Feds Threaten State Dispensaries Nationwide

Brick Top said:

Whatever the cause, reason or reasons my point still stands. If it could not pass in the most liberal state in the U.S. how much of a chance would it have in the truly conservative states or at the federal level?

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Is this really your main point because its overtly pessimistic , the one bill I assume your talking about (prop19) was like 3% from winning and it was our own camp that voted against it, and secondly what about the bill that did decriminalize possession under an oz that Arnold signed in to law while prop19 was campaigning.

You brush off my post earlier in this thread as if the decriminalization of recreational and/or medical marijuana happened a long time ago, claiming that these actions took place sparsely over the years. when the simple fact is that dozens of legislation is being created every week with strong backing and the people are voting on marijuana in nearly every election. Brick Top you make some great posts on here and I respect you highly as a grower, a member of this community, and my elder but this is one subject that you have simply not done your research on lately. In 2010 and early 2011 the following states reduced criminal penalty for marijuana, Improved the medical marijuana system in patients favor, decriminalized marijuana, or legalized medical marijuana: Arizona, California, Washington D.C, Ohio, Delaware, Kentucky, Hawaii, Oregon, NJ, RI - The following states have pending legislation many which have already made it through the house: MO, Idaho, Washington, Alabama, Illinois, Pennsylvania, SC, New York, MA, IO, NH, Maine, NC, AR, AND IM SURE I LEFT A WHOLE BUNCH OUT - it is very likely that in 2013 that we will have medicinal marijuana in over 27 states at the least and thats not my prediction its the prediction of MPP and DPA (the people who are fighting this fight for us)

What else happened in 2010 & Early 2011 - AMA & VA Recongnize Marijuana medicinal benifits, Obama -"its time to have that discussion", The DEA admits marijuana has medicinal value, Sativex approved in multiple nations, our voice is being herd in the media and its echoed even in the mainstream media from all sides of the political spectrum even the conservative blogs and media (the #1 rated program was CNBCs Marijuana Doco), the list goes on...Marijuana is becoming the new hot button issue and it can not be ignored even by obama and the DEA.


Regardless of all this going on, your right in one aspect, the governments backed by bankers and corporations will attempt to control this, they will want all the profits and ultimately if they get their way only they will be allowed to grow and sell marijuana. The DEA has already laid out for us how they are going to attempt to do this, If they get their way they will continue to bust us while big pharma is allowed to grow and sell it.

deprave said:

Is this really your main point because its oddly pessimistic , the one bill I assume your talking about (prop19) was like 3% from winning and it was our own camp that voted against it, and secondly what about the bill that did decriminalize possession under an oz that arnold signed in to law while prop19 was campaigning.

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I am sure there is a tinge of pessimism in what I write but for one, I am mainly concerned with the national picture and not any individual state. I only used California as an example since it did have a public vote and it lost, even if only by a small percentage amount, it still did not pass. These things are not like playing horseshoes where getting close still counts for anything.

A second reason for there to be possibly some degree of pessimism sensed in what I write is I have gotten high since 1968 and many times I have heard how close we are to making some major leap forward, only to never see it come to fruition. As one of my earlier messages said, I was positive that by the mid to late 80's or early 90's at the latest cannabis would be legal. I said the very same thing as to why I believed that as people now say about how they believe it is just around the corner. Well after waiting 43 hope-filled years I have learned to not get my hopes up too high too quickly.

You brush off my post earlier in this thread as if the decriminalization of recreational and/or medical marijuana happened a long time ago, claiming that these actions took place sparsely over the years. when the simple fact is that dozens of legislation is being created every week with strong backing.

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You are sort of projecting there, taking what you felt and attributing it to what I wrote as if it were intentional. It was not. I was simply putting thing into proper perspective.

You said; "dozen's of legislation is being created every week with strong backing." Not to sound argumentative but a thousand new pieces of legislation could be written monthly, but if you cannot get one to pass a State House and then be signed into law by the Governor, it is all meaningless .. or if talking about the Federal level, getting it passed by Congress and then signed into law by the President.

