Eagle 20 ew - serious concerns, even in veg

Siino Gardens said:

Your legitimacy is in question as well, how can you say no product is 100% safe, we aren't going down the rabbit hole we are discussing science here.

I want to be clear I am not here to pick a fight just to regulate the bullshit being spewed all over.

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When I say no product is 100% safe I'm talking about those who simply don't understand the product and how to use it. Misusing any product will have adverse effects on health, even "organics" pesticides. In my earlier post I gave examples I gave for forbid f4 or eagle 20, light breaks down the product and not having a good light source will result in having the product still within the plant.

If you spray 10x the recommended of any organic pesticide and smoke it you'll do yourself some harm. No product is "organic" as everyone knows. Trace chemicals even if not added by the manufacturer are in ingredients used to make the pesticide.

It is "science" but every environment the product is used in is different. Variables in one grow room differs from another. Its not as simple and clear cut as you think, such as spray with this and its safe. You simply dont know another growers use of c02, ventilation, air circulation, and in my opinion the most important light source. You talk about science yet discount the multiple variables that cannot be accounted for which break down the product.

Water isn't even 100% safe, if you don't use well water your local water source normally has ammonia spikes and trace elements that can be dangerous for us to smoke. Sure it maybe fine if you drink it but not if you smoke it. So if the water from your tap isn't safe how can any product be 100% bullet proof when you cannot account for all variables?

Its like stating if I go to a river and take a water sample one day then it'll be the exact same the next day. In a perfect world yes, but what if some jack ass threw used motor oil upstream? You dont know what are in these products. If its a pure chemical based pesticide like forbid f4 or eagle 20 then you know how the chemical breaks down and works. Controlling the variables that effect that chemical will ensure the half life and dissipation of the product. As I just stated the key is controlling the variables. Do you know whats in organic pesticides? No because the manufactures state its a secrete formula which they cannot release due to people replicating it and creating running them out of business. So how do you predict the half life and dissipation of the product you state is "100% safe" when you dont know what the hell is in it? You just take someones word when they say "oh yea you can spray up to the day of harvest."? Now who is being scientific here with these so called "safe" products?

We are discussing science but you disprove yourself by not accounting key variables of how it's used nor the conditions their applied in.

You assume that we all understand what your blanket statement was supposed to say, glad you explained yourself. You see the burden of proof doesn't lie on me as I am not advocating its use.

Well my I thought my statement of no product is 100% safe was kinda clear. Sorry if it wasn't. There's too many inconstant instances that are for told to go wrong. Its simply Murphys law 101, "If something can go wrong it will go wrong, it's only a matter of time." Nothing is 100%.

But if a pesticide is chemically based and you know how to break it down, there's no harm using it if you know how long it'll be in your plants system and what breaks it down.

When fox farm ran out of soil, they had to outsource from other places causing a drastic quality drop. Don't you think some companies that sell organic "safe" products are doing the same to meet the large demand?

Totally unscientific.. I hate using fungicides, pesticides.. whatever on any of my plants. And the bullshit about me smoking moldy flowers because I dont use eagle 20..*yawn*...

Eagle 20 for me is a one time isolation treatment for clones sourced from out of state. Do I want to use it?.. Nope.

GrowerGoneWild said:

Totally unscientific.. I hate using fungicides, pesticides.. whatever on any of my plants. And the bullshit about me smoking moldy flowers because I dont use eagle 20..*yawn*...

Eagle 20 for me is a one time isolation treatment for clones sourced from out of state. Do I want to use it?.. Nope.

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You seem to be misreading everything which is questioning your reading comprehension. On page three of this thread you made up some bullshit about me stating that I said forbid f4 is organic if used with nuke em right?

JungleTime said:

If you want a safer organic product why dont you check out nuke em? I only heard good things about it. I'm using it with forbid to keep russet mites at bay. Apparently nuke em works for pm and its safe.

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Note I said nuke em is a safer organic product and that it works for pm. Then you say this bull shit cause you cant read?

GrowerGoneWild said:

Forbid 4F is an ornamental pesticide.

"Do not use on vegetable gardens.
Do not use on plants intended for use as feed or forage.
Not for use in commercial greenhouses or nurseries, or on fruit or nut trees"

Using Forbid 4F with Nuke Em doesn't make it organic or safer.

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I stated that Nuke em works for pm and that its safe not forbid. Go check nothing was edited. Your reading comprehension is near stupidity. You quote nonsense and say "right there" while you think makes sense when in reality it doesnt.

