maybe the even tho the uncloned plant didnt spit off seeds, the clone did.. could be a rare case there.

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The plant I got this clone from did Hermi on him. Which was sort of why I asked in the original question of.. if you clone from a Hermi, is that clone going to be a Hermi as well...

JonnyBtreed said:

Def. My buddy was growing outside and had about 8-10 plants going, Out of those 6 turned out female. Now he's quite the greenthumb and taught me everything I know about growing outside - he's been at it for a good 20 years or so. Anyways these plants turn into ten foot tall monster plants with colas the size of my calf and low and behold upon harvest, what did we find? Buds completely PACKED with seeds. I'm talking a good 4 pounds of herb COMPLETELY packed with seed. We decided to take a little walk and see if we could find the culprit. Turns out some kids started a grow out in the woods behind his house and planted about 20 plants. Whether they didn't know what they were doing or they got busted for something else, they never came back to fish out the males- or collect their females. But my buddy suffered bad. Goes to show how far pollen can travel. ( it was a good half mile into the woods.)

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I have to admit, that made me laugh (two stoners growing next to eachother without knowing) but DAMN would I be pissed. That would completely suck ass. I've heard pollen can travel a ways too.. crazy shit-


Alright, well I am a little further in my harvest here.. I've got about 3/4 of her harvested and still only those 3 seeds found so far. I am going to post this picture up in the harvest section with a few others but I figured I would show you guys the plant/bud in question. I'll post the details in the harvest section.

Nice setup man

If the mother went herm then is almost positively got a predisposition to do so.. Start looking for new genetics now..

JonnyBtreed said:

Nice setup man

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Thanks bro. Went through a couple others before I did this one.. I am happy with this one, for being not legal... yet Michigan

born2killspam said:

If the mother went herm then is almost positively got a predisposition to do so.. Start looking for new genetics now..

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Thats kind of what I was wondering. I planned to order some seeds here soon anyways but I will still finish these other plants out in the mean time and see what those 3 seeds produce.

don't sweat it this happens quite often the plant fertilized itself and the seeds are most likely females as long as you are sure there were no actual males around I've often found a few seeds in my mature bud and so far when germinated they have all been females also some strains tend to do this more than others - stress ( light leaks,too hot etc) will sometimes cause seeding but there are lots of seeds when its stress from my experiences this be a true statement good luck

Personally I'd rather know there is a male present than find mystery seeds.. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, plants that tend to herm without cause tend to breed plants that do the same.. Good feminized seeds are bred from females that resist turning herm through any natural stress you inflict, and only grow pollen after being chemically treated with giberellic acid, or an ionic silver solution..
Even this method increases the likelyhood of herms in a seed batch.. (Probably due to mutations from the chemicals)..
I'm not a fan of any feminized seeds, but I take offense when ppl purposely produce poor candidates.. Your crop isn't the only crop at risk, as stories have already explained..
I'm not going to push you to abort these at all, I just want to nip Madtrapper's opinion in the bud..

I don't think that's actually how "proper" feminized seeds are made (if you can call feminized "proper").

burlingo said:

is it true that the longer a plant is flowering the more likely it is to go hermi?

because it's trying to keep itself going, through seeds?

or am i insane? possibly....

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Not based on my experience, they just keep flowering until they die.

Johnnyorganic said:

I'm going to stick with the accidental transfer possibility. That would explain why you only have three seeds. An individual pollen is invisible to the naked eye and could have been accidentally introduced to your plants without your knowledge. Pollen can travel for miles.

If you had a hermie in your grow, you would have seen evidence of male parts on at least one of your plants by now. Hermies don't bust pollen and then disappear the male parts.

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Exactly. You'd have found the remains. Ask yourself this; Is itmore likely than not that the female plant went hermie for a short period of time to pollinate itself and then "sucked" back in the male parts, or that somehow just a few grains of pollen made their way onto your girl's buds? To the best of my knowledge few, if any, people are able to make their way around the world without picking up a whole lot of micro-sized stuff. From dirt to pollen to dust to mites.

Seeds, by the way, are not a sign of hermaphrodism. They're a sign that she got knocked up.

Seamaiden said:

Not based on my experience, they just keep flowering until they die.

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oh right, just something i read. sounded kind of plausible.

I'm not saying it can't happen, I know they herm late in flowering (that's gotta look weird). But, I'm also saying that I don't know that letting them go will cause it, either. There is just so much shit that these plants can do to go weird that's all related to sex that it can be difficult to tease apart unless you find obvious evidence.

After a zip my sister got me of some med grade stuff that had THREE measly seeds, and this stuff was so clean, I really think it's more possible that just a few grains of pollen made their way in somehow. Clearly, that's just my opinion. But that's also because it seems weird to me that it any plant would make so little pollen, if there were a herm, that you'd only get a very few seeds. Each male flower makes a lot of pollen, so.. that's how it seems to me is all.

I've seen pollen sacs form on over mature bud that was otherwise safe from hermaphrodism.. It obviously happens far too late to polinate its own crop though..

Seamaiden said:

I'm not saying it can't happen, I know they herm late in flowering (that's gotta look weird). But, I'm also saying that I don't know that letting them go will cause it, either. There is just so much shit that these plants can do to go weird that's all related to sex that it can be difficult to tease apart unless you find obvious evidence.