Last year in my State there was medicinal marijuana legislation written and it seemed to have a goodly amount of support overall. But it was trapped in Committee and never got out to then see a full floor vote where it might have had a chance to pass ... but even if it had then of course the hurdle of needing the Governor to sign it into law would have had to been cleared.

I admit I do not on a regular basis check out what current legislation is being undertaken in every State but regardless of the amount of legislation written, the amount of it is meaningless if it all fails. All that is needed is one that passes. Possibly one or two do pass here and there that I do not read about in the news, which would be half difficult for me to believe since I am a news junkie, but for the most part in most of the states where there has been decriminalization, in many cases it occurred a good while back and in most cases it has not progressed. The amounts able to be possessed and still not be a criminal act in most cases have not changed and no one can point to any State let alone a handful of States where small amounts have become completely legal.

Again again, I am mainly concerned about what happens on the Federal level because even if some State or States were to legalize cannabis, either in small or large amounts and include growing too, people in those States would really only be around half to maybe three quarters, at most, legal, depending on how someone would look at it.

If a State or States made the possession of some amount of cannabis and or growing it legal, at best it would mean the residents of that State would not have to be concerned about their local police (if they lived within some city limits) or the county sheriffs or the State police .... but they would still be fair game for the Feds. Sure it would lessen someone's chances of being busted, but it would not totally eliminate them, as has been proven with the recent series of busts in Montana, so far I have read of 12 dispensary's having been hit, and now this new National initiative, the “Haag Memo,” so considering that what is really of the utmost importance, what goes on at a Federal level, it appears as if things are regressing at a much faster pace than they are progressing.

Brick Top you make some great posts on here and I respect you highly as a grower but this is one subject that you have simply not done your research on lately.

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As I said I do not keep up on every piece of legislation that is written and being debated in Committees or on House Floors so I am sure that there are things I do not know, but I think you totally failed to look at the big picture, at how little progress there has been for a very long time in many States and also what in the end will make the biggest difference nationwide, what the Feds are doing and what they are highly unlikely to do anytime in the foreseeable future.

Brick Top said:

As I said I do not keep up on every piece of legislation that is written and being debated in Committees or on House Floors so I am sure that there are things I do not know, but I think you totally failed to look at the big picture, at how little progress there has been for a very long time in many States and also what in the end will make the biggest difference nationwide, what the Feds are doing and what they are highly unlikely to do anytime in the foreseeable future.

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They DEA has so kindly laid out their plan for us(drug czar himself a couple weeks back), they suddenly recognize the medicinal value of marijuana and their plan is to allow big pharma to grow and sell it moving it to a lower schedule - keeping it at schedule I for citizens and continuing their raids on civilians.

Originally Posted by Brick Top


As I said I do not keep up on every piece of legislation that is written and being debated in Committees or on House Floors so I am sure that there are things I do not know, but I think you totally failed to look at the big picture, at how little progress there has been for a very long time in many States and also what in the end will make the biggest difference nationwide, what the Feds are doing and what they are highly unlikely to do anytime in the foreseeable future.

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deprave said:

They DEA has so kindly laid out their plan for us(drug czar himself a couple weeks back), they suddenly recognize the medicinal value of marijuana and their plan is to allow big pharma to grow and sell it moving it to a lower schedule - keeping it at schedule I for citizens and continuing their raids on civilians.

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I would never say that is an impossibility or that it will not be the eventual outcome. I would only say that over the decades I have waited for legalization virtually the same claim has been made numerous times, as if it were in the works, as if the groundwork had been laid, that the wheels had been set in motion and it was as good as done and in a matter of what would be only a relatively short period of time it would be enacted, that it would be reality.

Pardon my cynicism but when you have heard virtually the very same claim, or at least some variation of it that is basically the same thing, made for decades and it has not happened yet you pretty much reach a point where it goes in one ear and out the others.

In the 60's and 70's when medicinal marijuana use was hardly foreseen by any and only dreamed of by a few, people said the government would legalize cannabis but put it under the control of the cigarette companies and we'd be paying outrageously high prices for packs of Marlboro Panama Red and Winston Acapulco Gold etc. It never happened.

