didn't the constitution come first?

I just finished reading the DEA file about Cannabis clubs and Zoning in California. According to the Feds, as we know, Marijuana is banned in the United states of America under the Comprehensive drug abuse prevention and control act of 1970 and the US Code 21812 (sec) III(a). THerefore, the Feds claim that it is illegal for a city or a State to allow cannabis clubs to open and operate, and due to full disclosure laws, a compassonate care facility must tell the landlord what they are doing. The landlords, then, can be arrested under federal charges just for allowing such an establishment on their property.

Now here's the thing that gets me. In 1996, the people of California voted on Prop 215, and in a 56% majority, Californians said "yes, sick people should have marijuana to help their pain and suffering."
Then on September 11th, 2003, the California State Senate voted for and passed Bill 420, giving the State's okay to get the ball rolling on medical marijuana. Since then California, and every other state that has tried to pass such a bill, (except Hawaii...it seems like no body messes with them on this stuff) has been a clusterfuck of nonsense and people going to jail. The laws involving dispensaries has caused a year hold on any new dispensary licences being issued (till July 31, 2008 or until they come to an agreement).
I mean, with all this craziness I could go on, but I stumbled across this old, "outdated" document that gives some insight. It's called the United States Constitution, and there's this cute little footnote called the tenth amendment that makes me wonder what the Fed's argument is.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people."
Short and sweet. States and the people in those States do not need the okay from the Federal Government to do ANYTHING (within reason). See, the problem was that about 150 years ago, States started arguing over atonomy and what's known as the "articles of Confederation". See, these states down south started arguing about Northern infultration of their State's rights and laws.
Yeah, I know one of those laws was slavery, which is why people generally don't defend the South on that one too much, but nonetheless, the Civil War was fought over this idea that we have these States that are united but stand alone under the voice of the State's people. Keep in mind, most political struggles are fought by people with the money to do so. The Union army wanted to have federal control throughout the entire nation, and some people didn't go for that. I don't. If a State says that it's people are allowed to do something, the are allowed, end of story, end of federal meddling.

Look, I know who's in the White House, and I know all about his 'write a bill today, break it tomorrow' policy, but c'mon, this is America, dammit, and we fucking rule. If our Consitution claims that a state has a right to legislate something that does not have any medical evidence of serious risk to it, and both the popular vote and the Senate vote agree, then get the fuck outta my weeds, Bush!
I mean, we all pretty much know that Marijuana is a victim in a political power struggle. 1937...William Randolf Hearst and his timber holdings...racist profiling and the marijuana tax bill leveed against Mexican immigrant workers in the late 19th century...I don't need to say these things to you folks. I just don't understand why the argument even exists anymore, and what is this "leg" the Feds still think that they are still standing on? My Grandfater died in WWII fighting to keep those yellowed pages of the Consitution going. I know it might sound queer or goofy to some, but I love my country, and I hate to see the fingers of our nation choking itself and it's orginal ideas to death.
Legalize it!

I forgot to mention something. There is a FDA law about not being able to patent a natural thing, like a plant. If a drug company wants to see a profit and control over a particular drug, it must be at least a percentage manmade.
There is a synthetic THC called Marinol, and it is owned by a pharmacy company called Libby Pharmacuticals.

Do you know who owns controlling interest in Libby? The Bush Family. Tell me those jerks care about us at all, and i'll laugh in your face. Marinol also cost a hell of a lot more than an eight, I can assure you.

Hey man...sort of agree with you on this, and i can't argue with your point on the constitution. however, with the Civil War, i think you overlooked a point or two--the problem was that the "people" did not decide that slavery was okay. Who asked the millions of people forced to live their lives in poverty and servitude (who, incidentally, outnumbered the free white people in some states)? but anyways, that's neither here nor there, and has been settled. let's not kick around a dead horse.

but i'm not sure how much i agree with you on the point about legalizing marijuana. don't get me wrong, if they did, i wouldn't object. however, i also think it's a good idea to keep it illegal. there are a lot of people (some even in my area) who make their living off of the stuff, and wouldn't know how to run a legit business if they tried. nor would they try. if it were legalized, they would be put out of work. now call me pessimisstic, or whatever you like, but if they went out and found a real job after that, then i'm Abe Lincoln. cause they would just switch to something that actually is harmful, and begin dealing htat (say, cocaine, or heroin just for starters). this keeps it on a low profile (at least around here), but you can still get it if you want it. and the cops don't really care, if they catch you, they just take it and say, "don't do that again. you've been warned." so...it's not really a big thing. and it shouldn't be. ...i fuckin hate the way government works...

