DWC for beginners

leggoeggo

leggoeggo

Well-Known Member
gamebird65 said:
i have been cornfused after looking at hid's and mh's in the lighting subject. is there one out there that dont need ballast or is this necessary? i want to go red neck dirt cheap as possable for a grow. is it possable to do it this way and not have indiana ditch weed?
and can you direct me to a good source to purchase these lights?
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MH (Metal Halide) and HPS (High-Pressure Sodium) are both consider HID's (High-Intensity Discharge) lights... Both need a specific ballast, though you can get a converter adapter to use both MH and HPS with one ballast. Do not use any household socket for a HID!! you literally may have a fire

Get this:
http://www.e-conolight.com/Product/EProductDetail.asp?ProductFamilyID=7&FGNumber=E-MT6H151G

It is a DIRT CHEAP ("fun fun") bulb with ballast... $20 before shipping. Though you will have to MacGyver it a bit and wire a three-prong plug, any may want to remote the socket to hang it easier... but its worth it.

Brand name strains only go so far, it is possible to great weed from some bag seed, as long as it has some good TLC...

Check out "Buds for Less" at any major bookstore (in the gardening section) They do a grow for less than $100 (but they do forgo an HID) and stick with CFL bulbs
 
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joneric1014

Active Member
leggoeggo said:
But really... looks great! Good illustration... One thing I'm don't know, what are the dimensions of these boxes? How tall? Sorry if I just missed that part... The Boxes are 60 inches tall, 44 inches wide, and 30 inches deep. My Supergirl strain wont get too tall for the mother section, but I think your right, other strains might. I may have to LST them hardcore to fit them in there.
I'm not sure if you have much room for mom up there... :-/ So far the Supergirl mom is doing great, I just LST her over on her side, and shes retarded wide, but only about a foot and a half tall at 8 weeks now. Aparrently shes designed for that.

Sounds like you're cloning plans can work... I've never heard anything about cloning too much, as long as you have adequate veg time in between. Define adequate veg time in between please? In between what?

Should be fine alternating strains as long as you do consider somewhat about different heights, because there may be times when you may want to leave a couple plants 'behind' to do a little more growing/catch up and may unbalance the canopy??

I think you'll do more than 1 zip/ per plant... DL told me 12" veg to 2-3' Flower (if topped) will give him 2 ounces /plant... think you're good. OMFG lets pray that this is the case. My fear is that the op wont be big enough to produce, Id love it if my problem was I needed to scale the op down a bit.

By the way, I am a newbie, and in my first grow... though I do my good bit of research, don't mistake my advice for age-old and wise LOL
Thanks for the reply though man, your the first person to give me any solid answers and I been peddling this thread around this board for a week now.
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Thanks alot! Anyone else have any input?
 
leggoeggo

leggoeggo

Well-Known Member
"Adequate veg time in between"
Just mean, if you're using a clone to get some clones from later (cutting out mom as the middle-woman) just give it enough time to veg and heal and get bushy before you clone from it... the whole "babies having babies" thing LOL

with 60" (5 feet) tall... give room for your lighting/hood+ distance between bulb and top of plants

This is a good reference for how far you should have your lights... (6-21" for a 400 HPS)

I think it is good that you are using a shorter strain, still they could easily double in size form flower to harvest... If you give about 1.5 feet for light headroom and another 1 foot for bottom (pot or hydro res) that only gives you 2.5 feet for your plants (rough estimate) still plan on your O per girlie...

No problem man, I've gotten a lot of advice on RIU, would be lost without it.. just paying it forward
 
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joneric1014

Active Member
Ah very informative. maybe Ill need to put the light in a fixed position all the way at the top of the cabinet then. Not sure what else that I can do, i already got the light and Im stuck with it.

Ill have to think on that. Thanks for the chart dude, that rocks.
 
leggoeggo

leggoeggo

Well-Known Member
Have it on adjustable chains if you can, just as long as it can be adjusted all the way too the top... I have a problem with mine, my HPS is semi-fixed, so I have my res sitting on a truck and phonebooks which I lower to change the light distance... much easier to just raise the light :)

Have you thought about topping/fimming? That should help with some height issues
 
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joneric1014

Active Member
Yeah I just took the practice mother I had set up and topped her to watch what happens. She seemed to focus on the surrounding stems and started growing tops in several different directions then, getting bushier bust still staying low.

That very well could be the solution, at least for this particular strain.