You state that you done use any insecticides but why are you posting on a thread that is about using strong chemical based insecticides like eagle 20? Just because you dont understand how it works you have the need to voice your opinion about it and try to slander others who use it?

There's always a pro and a con to things and all you can see if through your small minded ideals. Open your mind and stop being ignorant. HIV and AID's patients who smoke for medical relief can die or have serious complications if exposed to certain molds like pm. Worst case scenario there better off smoking some insecticide, it wont kill them but mold will due to their immune systems not being able to fight it off. Especially if they skip a treatment.

If you dont use pesticides good for you, and? Did you want others to commend you for your great feet of not using pesticides? Others here do use pesticides and want information that isnt one sided. You clearly dont know the half life of these products and how they degrade over exposure to uva and uvb lights. You probably spray and just hope its gone eh?

JungleTime said:

You seem to be misreading everything which is questioning your reading comprehension. On page three of this thread you made up some bullshit about me stating that I said forbid f4 is organic if used with nuke em right?Note I said nuke em is a safer organic product and that it works for pm. Then you say this bull shit cause you cant read?
I stated that Nuke em works for pm and that its safe not forbid. Go check nothing was edited. Your reading comprehension is near stupidity. You quote nonsense and say "right there" while you think makes sense when in reality it doesnt.You state that you done use any insecticides but why are you posting on a thread that is about using strong chemical based insecticides like eagle 20? Just because you dont understand how it works you have the need to voice your opinion about it and try to slander others who use it?
There's always a pro and a con to things and all you can see if through your small minded ideals. Open your mind and stop being ignorant. HIV and AID's patients who smoke for medical relief can die or have serious complications if exposed to certain molds like pm. Worst case scenario there better off smoking some insecticide, it wont kill them but mold will due to their immune systems not being able to fight it off. Especially if they skip a treatment.If you dont use pesticides good for you, and? Did you want others to commend you for your great feet of not using pesticides? Others here do use pesticides and want information that isnt one sided. You clearly dont know the half life of these products and how they degrade over exposure to uva and uvb lights. You probably spray and just hope its gone eh?

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Nah, I hate using any strong insecticides.. its "unscientific" as I said.. its a gut feeling, I simply dont like it. Have I used them.. sure.. Do I want to .. nope... The closest crop that eagle 20 could be used for is tobacco, and I dont see it listed for that...

I simply dont have easy access to tox screening for cannabis (yet). So my suggestion, if you read the rest of the thread.. Its to seriously limit eagle 20. Its simply too easy for some people to just spray without treating the problem.

Save the sales pitch for your patients.. not me..

GrowerGoneWild said:

Nah, I hate using any strong insecticides.. its "unscientific" as I said.. its a gut feeling, I simply dont like it. Have I used them.. sure.. Do I want to .. nope... The closest crop that eagle 20 could be used for is tobacco, and I dont see it listed for that...

I simply dont have easy access to tox screening for cannabis (yet). So my suggestion, if you read the rest of the thread.. Its to seriously limit eagle 20. Its simply too easy for some people to just spray without treating the problem.

Save the sales pitch for your patients.. not me..

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How is it unscientific? The scientific aspect is that you have pm and you treat it with a product that is designed to destroy the pm. The active ingredient Myclobutanil is used for food crops such as grapes, peaches, strawberries etc. So just because it's not on a list your going to rule the product out? You understand these lists are updated about once a year and when updating they generally remove pesticides and not add correct? The list contains crops approved from when it's been manufactured. Do you think a blue book company will put on a label that it's ok for cannabis? Your logic is flawed. Even General hydroponics will hang up on you if you mention you use their products for cannabis. Go ahead call them and come back. I'll wait.

Just like your whole ordeal with forbid, Oberon uses the exact same active ingredient recommended for a whole range of food crops but at half the strength but you state act like it's death itself.

The science in this matter is that you have a problem and want to deal with it or use it as a preventive measure. Your the one who has unscientific beliefs stating things that I have never said. If eagle 20 is used as a prevention then good for the user. Because he knows shit happens. Dehumidifiers break down and having a back up is a good plan when you have already invested 3 months in a crop is smart, not unscientific.

JungleTime said:

How is it unscientific?

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Like I said before, my gut feeling not to use pesticides in general is "unscientific". it does not give me the warm and fuzzy feeling.. I'll say it again for clarity. Clearly my pest management plan is wrong if I have to rely on eagle 20.