After a zip my sister got me of some med grade stuff that had THREE measly seeds, and this stuff was so clean, I really think it's more possible that just a few grains of pollen made their way in somehow. Clearly, that's just my opinion. But that's also because it seems weird to me that it any plant would make so little pollen, if there were a herm, that you'd only get a very few seeds. Each male flower makes a lot of pollen, so.. that's how it seems to me is all.

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yes, i agree with you on this one.

pollen does seem the most likely cause of this. well, it would certainly makes the most sense. it's rather amazing what this plant can do! so many little tricks up its sleeve.

i'm surprised i didn't pollinate any of my flowers. i had males very close to them at times.

I have seen single pollen sacs pretty much buried in female flowers, and if the sac doesn't develop properly then it likely won't release alot, or alot may be infertile, or your luck may be due to the location of the offending alleged pollen producer..
Do you spray your plants with water regularily?
I just know how subtle a herm can be, and since the mother plant hermed out, I definately wouldn't write it off as a possibility..

born2killspam said:

I have seen single pollen sacs pretty much buried in female flowers, and if the sac doesn't develop properly then it likely won't release alot, or alot may be infertile, or your luck may be due to the location of the offending alleged pollen producer..
Do you spray your plants with water regularily?
I just know how subtle a herm can be, and since the mother plant hermed out, I definately wouldn't write it off as a possibility..

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There is no question that a clone from a hermaphrodite will be identical. However, the OP simply asked the question.

Correct me if I am wrong, but he did not establish that the mother was a hermie.

When hermies appear they are not subtle. The male parts are unambiguous and when they pop they blow pollen dust everywhere in the vicinity. An undetected hermie eruption would result in much more than three seeds.

SM is quite correct in saying seeds are only evidence of pollination. Nothing more.

Sometimes hermies are obvious, not always..
And he did say

The plant I got this clone from did Hermi on him. Which was sort of why I asked in the original question of.. if you clone from a Hermi, is that clone going to be a Hermi as well...

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And to expand on an explanation there, the clone will carry the same genetics.. If the mother's genetics naturally cause male growth, then that trait will be carried to the clones, and partially to seeds if bred with a male.. If the mother's genes naturally cause it to grow male parts when subjected to a certain stress type threshold, then clones will also be susceptable to herming if this threshold is exceeded on the clone plant regardless what happens to the mother..
Its tough to say how much of the stress inflicted on the mother prior to the cutting will affect the clone as hormone levels could be a big factor during cell differentiation..
Its also worth noting that herm expression tends to increase as opportunities for random genetic mutation increase.. For instance, true feminizing candidates that have been stress tested very well, and bred with an equally impressive female or self polinated via chemical treatments will produce offspring with adecent tendency to herm.. This can't be explained by punnet squares..
A seedling is going to be genetically 'cleaner' than a clone, and a 1st generation clone will be cleaner than a 2nd gen etc..

I stand corrected. Thank you. +rep.

But that begs the question as to why none of his clones showed hermie. I suppose it could be that the mother had a marginal genetic probability of going hermie and was stressed into it, while the genetic probability was low enough to keep an unstressed clone from doing the same.

Hmmm....

Until the OP states emphatically that male parts are detected on any of his clones, I'll maintain the transfer theory.

Yea, from the sounds of things (if it was herm polinated), the herm expression is likely stress related, and managable with his growing technique.. Its quite possible that although the plants have the propensity to herm under stress, he did not allow that to happen and got pollen transfer.. (Quite likely from the original owner if that did happen)..
Do you know where in your grow area that branch was located? Was it up front or buried??
On the otherhand, if they're grown out, and any prove to be true males then pollen transfer from a different source must be the answer.. If they're all identical females (within reason) then its likely female pollen from either his, or his buddy's plants.. If they're all female but really heterozygous then perhaps they came from some mystery herm in an unknown garden..
Actually though, unfortunately 3/3 females is statistically irrelevant and if they show heterozygous nature then they could just as easily be male polinated.. With 3 seeds, only obvious genetic duplicates, or the presence of a true male can yield any worthwhile data..

That incredibly low number of seeds, plus while he says the mother plant did become a hermaphrodite he didn't say to what degree. Is it possible for a herm to produce so little pollen? Did he find any obvious male flowers, or anything that was questionable, on any of the plants he grew himself? That's the thing that seems inconsistent with an undiscovered hermaphrodite to me.

If its a stress induced herm, then its possible only one plant teetered the threshold to produce any male parts.. I have seen definate staminate flowers buried in buds..
Herms can be subtle, and there are alot of factors beyond that.. If the offending flowers don't get the light necessary to mature, if the grower sprays the tops, if the offending flower is directly inline with the exhaust..
Consider how many ppl grow bagseed and find a few random seeds, so they grow them out until eventually their crop gets overtaken by seed..
Herm expression really can span the board though.. Some equatorial sativas are genetically predisposed to grow intersex flowers, but you'd never know it to look at one..

Enjoyed the read, regardless of grammer or spelling.

I always try to make sure I don't make any grammatical errors while I'm criticizing grammar on the internet..