The chain idea is what i was thinking as well. Maybe some sort of wire and pulley, so I could raise it all the way to the top if needed.

Im sure Ill have to experiment with that some as the grow progresses.

Im gonna post my grow journal and pics of the process somewhere on here.
 
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onthedl0008

Well-Known Member
Nice charts leggo dude...
General rule of thumb is 40 watts/sq. ft. but reccomended by most to have 50...

Meaning If you have a 4 foot square grow area and are using a 150 watt hps to flower ur plants...Ur total watts/sq.ft will be around 37.5...Which is acceptible by any means..But hanging a 250 over them puts U over the 50 watt mark to 62.5
watts/sq.ft...
The way U determine watts/sq.ft. is simple just take ur total square feet and divide those into ur the total watts of ur lamp. 150/4=37.5

This is the chart everyone should use When determining Light source for there flower room.

The whole reason for this general rule of thumb is: 1gram=1 watt.

Overgrow sirs...U can expect monsterous colas and nugs by just supplementing the right amount of light to ur particular FLOWER area..Not flower room...Utilize watts/square foot in the biggest but best the smallest tightest stealthiest areas for the best results.
 
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joneric1014

Active Member
So is a 400w HPS lamp to large for a 4x3 Armoire?

It cant hurt to have TOO MUCH light can it? As long as the temperatures are ok I cant use to much light right?
 
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onthedl0008

Well-Known Member
joneric1014 said:
So is a 400w HPS lamp to large for a 4x3 Armoire?

It cant hurt to have TOO MUCH light can it? As long as the temperatures are ok I cant use to much light right?
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4 x 3=12 total sq.ft. devided by 400=33.333333 watts per sq.ft.

May be sufficient enuff and u will yield nice nugs ...but if u had a 600 it would put u right at 50 watts/sq.ft....ADD a 150 to the equasion and see what happens lol...
 
leggoeggo

leggoeggo

Well-Known Member
onthedl0008 said:
4 x 3=12 total sq.ft. devided by 400=33.333333 watts per sq.ft.

May be sufficient enuff and u will yield nice nugs ...but if u had a 600 it would put u right at 50 watts/sq.ft....ADD a 150 to the equasion and see what happens lol...
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can somebody use CFLs to get that extra wattage??
 
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onthedl0008

Well-Known Member
leggoeggo said:
can somebody use CFLs to get that extra wattage??
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What is the exact dimensons of the tub u have ur girls in bro?

Supplement number of Watts/HPS true light OutputXSpectrum with
CFL's no...
But yes I do hang whatever leftover cfls I have laying around directly above the colas I feel are worthy enuff during flower..
CFLS have almost become extinct in my grow, Ive began supplementing my CFL's with the "same as" daddy fixtures from home depot.
 
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gamebird65

Well-Known Member
Well I get the hid's now need ballast those seem a little big to me for inside a cabinet or armoir. i'm trying to get out of the exaust fan. although i do use an intake fan to simulate the natural winds that outdoor growing adds. i seen some one threw in the name cfl and it may seem repetitave to you but how are they different than hid's and can they be used in a regular house light fixture?

As for the fellow talking cables to raise and lower. I would do it red neck as hell. peice of plywood smaller than armoir enough that it fits really easy for up and down movement.i would mount light to bottom side of board with wire going up chain like a chandelier center of each side i would put i hooks with a small chain. that would hook to permanent mounted short in lenght chain from top of armoir and with an s hook i would shorten chains on light to raise and lenghten to lower. it is easy to do with s hook. dont know if this red neck description can be a visual to you or not and if so it will work.
 
leggoeggo

leggoeggo

Well-Known Member
onthedl0008 said:
What is the exact dimensons of the tub u have ur girls in bro?
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so when you're talking about growing conditions... do you mean the ROOM(closet, etc?) or just the tub/pots JUST the space the plants take up??

My tub is about 2' x 1.5' off top of my head... I'm not at home near my girlies

gamebird65 said:
i seen some one threw in the name cfl and it may seem repetitave to you but how are they different than hid's and can they be used in a regular house light fixture?
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CFLs (compact florescent lights) are those spiral new weird looking lights that are all over now... the 'engery saver' lights. They are different than HIDs (High-Intensity Discharge) because well... CFLs aren't high-intensity... they're about as low as you can get. I use CFLs all over my house... and so should everybody... go green!!!