I have my doubts if the dilution of Forbid 4F was done correctly to equal Oberon's AI. strength, I have doubts to if Eagle 20 will show up on a test without actually seeing a tox screen for it. I have doubts if Eagle 20 is safe to use for compromised patients. It bothers me that things like DDT were at one point in time deemed safe by a governing body.

The only time i've had a PM problem was traced back to a leak in the roof, and the dehuey couldn't keep up. I didn't have to use Eagle 20. I dont understand why its almost commonplace to use it because nobody I know uses it, but we have a climate advantage..

GrowerGoneWild said:

Totally unscientific.. I hate using fungicides, pesticides.. whatever on any of my plants. And the bullshit about me smoking moldy flowers because I dont use eagle 20..*yawn*...

Eagle 20 for me is a one time isolation treatment for clones sourced from out of state. Do I want to use it?.. Nope.

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No one wants to use it! But the alternative for those of us who live in humid areas is to risk smoking buds with mold spores. And as another person pointed out if used responsibly and sparingly it dicipates before harvest. I have not had any traces of Forbid or Eagle 20 in any of my test samples for the past two years! I dont even have to treat every crop with eagle 20 or forbid. Only when they start to show up again! The whole point is that many of us who do use it responsibly and test for it in there finished product are getting a bad rap from people who have never even used it!

I just used Eagle 20 for the first time (and hopefully the last time) to deal with a serious PM problem that resulted in me losing about 40% of my most recent crop. I got PM from some club clones that were super contaminated (thanks for that Harborside!). Until this happened I had not experienced any PM in my current grow room. I was told be several people that Eagle is the only stuff that really works on PM so I decided to give it a go.

I dipped my clones in a bucket with a 2ml/gal solution. I chose to dip and not spray because the plants are small and because I wanted to limit exposure as much as possible. Spraying is really messy and it greatly increases the chances of exposure because it releases microscopic water droplets into the air that will be inhaled and get on your skin. I also turned my exhaust fan on high and stood in the doorway while I was dipping so I wouldn't have to smell the stuff. It's f'n awful. I wore gloves and long sleeves and was careful not to get any of the solution on my clothes or shoes, and of course I changed out of those clothes when I was done regardless. When dipping it's fairly easy to keep yourself clean as long as you don't do something stupid like accidentally knock over the bucket.

I plan to veg for at least another month before I flower. If I was even close to switching to 12/12 I would not have used Eagle. Treating plants with this shit when they are 2-3 weeks into flowering is something that I would never do, and frankly........ I'm a little worried as it is given the horror stories I'm reading online. I plan to eventually cut off all of the treated foliage so there is no chance that any of the treated area will be smoked. Again, the plants are small (less than 1' tall at the moment), so by the time I switch to 12/12 there will be tons of new foliage and I will strip them anyway.

The reason I'm posting is because I want to hear from others who have used Eagle 20. Did I do it right? Will my plants be safe for consumption 3 months from now when they finish, or should I throw them out and go back to Harborside to get more contaminated clones and deal with it some other way? The last thing I want to do is poison myself or anyone else. I've read people's posts who say the shit persists for years and everything you treat with it becomes instant poison. However, the data from DOW (the manufacturer) says that the foliar half life is 5 days with 90% dissipation in 21 days. That doesn't jive with the freak out posts from some in the online community who think that using it will result in birth defects in your children's children. No, I didn't make that up. Someone actually said that.

coldrain said:

The reason I'm posting is because I want to hear from others who have used Eagle 20. Did I do it right? Will my plants be safe for consumption 3 months from now when they finish, or should I throw them out and go back to Harborside to get more contaminated clones and deal with it some other way? T

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Even tho Eagle 20 is systematic your fine if there small. Your plant will grow and while its growing the new growth wont have Eagel 20 to a degree, while its being broken down by your light. In two months I believe that it will be completely absent if that, probably quicker but no way to tell unless you test. But in my opinion you did do it right and youll be safe by the date you stated.