Possibly one day some big business, possibly the pharmaceutical corporations, will have control of legal marijuana handed to them on a silver platter by the Federal government. But claims of such things being in the works are nothing new. Only the alleged recipients of the goose that will lay the golden egg have changed over the years.

Brick Top said:

I would never say that is an impossibility or that it will not be the eventual outcome. I would only say that over the decades I have waited for legalization virtually the same claim has been made numerous times, as if it were in the works, as if the groundwork had been laid, that the wheels had been set in motion and it was as good as done and in a matter of what would be only a relatively short period of time it would be enacted, that it would be reality.

Pardon my cynicism but when you have heard virtually the very same claim, or at least some variation of it that is basically the same thing, made for decades and it has not happened yet you pretty much reach a point where it goes in one ear and out the others.

In the 60's and 70's when medicinal marijuana use was hardly foreseen by any and only dreamed of by a few, people said the government would legalize cannabis but put it under the control of the cigarette companies and we'd be paying outrageously high prices for packs of Marlboro Panama Red and Winston Acapulco Gold etc. It never happened.

Possibly one day some big business, possibly the pharmaceutical corporations, will have control of legal marijuana handed to them on a silver platter by the Federal government. But claims of such things being in the works are nothing new. Only the alleged recipients of the goose that will lay the golden egg have changed over the years.

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I understand were your coming from, here is the source for the rumor this time: http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/10/is-the-dea-legalizing-thc/
Following an interview with the daily caller the drug czar lays it all out.

Under the plan, THC derived from the marijuana plant would be classified as a Schedule III controlled substance, while the plant itself would remain classified as a Schedule I illegal drug.

So, in other words, if a pharmaceutical product contains THC extracted from the marijuana plant, that would be a legal commodity. But if you or I possessed THC extracted from the marijuana plant, that an remains illegal commodity.


What won’t be illegal is if a pharmaceutical company buys marijuana from a government-licensed provider, puts it in a pill, receives the DEA’s stamp of approval, and sells it a price that will likely be far higher than the price of marijuana.

damn. what a great read.. all of it honestly.. and i tend to agree with bricktop on this.. i'm sure that the children of the 60s and 70's would have bet the farm on the fact the marijuana would be legal by the year 2011, but here we are, and the fact remains, that it has not..
i don't really know what we as the smoking community can do as a whole though as the whole thing seems so hopeless at times.. i understand the mmj aspect, and have no problems saying that mmj helps people, but why can't we just say that marijuana used for whatever purpose is legal, and not have to play these games saying its medical??
and all of the states that have passed mmj in one form or another, is basically worthless till things change on the federal level.. i just don't understand how the federal government whom is losing more money each day, can not see the many benefits that the legalization of marijuana would bring to our economy in the many ways that have already been brought up by above posters.. if they, big gov, is not willing to recognize that, what chance do we ever have of getting it legal?? and i alwys think of all of the companies out there who benefit from its prohibition, like the owners of the big prison companies who surely make a ton off of the us tax payers to house our "criminals" in their lovely facilities, not to mention the big pharma's who make big money peddling their wares..

so, what can we do as a group to get this thing done?? i would love to hear some peoples ideas on the subject, but sometimes battling city hall seems like such a losing battle.. maybe we need to take a look at the youth in such places as egypt for some inspiration..

deprave said:

I understand, It is a bit more than merely a rumor this time however: http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/10/is-the-dea-legalizing-thc/
Following an interview with the daily caller the drug czar lays it all out.

Under the plan, THC derived from the marijuana plant would be classified as a Schedule III controlled substance, while the plant itself would remain classified as a Schedule I illegal drug.

So, in other words, if a pharmaceutical product contains THC extracted from the marijuana plant, that would be a legal commodity. But if you or I possessed THC extracted from the marijuana plant, that an remains illegal commodity.


What won’t be illegal is if a pharmaceutical company buys marijuana from a government-licensed provider, puts it in a pill, receives the DEA’s stamp of approval, and sells it a price that will likely be far higher than the price of marijuana.