When you are right, you are right.
The problems with laws is that they are rarely ever decided by "the People", they are decided by two types of people, people with money, or people with the time to pay attention and vote.
As for the Slavery thing, I mean, I never, ever meant to infer that I thought it was an okay thing, and in reality, the situation, at least in a polical climate-of-the-day kind of thing, is very similar to prohibition IN THAT (and only this) people DID vote against slavery, people DID protest it; it was one of those things on the books that we as people often allow to let happen because we don't see it coming or we are not people with money or time to fight.
Anyhow, you are right...hands down on that, although if you ever want to argue History, I'm always up for some friendly discussions.

I think that Legalization comes down to a sense of personal responsiblity. I really, really agree that the little guy making his rent selling dime bags is a completely Ethical thing, as long as he's honest. As long as he or she is doing what they need and not hurting anybody. The problem comes down to day to day, though. You do something to me, I can call a cop or get a lawyer. You do something to me, and we are both criminals in the eyes of the law, we have to deal with it between ourselves. In a perfect world, that means we duke it out and the best man wins kind of shit. However, people aren't nice everywhere you go, and you must admit, for every 'good kid' who sells grass so he can have some folding money, there is a ruthless asshole drug dealer that would yank an invalid out of bed to get the $12 they owe him.
And the thing is, Officer Smith has to make it look like he's doing his job. Let's say You are Officer Smith. Your choice to make your quota is, Bust open a meth lab full of full grown, armed men, or bust the kid selling dime bags at the far end of the park.
The choice to me, I'm sorry to say, would be clear. Perhaps others are nobler than I. Then, this kid, can't get a Pell grant to start college, he's got fees to pay, perhaps time to serve, and everything changes.

It's just that with a Law, you can avoid the brut skirmishes, because our government is the absolute force that says what you do. If you want to break a law that you are convicted of, and you try to walk away, they will kill you. And if you manage to get away, they will be looking for you, 24 hours a day.
Like I said, I don't think drugs should be completely legal...but I think that drugs ARE a problem in general, with HIV and all that other nasty stuff, but if you regulate them, make them legal, that opens a whole new market. Plus, you actually have force on your side when T-bone the crank dealer wants your buisness out of his neighborhood.
That's all I'm saying.

word to that my friend. word to that.


that problem, as i see it, is just that the US is just way too big a country to be adequately controlled by one government. (you may say this is why we have states, and yes this is true. but the feds are still the big dogs on campus, and have the power if they want to. consitution or no, there always seem to be loopholes...and money can work wonders in today's world.) to me, it seems that it would work better if people stopped trying to have this illusion of control in their government and just live life naturally. granted, this would never work after all that our society has been through. but it just seems like it should work, and would work, if people weren't assholes. don't get me wrong, the vote is very powerful, but with so many people in the country it can become diluted.

i geuss what we're wating on is some sort of flood (in a manner of speaking), although god did say She'd never do that again. ...perhaps mankind nuking the fuck out of each other isn't an act of god, so that'll fly? i dunno... can't really say for sure, but i'd say mankind needs a new start, and this time with a wider world view.

As Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver once said, "All the animals come out at night - whores, skunk pussies, buggers, queens, fairies, dopers, junkies, sick, venal. Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets."
I agree with you that we really shouldn't expect the world to solve our problems. I think that with anything in life comes the risks, complete with rewards and punishments, and that ultimately your choices are yours, and they are all half chance. I manage to live like an anarchist who pays taxes, just to keep the goons off my back. Fine, they fix the sewers when they break.
I wish there was a way that people could see themselves blaming everyone for everything. Don't get me wrong, I really love People, it's just hard sometimes watching them, like a gourmet watching someone drowned fresh grilled tilapia in ketchup...it just hurts. People get beat up, raped, discriminated against, and shit on every day; it is what we do with what happens that defines us. Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'm Better or Worse than anybody...it's just what i see, the way I see it.
Peace, friend.

yeah dude, i know what you mean. it's kinda like a "wow, you need to wake up and smell the real world mate." the problem is that we're all learning from a young age that "it's not your fault", that you can always blame someone else for it. and that's not good. personally, i dind't grow up like that (cause my brother beat the crap out of me when i was being a little bitch...which i'm kinda glad about, cause every kid needs good direction and pain is a universally understood concept), but other kids i know have. and it's just sort of sad, cause they're going to be the ones running the country, blaming shit on other people, and keeping their own slate clean...
Peace Brother

Here's the catch. In My Humble Opinion the best way to live is a "live and let live" stance. Don't force your values on others, and see the world as a hopeful place.
The problem is that having a value system that values NOT pushing your ideas kinda leaves you out in the cold. All the loudmouthed nuts out there are telling people they have to believe a certain way or Doom and Gloom will follow. Something bad happens, and it is because you are morally deficient, or pray to the wrong god or whatever.
That, and how we said, people don't want to take the blame. My old boss loved me because every time I fucked up, I said, "yeah, that was me" even if I could blame someone else. Then the flip side of that is that if something did go wrong and no one fessed up, I just fixed it instead of standing around waiting for the guilty to come forward.
However, when you say that these people will be running our country, I'm not really sure it will be as bad as you think. Old money is dying out, and these kids, raised by The Wealthy, are a bunch of snivelling dorks. Paris Hilton, perfect example. That and those kids that get beat up so their parents take them out of class and home school them. No matter how much money, a person like that isn't going to be in charge for long.
Currently, our world is run by a code of conduct based on early 20th century ideals. Manifest Destiny and the spreading of the Word of Jesus. Rugged Individualism is okay, as long as it falls into a moralistic construct of the virutous man.
I don't think that this ideology will vanish any time in our lifetimes, but two things are going to happen. First, the Baby Boomers (and their belief system) are going to start retiring and dying, which will seriously effect the face of our government. And secondly, given the current state of our economy, things are going to start to fall apart and values, for economic reasons, are going to have to change. Our President is bankrupting us, and unlike the America of the 20th century, we don't manufature much at all. If we have nothing to sell and have spent our money on alienating wars abroad, we simply won't be in a position to throw money around. The billions of dollars on destroying the drug trade would be much better spent on education that was funded by taxes on said drugs. Legalization is tricky, and full legalization would never happen in this country without some cataclysmic disaster to the government. Old folks shake their heads at the idea of something like legalization or gay marriage, but economically, we are going to have to start allowing people to run their own lives, in exchange for a switch in policy. People should be free to do whatever they want to themselves, but also should be held accountable for treading on others...and more and more people are agreeing with this idea. Gay couples can adopt the unwanted pregnancies, marijuana tax dollars can fund drug prevention education, and the taxes we pay can enter into a moving cash fund to help us save for a retirement that a stagnate, take it from the kids and give it to grandpa stance. The laws are going to have to change, and these homeschooled rich kids aren't going to be able to stand up to the increasingly angry population of our country. It will either be the Liberatarians or the Crazy Militatants who run will be running the world outside of our rest homes. I hope it's the Libreratrians, as long as that LaRouche guy isn't with them.
Sorry for rambling...truth be told, I really don't know what's gonna happen.

A lot of good points here. But what I want to add is this, as it is written the citizens do have a say in the government, its just sometimes hard to make the right people listen.

I want to back up a little bit. Remember prohibition? What ever the reason is that the government repealed this law and made it legal again to sell, it is now legal again. It also provides us the ability to make our own brew for personal use as well.