JungleTime , THANKYOU! My whole point that no one except for you seemed to comprehend, was that if you do a little scientific research you will find that these products are the latest scientific breakthroughs and have been designed to dissipate under the right conditions of light and time. If used correctly they can make your life and finished product much better! If your lucky, and don't live in a humid area you shouldn't need a fungicide unless your doing something wrong but everyone, everywhere has the borg!
I test every crop I grow,again,to be a responsible provider to my patients, and to MYSELF and I want people to know that most of these gloom and doom statement contributors to this thread have never even used the products we are discussing! So please research it for yourselves and talk to folks who are actually using these products, and if you havnt then shut the fuck up please!

coldrain said:

I just used Eagle 20 for the first time (and hopefully the last time) to deal with a serious PM problem that resulted in me losing about 40% of my most recent crop. I got PM from some club clones that were super contaminated (thanks for that Harborside!). Until this happened I had not experienced any PM in my current grow room. I was told be several people that Eagle is the only stuff that really works on PM so I decided to give it a go.

I dipped my clones in a bucket with a 2ml/gal solution. I chose to dip and not spray because the plants are small and because I wanted to limit exposure as much as possible. Spraying is really messy and it greatly increases the chances of exposure because it releases microscopic water droplets into the air that will be inhaled and get on your skin. I also turned my exhaust fan on high and stood in the doorway while I was dipping so I wouldn't have to smell the stuff. It's f'n awful. I wore gloves and long sleeves and was careful not to get any of the solution on my clothes or shoes, and of course I changed out of those clothes when I was done regardless. When dipping it's fairly easy to keep yourself clean as long as you don't do something stupid like accidentally knock over the bucket.

I plan to veg for at least another month before I flower. If I was even close to switching to 12/12 I would not have used Eagle. Treating plants with this shit when they are 2-3 weeks into flowering is something that I would never do, and frankly........ I'm a little worried as it is given the horror stories I'm reading online. I plan to eventually cut off all of the treated foliage so there is no chance that any of the treated area will be smoked. Again, the plants are small (less than 1' tall at the moment), so by the time I switch to 12/12 there will be tons of new foliage and I will strip them anyway.

The reason I'm posting is because I want to hear from others who have used Eagle 20. Did I do it right? Will my plants be safe for consumption 3 months from now when they finish, or should I throw them out and go back to Harborside to get more contaminated clones and deal with it some other way? The last thing I want to do is poison myself or anyone else. I've read people's posts who say the shit persists for years and everything you treat with it becomes instant poison. However, the data from DOW (the manufacturer) says that the foliar half life is 5 days with 90% dissipation in 21 days. That doesn't jive with the freak out posts from some in the online community who think that using it will result in birth defects in your children's children. No, I didn't make that up. Someone actually said that.

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Your perfect! All traces will be gone in 45 days as will be the mold! My clones from plants that have been treated usually are mold free throughout their whole grow! Usually I only need to apply it every other crop! Love it!

Not sure if this has been brought up but you can get a Spectricde product at Walmart that has the same active ingredient in it as E 20. I think it is called immunox.

Used it before but sure like the way it feels to use nothing at all.

Here is an update on my recent experience with Eagle 20. After dipping at about 30 days before flowering, I burned sulfur in my flowering room twice, once when I switched to 12/12 and again at day 20. I am currently on day 51 and I have yet to see any PM on my flowering plants.

The plants in my veg room were also dipped in the same 2 ml/gal Eagle solution at the same time, but were not treated with sulfur later on. 72 days after treatment with Eagle I noticed a little PM on a single leaf on one of my moms. A few days after that I saw a little PM on a single leaf of a different mom. In both cases I yanked the affected leaf and I have not seen anything else. So, what I'm seeing here is that Eagle is no longer present in a large enough quantity to be effective at about 10 weeks. That's significant since Eagle is a systemic fungicide. At that point you're probably talking about a 4 to 5 parts per billion of myclobutanil present using data from the 2012 study (namely, the fact that 90% of the myclobutanil had dissipated after 21 days). It's likely even less than that, but I'm being a bit conservative with the numbers. Keep in mind that my veg plants are under a 300W T-5 on a 19/5 schedule, so that will undoubtedly decrease the half life of the myclobutanil even further.

Given what I've witnessed I feel pretty good about using a 90 day rule of thumb with plants that had a single treatment of Eagle 20. I am going to have a sample analyzed just the same to see if any detectable traces remain, but since we're talking about a few parts per billion at this point I doubt that will be the case. In any event, I will report back with the results of the analysis in a few weeks.

One thing to consider here is that multiple treatments with Eagle might take significantly longer to decrease to undetectable levels. I only treated my plants once and I plan to use regular sulfur treatments from here on out to keep the PM from returning.