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As I said; "I would never say that is an impossibility or that it will not be the eventual outcome."
It would still have to actually happen though before it would be more than talk or plans and unless it would fall under the executive powers of the president alone it would still have to clear congress and then be signed into law. If so that could be a major hurdle to clear. Current up to date medical research has shown that smoked/inhaled or ingested cannabis is far more effective of a treatment for various medical problems than any derivatives from cannabis plants. Unless it falls under executive powers and instead ends up in Congress the effectiveness of actual cannabis versus any present derivative would be argued and it would of course be said by the pharmaceutical side that wunder-drugs will be found and the other side would say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and the final outcome could be very different than what some now hope for and are working towards or it could be a case of stalemate where in the end there is no currently acceptable resolution for a majority and yet once again nothing changes.

Is making the changes you refer to something that you know for sure legally falls under the executive powers of the president? If it is, then what you said will likely happen, though it would still likely at least be challenged in the courts, but if it does not fall under executive powers, I would not suggest that you hold your breath while waiting for it to happen. If you did you would have to change your username here to Mr. Blue.


Additional: CBD is the cannabinoid with the most medicinal properties so that would of course be of more importance to drug companies than THC, or at least I would suspect it should be. Also more and more is being discovered about medicinal properties of terpenoids, so again THC alone would be sort of a one trick pony and likely more profits could be had by big drug corporations from other substances found within trichome heads.

Brick Top said:

As I said; "I would never say that is an impossibility or that it will not be the eventual outcome."
It would still have to actually happen though before it would be more than talk or plans and unless it would fall under the executive powers of the president alone it would still have to clear congress and then be signed into law. If so that could be a major hurdle to clear. Current up to date medical research has shown that smoked/inhaled or ingested cannabis is far more effective of a treatment for various medical problems than any derivatives from cannabis plants. Unless it falls under executive powers and instead ends up in Congress the effectiveness of actual cannabis versus any present derivative would be argued and it would of course be said by the pharmaceutical side that wunder-drugs will be found and the other side would say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and the final outcome could be very different than what some now hope for and are working towards or it could be a case of stalemate where in the end there is no currently acceptable resolution for a majority and yet once again nothing changes.

Is making the changes you refer to something that you know for sure legally falls under the executive powers of the president? If it is, then what you said will likely happen, though it would still likely at least be challenged in the courts, but if it does not fall under executive powers, I would not suggest that you hold your breath while waiting for it to happen. If you did you would have to change your username here to Mr. Blue.


Additional: CBD is the cannabinoid with the most medicinal properties so that would of course be of more importance to drug companies than THC, or at least I would suspect it should be. Also more and more is being discovered about medicinal properties of terpenoids, so again THC alone would be sort of a one trick pony and likely more profits could be had by big drug corporations from other substances found within trichome heads.

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The new plan would be any drug derived from the marijuana plant so it is not just THC. I hope your right and that their new plan fails so that medical marijuana can remain in the hands of the people but that is the last thing they want to happen.

I dont know if the president needs to make a decision on this or not but I feel obama is basically a corporate puppet and I doubt he would go against big pharma, big tobacco, and the DEA. I feel like they have somewhat given up on fighting leglization and this is one of their last ditch efforts to cease control on marijuana and create their own monopoly while squelching the legalization movement. They could lose the battle on fighting the users and eventually cave in but growing and selling they will never give up on the money.

racerboy71 said:

damn. what a great read.. all of it honestly.. and i tend to agree with bricktop on this.. i'm sure that the children of the 60s and 70's would have bet the farm on the fact the marijuana would be legal by the year 2011, but here we are, and the fact remains, that it has not..
i don't really know what we as the smoking community can do as a whole though as the whole thing seems so hopeless at times.. i understand the mmj aspect, and have no problems saying that mmj helps people, but why can't we just say that marijuana used for whatever purpose is legal, and not have to play these games saying its medical??
and all of the states that have passed mmj in one form or another, is basically worthless till things change on the federal level.. i just don't understand how the federal government whom is losing more money each day, can not see the many benefits that the legalization of marijuana would bring to our economy in the many ways that have already been brought up by above posters.. if they, big gov, is not willing to recognize that, what chance do we ever have of getting it legal?? and i alwys think of all of the companies out there who benefit from its prohibition, like the owners of the big prison companies who surely make a ton off of the us tax payers to house our "criminals" in their lovely facilities, not to mention the big pharma's who make big money peddling their wares..

so, what can we do as a group to get this thing done?? i would love to hear some peoples ideas on the subject, but sometimes battling city hall seems like such a losing battle.. maybe we need to take a look at the youth in such places as egypt for some inspiration..