So if MJ was legalized I am certain the naysayers will say that every home in the US would be growing pot. I seriously doubt that. Just because I can grow it does not mean I will, especially when I can run down to the corner fast food mart and pick me up some. I could make my own beer if I wanted to, but I choose not to, its just easier to just go buy it. The same would happen with people growing weed. If it were readilly available, alot of people would just go buy it, and of all the people growing now I would be willing to bet that a big majority would stop. Some people just grow because they "have to", if it were legal they would stop. To some people its more effort than they want to spend on it if they could run around the corner to legally pick some up. The government would still make money off of it. I only know one person that brews their own beer, and even when he has a party, there is still a need to buy some simply because his output is not all that big.

Now, what I would like to see is a federal petition started. That is the only way we would be heard. However, getting people to stand up and sign it is a different story with all the bad press that weed gets and how "bad" it is. I believe that if there is a lawyer or some other political figure here that could draft up a petition stating facts that weed is not as bad as it is made out to be and give examples of how this could be a win-win situation for everyone, or even draft up a mock bill stating the terms of the legislation. I seem to think that for the most part, the government could make more money off of the legal sales of it than what they get in arresting people and flying helicopters around looking for it.

I am curious as to the population of people in the US that regularly smoke. I am sure it is a very high number, but getting people with high paying jobs to admit it or even sign a petition is a total different story.

I feel as if there was a petition to legalize it, and I am not talking on a state by state basis, hell lets go all the way to the top. Getting the feds to legalize it is the hard part, if they legalize it, then getting the states to legalize it should be much easier. Except for maybe commonwealth states such as where I live. But it would be a start.

According to Ed Rosenthahl, about 20 million americans are regular pot smokers, where an estemated 500 million have at least tried Cannabis at least once in their lives.

As for your point about prohibition, you are absolutely right...If rape became legal, I wouldn't rape anyone because that's just fucked up. Legality isn't what defines my actions at all because I am a moral person. Our Government gets its power by convincing people that we are not smart enough to run our own lives and make our own mistakes, we need them, and due to actions like the welfare system and protecting US from nuts who hate THEM...we let it go. I mean, I believe firmly in laws...we need them. It's just that the political game involved with the prohibition of marijuana puts the government into a "tooth fairy" position...if you treat the world like your children and you lie to them "for their own good", you can't rightly just turn around and say, "yeah, all that stuff, it wasn't true," because then your unfalable stance as Big Momma in the eyes of the world crumbles. Suddenly we wake up and realize that we're hated by half the world and all the money we pay in taxes is going to someone else.
People are ultimately good in my opinion. If you legalized something, people might try it, but that doesn't mean a lifetime of drugged haze from that day forward, with doctors eating babies and school teachers having orgies in the classroom.
I mean, C'mon...how could people believe this stuff? It's just that the ones who want to silence the marijuana voice use the arguement that a drug is a drug...you want cancer patients to have access to Weed, that means a broad sweeping free for all is the nexst unavoidable step. They say "legalize drugs" like we want heroin flavored popcicles in every cafeteria.
On the flip side, the whole Industrial Hemp arguement is not a justification for Cannabis cafe franchises either. We need to be clearer, but as for me, I'm usually too stoned to be eloquent.

UncleSunny said:

According to Ed Rosenthahl, about 20 million americans are regular pot smokers, where an estemated 500 million have at least tried Cannabis at least once in their lives.

As for your point about prohibition, you are absolutely right...If rape became legal, I wouldn't rape anyone because that's just fucked up. Legality isn't what defines my actions at all because I am a moral person. Our Government gets its power by convincing people that we are not smart enough to run our own lives and make our own mistakes, we need them, and due to actions like the welfare system and protecting US from nuts who hate THEM...we let it go. I mean, I believe firmly in laws...we need them. It's just that the political game involved with the prohibition of marijuana puts the government into a "tooth fairy" position...if you treat the world like your children and you lie to them "for their own good", you can't rightly just turn around and say, "yeah, all that stuff, it wasn't true," because then your unfalable stance as Big Momma in the eyes of the world crumbles. Suddenly we wake up and realize that we're hated by half the world and all the money we pay in taxes is going to someone else.
People are ultimately good in my opinion. If you legalized something, people might try it, but that doesn't mean a lifetime of drugged haze from that day forward, with doctors eating babies and school teachers having orgies in the classroom.
I mean, C'mon...how could people believe this stuff? It's just that the ones who want to silence the marijuana voice use the arguement that a drug is a drug...you want cancer patients to have access to Weed, that means a broad sweeping free for all is the nexst unavoidable step. They say "legalize drugs" like we want heroin flavored popcicles in every cafeteria.
On the flip side, the whole Industrial Hemp arguement is not a justification for Cannabis cafe franchises either. We need to be clearer, but as for me, I'm usually too stoned to be eloquent.

