Do my flowers look right?

Porky101

Well-Known Member
I'm on the Calcium bandwagon - that's what it looks like to me, too. Middle-upper fan leaves = immobile nutrient lockout. Rust spots near the veins and leaf edges and tips usually = Ca lock-out/deficiency.

And I don't mean to spoil the party, but have you checked under some of those leaves for mites? You have lots of small pin-prick dots on some of those leaves that look suspiciously like mite damage, but may also be Ca spotting. You might want to check, just to be sure.

First image, post #9 in particular.

Yes I have mites. I am refusing to spray my plants with anything. I have lots of wind on the canopy. I have had mites since week one. They dont seem to be spreading or getting worse. So Im not too concerned.

Same with the PM. it seems to be under control.


Yes I have been growing it for 8 years, but in different environments. This is my first run in this room. I am also testing out another formula I made, So although the plant is 8 years and I have been growing it for 8 years, I havent stuck to one way, I am always learning...

I agree on the CA deficiency. I believe that was caused by me switching to flowering nutes too soon. (Flower nutes low in CA).

Im going to foilar feed with Calcium Nitrate now for some CA. I hope thats not too bad an idea.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Ah well that would explain it. Foliar is fine. But as someone who has had mites before, I would be a bit concerned. A few mites can turn into an infestation very quickly, especially if temperatures are allowed to rise. Once they mature and start to spin webs, they can be very destructive. There are environmentally friendly ways to get rid of mites, such as neem and other plant-based oils that will kill on contact (but not the eggs - they need a follow-up spray) and will not affect your buds. Something to think about.
 

Porky101

Well-Known Member
Day 39.

Added some calmag to main feed. To add a bit of CA. I'm out of CA edta.

I hope the buds don't get affected, the dying leaves are worrying.

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PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Prawn is correct, with all that plant matter in the room currently (rh) the mites will overrun it. I would leaf strip, heavily and apply some horti oils ( rosemary/mint/etc), neem is slightly systemic(short half life) if u test?== will only slow them down, not eradicate. Also, Some of the def looking issues could be pest related.....personally think its too early to let it play out till the end, I would get aggressive

You will lose yields, but its about saving the crop at this point. Sulfur burn/ bomb the area before your next run IMO...

Good luck grower
 
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Porky101

Well-Known Member
Prawn is correct, with all that plant matter in the room currently (rh) the mites will overrun it. I would leaf strip, heavily and apply some horti oils ( rosemary/mint/etc), neem is slightly systemic(short half life) if u test?== will only slow them down, not eradicate. Also, Some of the def looking issues could be pest related.....personally think its too early to let it play out till the end, I would get aggressive

You will lose yields, but its about saving the crop at this point. Sulfur burn/ bomb the area before your next run IMO...

Good luck grower

If what you say were true, that would have happened in week 1,2,3,4 and now.

So far, I have had mites with no issues. Yes they are on a few leaves, but thats it. They are not proliferating and going out of control. Perhaps I have a species that is not that aggresive, who knows. Either way, for now I am deciding not to react to them. I will keep a very close eye on them, I have been. I always am. I hate spider mites.

Any leaves with PM I prune as soon as I spot them. My RH is about 60%. I struggle to get it much lower.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Yes you're right.

I think all I can do for now is finish the grow best I can.

Next grow I will treat them heavily before flowering to make sure there are no insects and I will fumigate the room.
Plant mass, canopy wasn't as large in the early weeks as it is now, mite populations can explode in days with plenty of leaf matter....

Obviously, it's your grow and your call. I would think about at least doing a defoliation, will drop the RH & some of the food source....it won't hurt your yields like an untreated pest/fungal issue. The later you wait on the essential oil(s) foliar app. the higher the chance you will taste it on the final product.

Good luck
 
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Porky101

Well-Known Member
Plant mass, canopy wasn't as large in the early weeks as it is now, mite populations can explode in days with plenty of leaf matter....

Obviously, it's your grow and your call. I would think about at least doing a defoliation, will drop the RH & some of the food source....it won't hurt your yields like an untreated pest/fungal issue. The later you wait on the essential oil(s) foliar app. the higher the chance you will taste it on the final product.

Good luck

Thanks for your advice dude! .

