Do you have a mammoth mint 8 or HLG scorpion Diablo X? Post here!

TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Ok so the added green is marketing as plants don’t use the green as efficiently as other spectrums . And as stated above it seems neither light will effectively cover a 6x6 watts per square ft. So recommendations? I think the 1000 watt lamps will provide more watt per foot . Am I better buying 2 fixtures running side by side? I’m confused, I really like both the scorpion and mammoth but I’m not buying both! Come on guys give me somthing I can use to efficiently cover my area,not a tent just a 6x6 flood table in an open room. I’ve looked at a few 1k watt fixtures but I really thought I could get away with less wattage or even run say 2 500 watt fixtures side by side,either way my hope was to be able to run at 80% for the first year or so,not to save on electric but to save lamp life.
mammoth,scorpion, or better suggestion?
 
sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
The Scorpion covers a few models and the Diablo or Diablo X is the highest level of PPFD they have in a QB fixture.
I mentioned building (or buying) two (or 3) board fixtures so you can move them around depending on needs.
If you missed it @curious2garden said she was running her X fixtures under full power and in another five years she is likely to still be using the same power...
I'm going to try to reduce my power to around 600-650 after adding another thousand+ LEDs and if I need to apply 700-750 I will but I don't think I'll NEED it.
Another thing that you can do to help is hanging mylar around the perimeter to keep the light in better.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
sfw1960 said:
The Scorpion covers a few models and the Diablo or Diablo X is the highest level of PPFD they have in a QB fixture.
I mentioned building (or buying) two (or 3) board fixtures so you can move them around depending on needs.
If you missed it @curious2garden said she was running her X fixtures under full power and in another five years she is likely to still be using the same power...
I'm going to try to reduce my power to around 600-650 after adding another thousand+ LEDs and if I need to apply 700-750 I will but I don't think I'll NEED it.
Another thing that you can do to help is hanging mylar around the perimeter to keep the light in better.
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I think he's interested in something different than HLG and that's ok. There are a million great lights out there. I'd love to see him get the Mammoth and do a few runs. Anyway I'll be interested to hear what he finally concludes.
 
ChuckNice

ChuckNice

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
Didn’t know you could make 2 seperate lamps out of it.
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So, it's all still wired from one side with one driver, so it is one unit in practice. A bit wonky when lowering/raising but it sure beat trying to buy three 3'x3' lights for my space. I called them before buying to verify it could be done, and they somewhat reticently gave me the go-ahead.
 
sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
I think he's interested in something different than HLG and that's ok. There are a million great lights out there. I'd love to see him get the Mammoth and do a few runs. Anyway I'll be interested to hear what he finally concludes.
Click to expand...
It is.
Flavor of the day?
Not for me but I'd rather not see someone drop a grand or more and be disappointed in the cost over performance.
You won't know if you don't have both to compare to either.
I'd go into particulars but I'll just say that we've exchanged a "few" PMs about lighting and being a DIY fixture guy - I've been down the road before lol!
The mammoth is a good light also but I don't consider it the best looking at the specifications and marketing hype (I could have used a more vulgar term though).
If I were to build something I'd need new drivers for the Diablo boards, which I was able to procure last I checked and it was pricey to get a dozen of them and a few drivers are more expensive than when I was actively building for others.
You don't see those boards on HLG site because people were blowing them up (reverse polarity) and they can't warranty others mistakes.
He's already got lower performance lighting like I already own but he said he wanted the best - factor in the cost of the X with a big discount and looking at the fact that HLG isn't publishing specs for the asian to rip-off speaks volumes. There's more like a few dozen great lights out there and hundreds of just good lights out there and even the crummy ones will grow a plant.
As far as the best advice I can give is if you want one of the best compare the REAL specs and don't sell yourself short... Especially if you can't just drop another grand if your choice wasn't a good one.
GL as always!
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
What makes Hlg so much better? The diodes or how hard they drive them? I ran into a few people here w the 1k mars with the Samsung evo diodes that seem to love them. Personally I want to stay away from mars and spiderfarm, but I’m sure there’s a top notch light out there for me! I’m just really unsure and confused when it comes down to drivers,diodes, par, and efficiency. I also like the 1k ac infinity evo, and grand masters tarantula. I was hoping more people with the mammoth would post pix of their grows like curious2 garden. So anybody feel free to post pix of your grows and lights.all welcome!
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
TheChemist77 said:
What makes Hlg so much better? The diodes or how hard they drive them? I ran into a few people here w the 1k mars with the Samsung evo diodes that seem to love them. Personally I want to stay away from mars and spiderfarm, but I’m sure there’s a top notch light out there for me! I’m just really unsure and confused when it comes down to drivers,diodes, par, and efficiency. I also like the 1k ac infinity evo, and grand masters tarantula. I was hoping more people with the mammoth would post pix of their grows like curious2 garden. So anybody feel free to post pix of your grows and lights.all welcome!
Click to expand...
Why not take a few minutes and head over to the Grow Journal forum and check to see what grows you like and the lights they are running. Also a great way to find new strains you could be interested in growing.
 
jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
I'd like to see some pix too.
The problem with a lot of the asian stuff is they aren't really Samsung diodes or they will buy the cheapest bidder (lower bin efficiency) 301's and say they're top bin mint and they NOT.
There's a few guys here (@Rocket Soul ) is one and I hope he doesn't think I'm tossing him under the bus, but he knows his dookey!
Some are really wizards at the stuff and LED Teknik is busy working on them and he knows about the asian fake games all to well...
Hopefully he'll pop in and spread a little joy in regards to the fake parts or lies because he's seen it too.

Facts are all white light has green already and adding some doesn't do anything else but add more "stuff" to filter out in the marketing noise. I'm not the only one that's grown more than a quarter oz on straight 3000k and it contains a lot of RED already which penetrates the canopy better AND increases growth.
@shimbob is another guy that's seen a thing or two about the diode lies lol!

It certainly doesn't hurt to look at others pictures, but I previously said just about ANY of these lights will grow a plant, but some do it far better. If you get the mammoth you HAVE TO get me pictures and information about your results @TheChemist77 .
I think I gave you my email? If not I can - you & I will probably swap a few more PMs lol!
Keep em coming people!
:peace:
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
sfw1960 said:
I'd like to see some pix too.
The problem with a lot of the asian stuff is they aren't really Samsung diodes or they will buy the cheapest bidder (lower bin efficiency) 301's and say they're top bin mint and they NOT.
There's a few guys here (@Rocket Soul ) is one and I hope he doesn't think I'm tossing him under the bus, but he knows his dookey!
Some are really wizards at the stuff and LED Teknik is busy working on them and he knows about the asian fake games all to well...
Hopefully he'll pop in and spread a little joy in regards to the fake parts or lies because he's seen it too.

Facts are all white light has green already and adding some doesn't do anything else but add more "stuff" to filter out in the marketing noise. I'm not the only one that's grown more than a quarter oz on straight 3000k and it contains a lot of RED already which penetrates the canopy better AND increases growth.
@shimbob is another guy that's seen a thing or two about the diode lies lol!

It certainly doesn't hurt to look at others pictures, but I previously said just about ANY of these lights will grow a plant, but some do it far better. If you get the mammoth you HAVE TO get me pictures and information about your results @TheChemist77 .
I think I gave you my email? If not I can - you & I will probably swap a few more PMs lol!
Keep em coming people!
:peace:
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This green supplemented spectrum is based around an article/study about green light being more efficiently photosynthetically at high intensities than red light, apparently due to penetrating deeper into the leaf and cannopy. This study is only really publicly available as an abstract, never been able to read the whole study or see the numbers. To my knowledge this is the only mention of this online. Yes, it could be marketing hype but i do think mammoth probably tested their new spectrum with at least some positive results, likely somewhat better yield.

However im not completely sold on green. From general horticulture (but i havent really seen any canna related science): green has a morphological response in the plant based around where it is most prominent: intra cannopy, where green is very abundant.
The plant green response is based around reversing the blue response (transpiration, node length etc) but it also changes the type of plant tissue grown; green grows a more fibrous tissue of more of a support character; like if the plant was trying to build more branch like tissue with more fibrous growth. This makes sense; if high green is the "intracannopy" trigger we could expect it create ideal plant conditions in an intracannopy environment; low transpiration means the water and nutes get redirected towards top cannopy and apical growth while also creating tissue which will better support the top cannopy; branches and fibrous growth.

Being more fibrous its very possible that green yields very well but i dont think that extra yield really adds more than just weight by making bud growth of more dense and fibrous tissue. Dense, as in buds weighing more for the same size. More weight but same, or even slightly diluted high. Our own tests of various different white diodes and monos hasnt really given any positive results in quality with regards to green. However i dont have any real numbers to support this, only that our green heavy fixture (4000k +660 + uva/uvb + far red) was underwhelming when it came to our subjective evaluation of quality and other green heavy fixtures following the same trend.

Ive attached a screenshot of me googling this green study; look for the irony below:
Screenshot_2024-03-19-10-00-33-958_com.android.chrome.jpg

Google answers other popular querries regarding green and seems be answering why green is minimally effective in photosynthesis but in the next breath why its the most efficient color in photosynthesis. So there really doesnt seem to be much consensus.
 
shimbob

shimbob

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the vote of confidence but please don't bunch me in with the spectrum specialists. I gotta pick my battles and prefer to stick with knowing plenty about electrical circuits, automation, environmental control, programming, engineering, thermal dynamics, fluid mechanics, etc. :)
 
sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
Rocket Soul said:
This green supplemented spectrum is based around an article/study about green light being more efficiently photosynthetically at high intensities than red light, apparently due to penetrating deeper into the leaf and cannopy. This study is only really publicly available as an abstract, never been able to read the whole study or see the numbers. To my knowledge this is the only mention of this online. Yes, it could be marketing hype but i do think mammoth probably tested their new spectrum with at least some positive results, likely somewhat better yield.