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The only fighting chance we have to make growing and selling legal for everyone across the nation is if people actually go out there and educate themselves on not just marijuana but they need to open their eyes to see that our governments have been hijacked by bankers and corporations and no longer represent the interest of the people. We need to preserve freedom of information so we can continue to expose their corruption and also we must fight for our liberty and take back control of the country. If we cant do this then ultimately the banks and corporations will have their way and marijuana will be legal for them and remain illegal for us. (unless we buy their marijuana)

Understand that we must see through the propaganda, lies, and deceit. We must continue to expose corruption with the new technologies afforded to us(internet) I am not going to get into details of examples but you can research it yourself and you will clearly see that our nations government is not acting in the interest of the people of the world nor the interest of the people of this nation but in the interest of their own profits and they use fear and propaganda to control the masses.

Sorry to stray off-topic but I think its important to the topic especially after this question was raised.

deprave said:

The new plan would be any drug derived from the marijuana plant so it is not just THC. I hope your right and that their new plan fails so that medical marijuana can remain in the hands of the people but that is the last thing they want to happen.

I dont know if the president needs to make a decision on this or not but I feel obama is basically a corporate puppet and I doubt he would go against big pharma, big tobacco, and the DEA. I feel like they have somewhat given up on fighting leglization and this is one of their last ditch efforts to cease control on marijuana and create their own monopoly while squelching the legalization movement. They could lose the battle on fighting the users and eventually cave in but growing and selling they will never give up on the money.

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I read the article you provided the link to and while I will admit that I read it swiftly and might have missed something I only saw THC mentioned and failed to see where it said anything else from cannabis, but again I might have missed it and if not it could be a case of incomplete reporting.

I really do not know what it would take to make things legal for big drug companies. I do not know if the DEA can just reschedule a drug or if the president can order it or if it would take an act of congress. I do know it took an act of congress to make cannabis illegal so I find it hard to believe that congress would just sit back and allow the DEA and or the president make the call.

Legal or not I tend to think they would see it as something that should be their decision to make and if nothing else pressure the president by saying something like, you know that legislation or funding you've been asking for? Well you can forget it unless you let us make the marijuana call ... or maybe a backroom decision would be made by congress and they would tell the president, this is the deal, take it and you get what you want or pass it up and forget ever getting anything else from us again.

That's why I suggested that you do not hold your breath because if congress feels usurped, they could begin to play dirty politics and then a hoped for time frame for those who want to hand big drug corporations what they want might go so far out the window that everyone currently involved will be collecting their retirement and social security before there is a resolution.

I'm no Nostradamus or anything so I am not trying to say what will definitely happen, and maybe tomorrow mornings headlines will be that it's a done deal. But like I mentioned, any number of times in the past I heard of things supposedly being as good as signed, sealed and on their way to be delivered ... and they never ended up happening, they were never delivered.

So only time will tell if this time FedEx makes the delivery or not.

This is only pure speculation, but I wonder if giving drug corporations legal rights to cannabis to make drugs was some midnight backroom agreement made between Obama and the big drug corporations that is connected to ObamaCare?

Possibly they held his feet to the fire and said if you don't want us against you in the press and doing all we can to get your plans killed and come the next election hold back all funding for Democratic candidates and when you're up for re-election we won't give you a thin dime either, this is our price. Meet it or say goodbye to what will be your legacy as president.

If something like that were put to him you know he'd give in, in a split second.

Brick Top said:

This is only pure speculation, but I wonder if giving drug corporations legal rights to cannabis to make drugs was some midnight backroom agreement made between Obama and the big drug corporations that is connected to ObamaCare?