I am going to do a big defoliation for the final two weeks.

Will post updates as they happen!

Peace out!
 

Porky101

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone! Day 40.

Final stretch!

I am going to raise the lights and half the food for the last two and a half weeks. If anyone here thinks I should leave full food and full light let me know If I'm making any mistakes!

Been defoloating all day.

Some pics below.




20190811_124028.jpg 20190811_101952.jpg
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
You been right to begin with ....waaaay too late to be spraying crap on your ladies. A few dead mites are WAY better then neem oil. Stripping the leaves off is not going to help with mites and there is no such thing as non-agressive mites. they dislike cold, water and wind but can survive just fine. Nothing you can do for the current setup , everything will be fine. Now for the PM , im an ol guy so thats outta my league (pm cant grow in a dry , windy enviroment. ) You said you were having troubles getting under 60% . its time for a dehumidifier. (my hps and the heat that went with it is too much for any mold.) You said you got the canopy moving , keep it moving as best as you can , pick up anything wet off the floor ect... open the tent for a few hours a day...whatever you can do to keep rh down and other then that your doing pretty damn good. I love your style of "leave me alone im growing" . Sometimes you HAVE to be that agressive with um to keep um alive. This grow shit is turning pansy. If you just rip it all down , then the whole deal was a waste. If you keep what you got going then at least it will be decent vs perfect.
(picking leaves everyday WILL lower the yield , try to do your defol a couple weeks apart, taking the least amount as possible. I pick them in veg everyday IF i want them to not grow so fast...i put it in the catagory of lst )
 

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
also fighting with the hunidity for the last days, guess your room condiditions had been quite different before.
Defoil and consider a dehumidifier, not that you also will get some mold in the last weeks.
Wont start the defoil debate, think it give good results, at least you will get a more even ripening and in this case no other choice.
 

Porky101

Well-Known Member
also fighting with the hunidity for the last days, guess your room condiditions had been quite different before.
Defoil and consider a dehumidifier, not that you also will get some mold in the last weeks.
Wont start the defoil debate, think it give good results, at least you will get a more even ripening and in this case no other choice.

I have dehumidifiers. Not enough though :/
 

Porky101

Well-Known Member
Day 41

Calcium deficiency has reduced its rate of progression it seems.

Everything looking good.

Pics below

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Porky101

Well-Known Member
Day 42.
Harvest target day 56.
14 days to go!

The leaves seem to still be deteriorating.

Have increased the feed to an ec of 1.2 for now. I will halve it in the next few days.

I have reduced the par to 400 while they ripen up.

Have reduced temps to 79f.

I think for the next two weeks I'm going to just try and keep the plants happy. I don't want the buds to start getting affected.


Any feedback would be much appreciated.

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Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
EC 1.2 seems pretty low to me if that's what you normally feed them. Are you in coco? I run 2.2-2.6 in my drain-to-waste, and I run extra Cal-Mag under LED to compensate for the reduced transpiration. The calcium damage won't clear up, as it's an immobile element. It's the new growth you have to watch.
 

Porky101

Well-Known Member
EC 1.2 seems pretty low to me if that's what you normally feed them. Are you in coco? I run 2.2-2.6 in my drain-to-waste, and I run extra Cal-Mag under LED to compensate for the reduced transpiration. The calcium damage won't clear up, as it's an immobile element. It's the new growth you have to watch.

In week 3 flower I raised the feed to Ec2. 0 and I got the calcium deficiency on the top leaves. I'm in perlite DTW.

I then pulled back to 1.0EC and the calcium deficiency slowed down but not stopped.

I see much less deficiencies on any of the lower flowers, mainly the top bud leafs were affected which are the best ones.

I don't want to feed more than 1.4 as it seems I get burn. But that was week 3.

If they were actually hungry, surely I would see other deficiencys. It seems like this calcium deficiency is the only deficiency. I believe my Ec of 1.2 is fine and next run I'll add some calcium edta. That's it.

My nutrient formula I'm using, has ca as the largest percentage compared to all the other minerals in the formula (more CA than k) . It seems that in flower, the plant consumes CA more than any other fertiliser even exceeding k. I am starting to think that growing under led the limiting factor is my nutrient formula gets its ca from calcium nitrate. Nitrates should not be used in flower. Too much delays flowering. It's a problem. So I'll switch to CA edta next run.