However im not completely sold on green. From general horticulture (but i havent really seen any canna related science): green has a morphological response in the plant based around where it is most prominent: intra cannopy, where green is very abundant.
The plant green response is based around reversing the blue response (transpiration, node length etc) but it also changes the type of plant tissue grown; green grows a more fibrous tissue of more of a support character; like if the plant was trying to build more branch like tissue with more fibrous growth. This makes sense; if high green is the "intracannopy" trigger we could expect it create ideal plant conditions in an intracannopy environment; low transpiration means the water and nutes get redirected towards top cannopy and apical growth while also creating tissue which will better support the top cannopy; branches and fibrous growth.

Being more fibrous its very possible that green yields very well but i dont think that extra yield really adds more than just weight by making bud growth of more dense and fibrous tissue. Dense, as in buds weighing more for the same size. More weight but same, or even slightly diluted high. Our own tests of various different white diodes and monos hasnt really given any positive results in quality with regards to green. However i dont have any real numbers to support this, only that our green heavy fixture (4000k +660 + uva/uvb + far red) was underwhelming when it came to our subjective evaluation of quality and other green heavy fixtures following the same trend.

Ive attached a screenshot of me googling this green study; look for the irony below:
View attachment 5379075

Google answers other popular querries regarding green and seems be answering why green is minimally effective in photosynthesis but in the next breath why its the most efficient color in photosynthesis. So there really doesnt seem to be much consensus.
Click to expand...
Thanks again RS, nice write up!
FWIW I have a couple green LED headlights for working on the plants during lights out...
One or the other - makes sense if you don't think about it. :rolleyes: :lol:

shimbob said:
Thanks for the vote of confidence but please don't bunch me in with the spectrum specialists. I gotta pick my battles and prefer to stick with knowing plenty about electrical circuits, automation, environmental control, programming, engineering, thermal dynamics, fluid mechanics, etc. :)
Click to expand...
You do know plenty about luminaries too but I fully understand and definitely good choice of words for choosing battles because I think we've all been there.
TheChemist77 said:
Any grow journals you recommend checking?
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Scope out what JH1 has posted?
Maybe not a journal but there's probably pictures of the results...
 
J

Jonesfamily7715

Well-Known Member
Watch when they figure out how to efficiently make a cheap uvb diode it'll be the next "most important color" on our lights lol. There will always be something missing from a led grow light, that's how they keep selling them to us, Imagine buying 50 of these thousand dollar lights then theyre obsolete next year. Facebook marketplace is loaded with em
 
sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
Probably!
UV LEDs are all inefficient and they all burn out faster than fast.
I run regular 365 nm UVA during seedling stage and after that b0llzOut with white.
Old white too lol!
 
iggy097

iggy097

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
What makes Hlg so much better? The diodes or how hard they drive them? I ran into a few people here w the 1k mars with the Samsung evo diodes that seem to love them. Personally I want to stay away from mars and spiderfarm, but I’m sure there’s a top notch light out there for me! I’m just really unsure and confused when it comes down to drivers,diodes, par, and efficiency. I also like the 1k ac infinity evo, and grand masters tarantula. I was hoping more people with the mammoth would post pix of their grows like curious2 garden. So anybody feel free to post pix of your grows and lights.all welcome!
Click to expand...

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I’m running mammoth. Feel free to look at the pics. However now that I’m out of the tents and have more room I’m looking at the GML Borg evolution. Nothing wrong with the Mammoth at all.
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
Where does GML post their Spectrum Distribution Graphs? I can’t find any on their website and only found one pic on IG that shows the Voyager model’s tunable spectrum.

Seems odd not to have the spectrum graphs of each model on their product page. Especially for lights that are in the upper price tier of grow lights.
 
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cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
IMG_0804.jpeg

Tarantula Voyager spectrum(s).
Some basic 80 CRI white (looks like 4000K & 2700K) + Evo Mint diodes with a couple of 660 nm monos.

Looks like the Evos and cooler temp “white” chips are on the same channel, and the warmer “white” chips and 660nm are on the other channel.
 
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sfw1960

sfw1960

Well-Known Member
iggy097 said:

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Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.
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I’m running mammoth. Feel free to look at the pics. However now that I’m out of the tents and have more room I’m looking at the GML Borg evolution. Nothing wrong with the Mammoth at all.
Click to expand...
Could post here?
He was looking here for comparison.
Not everyone is a "social" butterfly and I can't see anything from that link - maybe @TheChemist77 does IDK.
 
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