Possibly they held his feet to the fire and said if you don't want us against you in the press and doing all we can to get your plans killed and come the next election hold back all funding for Democratic candidates and when you're up for re-election we won't give you a thin dime either, this is our price. Meet it or say goodbye to what will be your legacy as president.

If something like that were put to him you know he'd give in, in a split second.

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Legitimate speculation, 'ObamaCare' was filled with a lot of backroom deals and also deals made publically that show how much obama gave up to get this to pass, ofcourse the infamous corn husker kickback being one of them.

It is also important to remember one of the main reasons medical marijuana has been so successful is because of citizen ballot initiatives in which the politicians really had no say.

your right about the signed, sealed, delivered..and then halted often times with no legitimate stated excuse, there is 100's of examples of this, most recent in my memory is the situation in Iowa or New York last year. I can't predict what will happen if anything either but its just I feel that due to recent events it seems that something is going to happen soon around marijuana and the odds are we won't like what happens but here we stand nearing the peak and I am just trying to stay optimistic, I just hope we can win some battles for the people here, we can not give up on this and we need to continue our winning battle one step at a time.

Gee ... I wonder why the big drug companies are interested in such a lil ole' thing as medicinal marijuana rights?

Medical marijuana becoming blockbuster drug

Annual sales near $2 billion and rising in states with tolerant laws






Jeff Chiu / AP Samples of medical marijuana are shown behind a display case at Harborside Health Center in Oakland, Calif.



By Al Olson Deputy business editor
msnbc.com
updated less than 1 minute ago
There is a noticeable aroma wafting around the medical marijuana industry. It’s the smell of money — with a strong hint of entrepreneurial opportunity.
Medical marijuana is now a $1.7 billion market, according to a report released Wednesday by See Change Strategy, an independent financial analysis firm that specializes in new and unique markets. The figure represents estimated sales of marijuana through dispensaries in states with medical marijuana laws. It is the first time a definitive dollar figure has been given to the emerging medical cannabis industry.
To put that number in perspective, sales of medical marijuana rival annual revenue generated by Viagra, a $1.9 billion business for Pfizer. The rising sales are generating growing interest from entrepreneurs and even some venture capitalists as the medical marijuana market is expected to nearly double in the next five years just in the 15 states where the drug has some protection under the law. If another 20 states pass medical marijuana laws — as the study projects is possible — the market could grow to $8.9 billion in 2016.
“Hundreds of businesses exist around the country that cultivate and sell marijuana to customers. Many of these businesses emerged in the wake of the Obama administration’s decision to deprioritize federal prosecutions of individuals and business complying with state medical marijuana laws,” said Ted Rose, editor of the report.
Rose’s report focused exclusively on the quasi-legal medical marijuana industry in 15 states and the District of Columbia. The cannabis industry as a whole — including the underground black market and medical gray market — generates anywhere from $18 billion to $35.8 billion a year. That is a huge variance and demonstrates the quickly shifting landscape of the industry — and the unreliability of data about an enterprise that is considered strictly illegal by the federal government.
“We undertook this effort because we noticed a dearth of reliable market information about this politically charged business," Rose said.
Troy Dayton, CEO of the San Francisco-based angel investor network ArcView Group, agrees. "It is really hard to estimate an illegal market," Dayton said. "There are a lot of investors sitting on the sidelines because they have no idea about the size of the market. The See Change report changes the dynamics for the investment community."
Among the other highlights of the report:

• California and Colorado account for 92 percent of the wholesale and retail sales nationally.
• Arizona, Michigan and Washington are considered well-positioned for significant growth.
• There are 24.8 million potential consumers for medical marijuana in the United States today. This number reflects the number of Americans with qualifying ailments who live in a current "legal state." Currently, there are fewer than 800,000 patients in these states.
• Business owners say the largest hurdle to success is not financing, but regulatory uncertainty.
• Nearly two-thirds of businesses surveyed — 63 percent — have been in business for less than one year.