That's how I'm feeling, I may be wrong...
 
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Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
The mites are clearly a factor - at least some of that "deficiency" is necrotic spotting of areas where mites have been feeding. But there are likely other things going on, as your plant will be channeling energy into its immune system to fight the mites, which could also be causing part of the deficiency. Your situation is a little bit different to an otherwise healthy plant.

The one advantage you have is drain to waste - it should flush out excess nutrient as it waters, preventing a build-up of unused potassium salts that could cause a calcium nutrient lockout.

How often does your system water? What is your pH? You may want to increase the watering cycle if you can, to help with the flush and availability of fresh nutrient. A higher pH of around 5.8 - as well as letting your pH "drift" in the nutrient tank (naturally rising over a few days from, say, pH 5.8 to 6.3) - will make Ca more available.

Cold temperatures and growing under LED can cause Ca deficiencies - I've just been through this myself. LED light does not produce IR heat, but it does provide lots of light energy for growth. That extra light creates extra nutrient demands, but the lack of infrared heat means your plants do not transpire as much. This means elements that rely on transpiration for plant uptake - notably calcium and magnesium - can become deficient, even when you think there is enough Ca-Mg in your nutrient solution. This can be exacerbated in cold weather, or when humidity is high - as in your case.

High humidity slows transpiration, which can also lead to a Ca deficiency.

I got the quadrella recently: growing under LED, in coco, in cold weather with high humidity, I started to notice a Ca deficiency where previously I had not had any issues. The fix was a foliar spray of 20ml/litre of Cal-Mag, as well as a higher dose of Cal-Mag in my nutrient solution.

Try the foliar spray. It has two advantages.

Firstly, mites hate it - you can knock many of the mites off your plants by misting them, and then spray eco oil, neem or potassium soap around the base of your plants, pots and floor to kill the mites that fall off. Regular misting will help keep mites at bay. This is more effective than defoliating, IMO, because you are not removing leaves which are an important source of stored energy for the plant.

Secondly, foliar sprays act faster than root applications. Ca is a mostly immobile element. It relies mostly on transpiration (evaporation at the leaf surface) to get into the plant, and once it is used to build cells it becomes "locked" into the plant. The rust spots you are seeing in the upper leaves is calcium being broken down in the leaf in an effort by the plant to move it to new growth, where it is vital for new cell development. This is why calcium is mostly immobile or "semi-mobile" - it cannot be moved efficiently around the plant, and only small amounts can be relocated from nearby areas.

Ca deficiency will affect root function, so foliar spraying will provide Ca where it is needed and can be absorbed readily by the plant. My preference would be for a Cal-Mag supplemental spray including Mg and Fe, as usually where there is a lack of Ca, there will be a lack of the other two.

The only caveat is if you are already feeding lots of epsom salts or another source of magnesium that may be locking out your calcium. It is mostly unlikely but still possible. You generally want a ratio of 2:1 - 3:1 of Ca:Mg, and a ratio of 2:1 K:Ca. If you have a lot of salt (NaCl) in your water, this will lock out Ca. If you are using RO water instead of tap water - which naturally has calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate in it (depending on your water source) - then you may see a Ca deficiency, as many bottled nutrients are designed for tap water and take into account the calcium carbonate already present.

It is important to know that the damaged leaves will not recover, and that the new growth will take some time to show improvement - especially late in flowering. Hit them with the foliar spray three times in a week and see how you go. But also bear in mind this could also add to humidity.

Finally, the foliar spray may lead to an increase in powdery mildew, but it won't if you have a good fan blowing on the leaves to dry them after each application. You can also adjust the pH of your foliar up to pH8 or so to combat the mold, as higher pH can prevent its growth. Epsom salts can also help, as it naturally raises pH and also has sulfur in it that prevents mold spores from germinating.
 

Porky101

Well-Known Member
The mites are clearly a factor - at least some of that "deficiency" is necrotic spotting of areas where mites have been feeding. But there are likely other things going on, as your plant will be channeling energy into its immune system to fight the mites, which could also be causing part of the deficiency. Your situation is a little bit different to an otherwise healthy plant.

