Disorderly Light Theory

So the laws of thermodynamics state basically that in order for a system to become more ordered relative to the universe it must give off heat. Entropy and enthalpy, respectively.

All lights give off SOME heat. All electronics, really.

So what if we could design a light that when electricity was applied it became less ordered in its excited state than in its ground state by utilizing computers to engineer a special alloy.

You'd have a light that was essentially 100% efficient. You'd still get some heat from the light that wasn't absorbed by the plants and what not.


It might be easier to use a heat pump to generate electricity. That way you have a few conventional lights which generate light and heat and then the heat pump absorbs the heat and somehow turns it into light.

No more A/C and more light from your waste product (heat).

I imagine this would ideally be done with some kind of combination heat pump utilizing bacteria genetically modified to use up oxygen and produce CO2/electricity.

Then room size/# of plants and lights/light intensity would be modified to give as close a perpetual sustaining system as the rest of the laws of the universe shall allow.

I'd like to sample some of what ever you've got in your pipe good sir. It must surely be some dank.

Heat pumps need electricity to run
Bacteria is not very good at producing electricity.
Using electricity in the grow room raises the amount of heat energy in the room proportionately to the amount of energy the device consumes. It does not matter what the device is or how efficient it is.

Still need the AC. However there are definitely ways of making use of 'waste' heat, just not for generating power.

yummy the Carnot cycle....

bongdudebrah

bicit said:

I'd like to sample some of what ever you've got in your pipe good sir. It must surely be some dank.

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There's an alloy of antimony and gallium nitride that can be used to separate water into it's substituents with merely the power of the sun. I'm just saying, there's got to be a way to fight the thermal death of the universe/multiverse.

If it can't be done with an alloy then perhaps with dark matter. Black holes should be screaming with heat but they don't which I believe is due to the fact that dark matter around it forces the matter together so then itself can have greater entropy.

Off the top of my head I believe lights all work by hurling electrons at a metal and the striking force releases photons. If one could come up with a way to use a dark matter/anti matter or an alloy that would allow the excited state to have more entropy lit than not it would create a light that emits no waste heat and simultaneously save the universe.

Kind of like a nuclear chain reaction but we need not perpetually split nuclei if we can knock out enough electrons to provide a light source with minimal electricity to keep it going.

Heat pumps do need electricity to run but if there's enough waste heat I'm sure it could be utilized in some form or fashion to "turn a wheel" just as all electricity is made and in turn cool down the grow room.

I don't believe the carnot cycle to be merely a theoretical construct no more than I believe that the Panama canal could not be done by Spain merely because if god had wanted one there he'd of built it. We just need to expand our knowledge.

Bacteria could probably be genetically modified to be more efficient at producing electricity they just need some eel DNA.

Of course some electricity and what not needs to be used and A/C because at the end of the day you're producing a plant and that is potential energy which can not be created or destroyed therefore you must replace that which is displaced by the plant.

Unless you eat the trim and smoke the herb giving you the energy to pedal a bike which will provide said electricity..heh heh

@bicit said it. Pass that shit over!

I agree with everything he said, except the part about not being able to generate electricity from waste heat... even if it wouldn't be much, lol

The above said, I'll agree that much can be done to slow the ever more profligate waste of energy and natural resources.

For instance, I believe we're at the beginning and not the end of finding useful and practical ways to improve efficiency and productivity in our indoor gardens and my current career and projects are bearing this out.

ttystikk said:

@bicit said it. Pass that shit over!

I agree with everything he said, except the part about not being able to generate electricity from waste heat... even if it wouldn't be much, lol

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I did stumble across someone who built a self regulating CPU cooling fan using a TEG. I don't know how effective it would be for cobs though.

bicit said:

I did stumble across someone who built a self regulating CPU cooling fan using a TEG. I don't know how effective it would be for cobs though.

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There's that circuit diagram, and at least one guy here on RIU claims to have built one into his light.

ttystikk said:

The above said, I'll agree that much can be done to slow the ever more profligate waste of energy and natural resources.

For instance, I believe we're at the beginning and not the end of finding useful and practical ways to improve efficiency and productivity in our indoor gardens and my current career and projects are bearing this out.

Click to expand...

ending cannabis prohibition will do way more than any future efficiency gains in led technology.

PurpleBuz said:

ending cannabis prohibition will do way more than any future efficiency gains in led technology.

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The technologies the indoor growing movement spawned and mentored will be used from now on to grow food, medicine and ornamental varieties. Therefore, doing it more efficiently will save power from now on.

I agree that ending cannabis prohibition and over regulation completely will reduce the number of grow warehouses, but only for awhile. We'll still need to eat and we've been poisoning or paving over perfectly good farmland for centuries now.

What do you use your waste heat for ttystikk?

FWIW, I was also imagining some ideas to create COB A/C hoods for when they come down in price.

Basically a big rectangular piece of duct work 2'x2'x6" made into a box with a couple (ok maybe 4 or 5) aluminum heat sinks that go through the bottom just enough to attach a cob but the majority of the aluminum including fins are within the duct. Then use a 6" collar starter on two sides to allow a fan to pull air past the heat sinks via flex hose. It's like a HPS but bigger. The top of the box and top half of the sides could be insulated with like 1/2" XPS to retain as much heat within the box without getting in the way of the air flow past the heat sinks. You could insulate the top and most of the sides from the outside but you'd have to be careful moving the light around as XPS will dent/chip/break.

Just include some Arduino temp sensors that regulate fan speed based on temperature of the air and kill some/all lights in the event temps get too high (i.e. fan burned out). Each box could have a 15' power cord and 15' connector for an arduino or rasberry pi or whatever based controller. If you REALLY wanted to get jiggy with it you could add a lumen sensor calibrated to the particular COB to adjust how hard you want to push the COBS to get to desired PAR in the canopy.

I'm not sure how many cobs = an HPS but the size could be scaled up or down easily.

ShirkGoldbrick said:

What do you use your waste heat for ttystikk?

FWIW, I was also imagining some ideas to create COB A/C hoods for when they come down in price.

Basically a big rectangular piece of duct work 2'x2'x6" made into a box with a couple (ok maybe 4 or 5) aluminum heat sinks that go through the bottom just enough to attach a cob but the majority of the aluminum including fins are within the duct. Then use a 6" collar starter on two sides to allow a fan to pull air past the heat sinks via flex hose. It's like a HPS but bigger. The top of the box and top half of the sides could be insulated with like 1/2" XPS to retain as much heat within the box without getting in the way of the air flow past the heat sinks. You could insulate the top and most of the sides from the outside but you'd have to be careful moving the light around as XPS will dent/chip/break.

Just include some Arduino temp sensors that regulate fan speed based on temperature of the air and kill some/all lights in the event temps get too high (i.e. fan burned out). Each box could have a 15' power cord and 15' connector for an arduino or rasberry pi or whatever based controller. If you REALLY wanted to get jiggy with it you could add a lumen sensor calibrated to the particular COB to adjust how hard you want to push the COBS to get to desired PAR in the canopy.

I'm not sure how many cobs = an HPS but the size could be scaled up or down easily.

Click to expand...

Currently, I use my waste heat for heating my home. When my chiller with hot gas recovery arrives, the waste heat will be put into its own water circuit which will make it much easier to use. At that point, I'll be using it for;

1. Home heating (cold side will cool the house in summer, too! )
2. Domestic hot water
3. Dehumidification in my grow room
4. Garage heat
5. Patio heat
6. Hot tub maintenance heat
7. Thaw circuit for driveway when I repour it
8. Other uses TBD