Jeffrey Miron, director of undergraduate studies at Harvard's Economics Department, has studied and written extensively about drug prohibition, and agrees with the major findings of the 92-page market analysis, which is being sold for $1,150 to interested customers.
“Finding real dollar numbers in this industry is difficult, but this data seems plausible. It certainly isn’t loony to suggest that there is currently $1.7 billion in the medical marijuana marketplace.”
Miron, however, scoffs at the $35.8 billion figure bandied about for the overall market. Miron estimates the total market at $18 billion — the same number arrived at by the See Change study. Jon Gettman, a marijuana reform activist and author of the 2006 study "Marijuana Production in the United States," arrived at the higher figure.
“Look, alcohol is a $50 billion industry in this country, and about half of adult consumers participate in this market on a regular basis. Only 5 percent of American adults participate in the marijuana market. To suggest that the marijuana industry currently is more than double the size of the alcohol industry just does not pass the sniff test,” Miron said.
The See Change study says investment and business development will be dampened unless the federal government alters its 74-year prohibition on cannabis and its 41-year war on drugs.
"Frankly, the uncertainty of the regulatory landscape has been a deterrent to attracting investors," Dayton said. "But investors understand uncertainty. They understand risk. But investors demand metrics. This report is a big win for investors."
According to the ArcView Group, there is currently about $1 billion worth of opportunity for ancillary businesses serving retailers. This includes everything from testing labs to insurance companies to software developers.
"We're witnessing the beginnings of a legal business ecosystem around marijuana," Rose, the author of the study, said.
More information: State of the Medical Marijuana Markets 2011

The problem is human ambition and motivation, the fact that if it does not directly conflict with a person at the time its a sort of live and forgot about it situation for lack of a better cliche. MANY people want the legalization or at least decriminalization of cannabis most likely our own president supports this and has in fact stated that he does but talk is cheap and when push comes to shove people would rather stand out of the way in the shadows toking their bong because as long as it isn't their door getting knocked down it is not their problem. My mother just the other day read that article in Huffington you posted Brick and told me about it. I could only mentally facepalm myself at the thought of continuing to live in such self kept narrow minded society that is based on the sole profiteering of a select few... though its the same with every form of central government everywhere to some degree... just not as tightly concealed between the clutches of the preached greatness of capitalistic gain.

Serapis said:

A large portion of the nay voters on 219 came from our OWN CAMP!

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This is very true. The majority of my friends have moved from Maine to California to grow "medical". Not one of them voted for 219. Even the ones who sell "legally" to dispensaries.

Brick Top said:

If the government thinks it will bring in more revenue through busts than by legalizing it ... then the nation is being run by people who are clearly insane.

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I saw Jerry Brown on CSPAN maybe 20 years ago talking about the economics of drug laws. The gist of his speech was that drug dealers by and large produce more for the GDP by being in prison than by being free. The real issue is the morality of that decison.

Maine Brookies said:

This is very true. The majority of my friends have moved from Maine to California to grow "medical". Not one of them voted for 219. Even the ones who sell "legally" to dispensaries.

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not trying to jack your thread fellas, as the previous pages have been very informative and well....enlightening. But if i move from y horrible propagand ridden state of NJ to Cali how hard is it to get a medical grow license?

Originally Posted by Brick Top
If the government thinks it will bring in more revenue through busts than by legalizing it ... then the nation is being run by people who are clearly insane.

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Maine Brookies said:

I saw Jerry Brown on CSPAN maybe 20 years ago talking about the economics of drug laws. The gist of his speech was that drug dealers by and large produce more for the GDP by being in prison than by being free. The real issue is the morality of that decison.

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I believe he said it, but did you actually believe him? Do you still believe him? Politicians lie to validate their earlier claims and justify the things they do.

Brick Top said:

I believe he said it, but did you actually believe him? Do you still believe him? Politicians lie to validate their earlier claims and justify the things they do.

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Well, since he was arguing that it's immoral to incarcerate people in order to prop up GDP... yes, i did believe him. Another interesting factoid i pulled from that speech is that, in California, the biggest opponent of drug law reform is the CO's union. Drug laws equal job security for them.