The one advantage you have is drain to waste - it should flush out excess nutrient as it waters, preventing a build-up of unused potassium salts that could cause a calcium nutrient lockout.

How often does your system water? What is your pH? You may want to increase the watering cycle if you can, to help with the flush and availability of fresh nutrient. A higher pH of around 5.8 - as well as letting your pH "drift" in the nutrient tank (naturally rising over a few days from, say, pH 5.8 to 6.3) - will make Ca more available.

Cold temperatures and growing under LED can cause Ca deficiencies - I've just been through this myself. LED light does not produce IR heat, but it does provide lots of light energy for growth. That extra light creates extra nutrient demands, but the lack of infrared heat means your plants do not transpire as much. This means elements that rely on transpiration for plant uptake - notably calcium and magnesium - can become deficient, even when you think there is enough Ca-Mg in your nutrient solution. This can be exacerbated in cold weather, or when humidity is high - as in your case.

High humidity slows transpiration, which can also lead to a Ca deficiency.

I got the quadrella recently: growing under LED, in coco, in cold weather with high humidity, I started to notice a Ca deficiency where previously I had not had any issues. The fix was a foliar spray of 20ml/litre of Cal-Mag, as well as a higher dose of Cal-Mag in my nutrient solution.

Try the foliar spray. It has two advantages.

Firstly, mites hate it - you can knock many of the mites off your plants by misting them, and then spray eco oil, neem or potassium soap around the base of your plants, pots and floor to kill the mites that fall off. Regular misting will help keep mites at bay. This is more effective than defoliating, IMO, because you are not removing leaves which are an important source of stored energy for the plant.

Secondly, foliar sprays act faster than root applications. Ca is a mostly immobile element. It relies mostly on transpiration (evaporation at the leaf surface) to get into the plant, and once it is used to build cells it becomes "locked" into the plant. The rust spots you are seeing in the upper leaves is calcium being broken down in the leaf in an effort by the plant to move it to new growth, where it is vital for new cell development. This is why calcium is mostly immobile or "semi-mobile" - it cannot be moved efficiently around the plant, and only small amounts can be relocated from nearby areas.

Ca deficiency will affect root function, so foliar spraying will provide Ca where it is needed and can be absorbed readily by the plant. My preference would be for a Cal-Mag supplemental spray including Mg and Fe, as usually where there is a lack of Ca, there will be a lack of the other two.

The only caveat is if you are already feeding lots of epsom salts or another source of magnesium that may be locking out your calcium. It is mostly unlikely but still possible. You generally want a ratio of 2:1 - 3:1 of Ca:Mg, and a ratio of 2:1 K:Ca. If you have a lot of salt (NaCl) in your water, this will lock out Ca. If you are using RO water instead of tap water - which naturally has calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate in it (depending on your water source) - then you may see a Ca deficiency, as many bottled nutrients are designed for tap water and take into account the calcium carbonate already present.

It is important to know that the damaged leaves will not recover, and that the new growth will take some time to show improvement - especially late in flowering. Hit them with the foliar spray three times in a week and see how you go. But also bear in mind this could also add to humidity.

Finally, the foliar spray may lead to an increase in powdery mildew, but it won't if you have a good fan blowing on the leaves to dry them after each application. You can also adjust the pH of your foliar up to pH8 or so to combat the mold, as higher pH can prevent its growth. Epsom salts can also help, as it naturally raises pH and also has sulfur in it that prevents mold spores from germinating.

Thanks for the info dude. You know your shit! Thank you!



I will do a calmag spray.


I don't seem to beable to find any mites. I am looking under the leaves... I think they disappeared?


Despite the problems, how the flowers looking? Will my yield be hit? Quality seems very good buds nice and dense.

Pics below!


20190815_120524.jpg 20190815_120528.jpg 20190815_121148.jpg
20190815_122111.jpg
 
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Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
They're hard to see. Wherever you have pin-prick spots on your leaves, you will usually find mites underneath. They avoid strong light - so you usually won't see them on the leaf surface during lights-on - but you can often find them hiding in the veins of the leaves underneath. You may need a loop to spot them. They don't normally move.
 
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