Note: The packaging for CFLs may be a little confusin... they have two wattage numbers... their actually wattage, vs what their wattage equivilant is. It may saw 100watts, but its more like 26watts... just as bright as a regular 100watt incandcent bulb
 
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gamebird65

Well-Known Member
so does that mean i have to have 2 cfl 100 watt bulbs per square foot? i had one of them 100 watt cfl's and the plant dried up.i figure to close to grow. so what is the proper distance away from grow on cfl?
 
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joneric1014

Active Member
gamebird65 said:
As for the fellow talking cables to raise and lower. I would do it red neck as hell. peice of plywood smaller than armoir enough that it fits really easy for up and down movement.i would mount light to bottom side of board with wire going up chain like a chandelier center of each side i would put i hooks with a small chain. that would hook to permanent mounted short in lenght chain from top of armoir and with an s hook i would shorten chains on light to raise and lenghten to lower. it is easy to do with s hook. dont know if this red neck description can be a visual to you or not and if so it will work.
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Thats exactly what I was planning on doing after I thought about it all day.

You read my mind.
 
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onthedl0008

Well-Known Member
leggoeggo said:
so when you're talking about growing conditions... do you mean the ROOM(closet, etc?) or just the tub/pots JUST the space the plants take up??

My tub is about 2' x 1.5' off top of my head... I'm not at home near my girlies



CFLs (compact florescent lights) are those spiral new weird looking lights that are all over now... the 'engery saver' lights. They are different than HIDs (High-Intensity Discharge) because well... CFLs aren't high-intensity... they're about as low as you can get. I use CFLs all over my house... and so should everybody... go green!!!

Note: The packaging for CFLs may be a little confusin... they have two wattage numbers... their actually wattage, vs what their wattage equivilant is. It may saw 100watts, but its more like 26watts... just as bright as a regular 100watt incandcent bulb
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Yes bro ur right on track 2 X 1.5= 3 total sq.ft.Putting U at 50 watts/sq.ft. with ur 150 watt hps...
 
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gamebird65

Well-Known Member
onthedl0008 said:
Yes bro ur right on track 2 X 1.5= 3 total sq.ft.Putting U at 50 watts/sq.ft. with ur 150 watt hps...
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so since we use 2 cfl @ 150 per square and half feet then a 4 x 3 armoir would need a total of 8 cfl 150 watts (1.5 x 8 = 12 ) which 12 is the number of square feet. so questions are now.
(1.) how hot will this grow session get with a total number of 8 cfls?

(2.) is it necessary to have so much light for 1 plant?

(3) or after i re-read the post it sounds like ur talking about the resevoir or tub size is the square feet. but i was thinking it was the armoir square footage that was in the calculations? so which is it the resevoir or the entire size of armoir?
 
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onthedl0008

Well-Known Member
gamebird65 said:
85 Watt Compact Fluorescent 5000K Full Spectrum CFL

Product Code:SP85-50-MEDLight Output:5500 LumensEnergy Used:85 WattsRated Life:8,000 HoursVolts:120Incandescent Equal:340 WattsBase:E26 - Medium Screw (standard household base)Maximum Overall Length (MOL):11.3 InchesDiameter:3.875 InchesColor Temperature:5000Color Rendering Index (CRI):82Bulb Type:CFL
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These are questions that have several different answers considering all the variables involved with spectrum and true light out put varying from different light sources..Wattage for cflsxsq.ft. Should not be considered in this equation when trying to put a grow room together based on wattage/sq.ft. In my own opinion ID say to go for a 150 watts/sq.ft. with cfls and even then Ur end product will be fluffy and for the most part..If ur the only person smoking it or not..Will be undesirable to most people smoking properly flowered and cured bud that was grown under hps...

I would say to hit up ROSEMAN in his bubbleponics stealth thread...HE uses cfls and has enuff space to cram enuff cfls as to which he gets the results he is aiming for...

IF ur in a small grow space with limited cooling and ventilation I say go with 1 or 2 of these 150 watt 20 bux shipped hps lamps everyone is talking about...Better results in 1/4 amount of the space required, with 1/4 amount of heat output then the required amount of space it would take for u to reach True spectrum output/watts with cfls to reach hps standards..

Hope that helps

ON EDIT: CHECK out this thread as well...Others can explain it better but LIke ive always said I heard it best said by another grower on here that trying to compare a cfl to hps is like holding a lighter up to the sun...
Good luck in whatever U choose
https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/136065-lumens-sq-ft-required-stealth.html
 
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