Thanks for giving us an update by an actual user of the product! I have used eagle 20 right before switching to 12/12 budding light schedule with great success! In all samples lab tested zero amounts were detected, and If I take clones from E20 treated plants, they will go thru a complete cycle without PM rearing its ugly head. This is due to the fact that PM lives inside the plant cells. This is why the systemic qualities of this product work so well. Kills it at the root of it!
I hope other folks can learn from this and quit letting the media and non users scare you away from a great product!

Anderstoned said:

Thanks for giving us an update by an actual user of the product! I have used eagle 20 right before switching to 12/12 budding light schedule with great success! In all samples lab tested zero amounts were detected, and If I take clones from E20 treated plants, they will go thru a complete cycle without PM rearing its ugly head. This is due to the fact that PM lives inside the plant cells. This is why the systemic qualities of this product work so well. Kills it at the root of it!
I hope other folks can learn from this and quit letting the media and non users scare you away from a great product!

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Thanks for the input. Given your results I don't expect the lab analysis of my buds to detect any Myclobutanil, especially since I let 90+ days elapse between treatment and harvest. Based on my experience as well as others, if someone's finished product has detectable levels of Myclobutanil it means they probably used it during flowering. If they say otherwise they're probably full of shit.

I've been following the recalls in WA over the presence of Myclobutanil in finished buds. One grower said that his finished product was contaminated because he got clones that had been treated with it. LIAR!!!!! The greedy piece of excrement probably doused his plants with it when there were buds already present in order to protect his sweet, precious profits.

coldrain said:

Thanks for the input. Given your results I don't expect the lab analysis of my buds to detect any Myclobutanil, especially since I let 90+ days elapse between treatment and harvest. Based on my experience as well as others, if someone's finished product has detectable levels of Myclobutanil it means they probably used it during flowering. If they say otherwise they're probably full of shit.

I've been following the recalls in WA over the presence of Myclobutanil in finished buds. One grower said that his finished product was contaminated because he got clones that had been treated with it. LIAR!!!!! The greedy piece of excrement probably doused his plants with it when there were buds already present in order to protect his sweet, precious profits.

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Hey coldrain did u have the lab test done on ur bud? i was wondering what it showed if anything. i use Immunox, which is a weaker version then E20 when i first sit my plants out to protect from leaf septoria but since im outdoors i have plenty of time for it to be gone.

coldrain said:

Thanks for the input. Given your results I don't expect the lab analysis of my buds to detect any Myclobutanil, especially since I let 90+ days elapse between treatment and harvest. Based on my experience as well as others, if someone's finished product has detectable levels of Myclobutanil it means they probably used it during flowering. If they say otherwise they're probably full of shit.

I've been following the recalls in WA over the presence of Myclobutanil in finished buds. One grower said that his finished product was contaminated because he got clones that had been treated with it. LIAR!!!!! The greedy piece of excrement probably doused his plants with it when there were buds already present in order to protect his sweet, precious profits.

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I know that it is time again but did you dose between March and now? It sounds like you might have gotten 6+ pm-free months between applications?

Anderstoned said:

I have never heard more whining bullshit before! You people are a bunch of sheep! To the first entry person" Your full of shit! Feeling weird is in your head! The shit is gone in 30 days!!!!! I have had my weed tested every crop for two years and eagle 20 has never been found in my finished buds!!! I and all of my patients appreciate absolutely zero PM! You people beleive everything you hear and read on the internet, what a joke. Read the label this product is used on food! Grapes are not ornammental. And now that a bunch of ignorant whiners are complaining Dow chemical will have to change its paperwork to include marijuana which will cost them money which in turn will cause the price to go up and eventually that extra cost will be on the finished product and you will all be able to thank the morons for why we all pay more for the bud!!! Dont you people realize that the reason none of these Companies have weed on their labels is that the Federal Governmet still says its a schedule 1 with no use for anything so their not gonna have it on their labels. Then they would be sued for promoting illegal weed growing!! Wake the f__k up people. Grow a pair and start thinking for yourselves or talk to people like me who really know cause I have spent the time and money to make sure!

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I know this is old but if you're still around, I have a question.
Haven't finished reading have thread so I might be jumping the gun to the answer but you use it so I'd rather ask you.
Man you use Eagle 1 week or right before Flower? You've had it tested right?
I heard it takes time to get out of the plant but coukdnt it still be in the bud?
Don't have the PM now but I know it's present.
Organicide only last a month.
Thanks!
I saw the answer from you I was looking for. Chime in if you're around though if ya could. Thanks!