Click to expand...

20 million and the US population is around 300 million....hmmmm if everyone of the 20 million regular smokers signed it, I dont think that would be enough. But then again, I know people that dont smoke, but could care less if it was legal or not.

My wole original point was that States have rights, even in the face of a federal disapproval.
Think about this though. Remember Katrina? That whole FEMA thing? The Feds said that the reason that they couldn't help right away was that the State had to file to grant the Federal government permission, and that kind of thing takes time, limiting what they could do to help the actual people actually stuck in a giant flood of oceanic perportions.
They couldn't help until the red tape of the State of Lousiana allowed them to come save their citizens??? They can't help in a disaster because the State has to decide if they can, but they can yank a joint out of a cancer patient's hand despite a popular and a senate vote???

Well fuck me. Did you ever notice that in a real emergency, it is the common people that show their inner strenght and compassion, but it is the government that shows it's outward incompetence and apathy towards it's people?

and that 500 million was a typo, it was 50 million...sorry Ed.

Word. There are definitly a lot of pros to the legalization of weed. Although, I'm not sure you could get people to believe the real problem with it...it's not the weed itself, it's some of the people and the premeditated attitudes they have towards it. Okay, this is not true from my personal stance, but i see it every day in all the fucked, retarded high school kids in the area (okay, not all...but a lot. especially the younger ones). smoking weed becomes something to do. and since it's illegal and "bad", it sort of...well, in my opinion it jumps into the same boat as drinking. however, different point, different post, i'll get to that. (although they do coincide, they aren't exactly the same). well...fuck, how do i say this...i know what i want to say, but i'm not sure if the words will come out right, so bear w/me..

I believe that pot can be very beneficial, and there is no reason for it to be even an issue. with proper upbringing, and the right morals and ideals taught, it's a great thing. however, without the basic training that prepares you for it, it fucks you up. there, that's it, kids do it "to get fucked up". that's all they want really, they just want to be "really fucked up", and they don't care on what, as long as they can remember it to tell it in a story. and it's so aggrivating. because the point of smoking weed is not just to have something to do, it's to enhance your experience with whatever it was you were doing, or are going to do. so when people smoke expecting the experience itself to be great (which, don't get me wrong, it is. only that's not the whole picture, as a lot of these kids believe) it becomes a problem. i can't say exactly what it is right now, the specifics are eluding me, but it's there. and that, i believe, is how the government sees the effect of weed on everyone. they are ignoring the good parts.

...that's the root of the problem as i see it, and i hope that made sense...

Between alcohol and weed the two worst things I have done are:

Alcohol - took out a light pole
Weed - stopped at a four way stop sign and waited for it to turn green.

Go figure.

rkm said:

Between alcohol and weed the two worst things I have done are:

Alcohol - took out a light pole
Weed - stopped at a four way stop sign and waited for it to turn green.

Go figure.

Click to expand...

hahahahaha! you'd have to be nice and baked to wait for a stop sign to turn green. but even so, you're being careful, so it's all good

WhatAmIDoing said:

hahahahaha! you'd have to be nice and baked to wait for a stop sign to turn green. but even so, you're being careful, so it's all good

Click to expand...

Thats my entire point. I was drunk and took out a pole, I was stoned and waited for a stop sign to turn green.....Which is safer????

yeah, the constitution did come first. then bush wiped his ass with it and set it on fire.