DeSantis sucks

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — A defiant Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis refused to commit to serving a full four-year term if reelected when pressed by his Democratic rival, Charlie Crist, at their only gubernatorial debate on Monday.

Crist, a former congressman and one-term governor, accused DeSantis, a rising Republican star considered a likely 2024 presidential contender, of being too distracted by his national political ambitions to lead properly. DeSantis skirted several attempts by Crist to get him to say he’d serve a full second term.

“I know that Charlie is interested in talking about 2024 and Joe Biden, but I just want to make things very, very clear: The only worn-out old donkey I’m looking to put out to pasture is Charlie Crist,” DeSantis said of his 66-year-old opponent.

Later, Crist slapped back, “You won’t even say if you want to be the governor of Florida after this election.”

There were several heated clashes during a raucous debate that covered the COVID-19 pandemic, abortion, crime, education and President Joe Biden. The meeting came on the first day of early voting across the state; already, more than 1.1 million votes have been cast, the most in the nation.

The Florida governor’s race may not be the nation’s most competitive election this fall, but it is no less consequential for DeSantis, a 44-year-old Harvard-educated Republican who could launch a presidential bid in the coming months. He hopes to use a strong reelection victory on Nov. 8 in Florida, a state he carried by just 32,000 votes out of 8.2 million cast four years ago, to demonstrate the breadth and strength of his support.

DeSantis has benefited from demographic shifts across Florida, a perennial swing state that has shifted to the right during his first term. Former President Donald Trump carried the state by more than 3 points in 2020 and Republicans now hold a registration advantage of nearly 300,000 voters.

Monday’s debate offered voters in Florida and beyond a rare opportunity to see DeSantis under pressure. Like many leading GOP officials across the nation this fall, he has limited unscripted moments in recent months, save for periodic interviews with friendly conservative media.

The candidates faced each other, both in dark suits and purple ties, from behind wooden lecterns in Fort Pierce, Florida’s Sunrise Theater. Both men seemed to relish the hourlong fight, which was interrupted repeatedly by the rowdy audience.

DeSantis’ embrace of divisive cultural issues weighed heavily on the prime-time affair.

The Republican governor specifically defended his record to bar transgender girls from competing on public school teams intended for student athletes identified as girls at birth. He also fired back against Crist’s criticism of laws DeSantis signed limiting discussions of race and sexual orientation in schoolsand his opposition to gender transition treatments for minors.

“You think you know better than any physician or any doctor or any woman,” Crist said. “You need to lead by uniting people, not dividing them.”

Yet DeSantis has delighted his supporters over and over with his extraordinary willingness to fight — whether facing political adversaries, the federal government or powerful Florida businesses. Crist, a former Republican governor who most recently served as a Democratic congressman, has tried to cast himself as a moderate alternative to lead the perennial swing state.

DeSantis’ leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic and Hurricane Ian were also charged topics.

Crist noted that DeSantis closed businesses and schools across the state early on during the pandemic and then ignored science by opening them too soon, leading to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

“We had one of the highest death rates in America, Ron,” Crist said.

“He called for harsh shutdowns,” DeSantis responded. “It would have thrown millions of Floridians into turmoil.”

Over and over, DeSantis also sought to link Crist to Biden, whose popularity is sagging in Florida and across the nation. “Charlie Crist has voted with Joe Biden 100% of the time,” DeSantis said, referring to the “Crist-Biden agenda.”

The debate was postponed from earlier in the month because of Hurricane Ian, which left more than 100 people dead along the state’s southwest coast. Thousands of homes were destroyed and several schools remain closed across Lee County, a major Republican stronghold.

The Category 4 storm exposed flaws in the state’s fragile property insurance market, which has lost more than $1 billion in each of the last two years. Hundreds of thousands of Floridians have had their policies dropped or not renewed.

Crist accused DeSantis of failing to address the insurance crisis. DeSantis accused Crist of being away during the storm.

“He was hiding out in Puerto Rico. He wasn’t helping his community,” DeSantis jabbed.

When the discussion turned to gun violence, both candidates said they would support the death penalty for Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz, who this month was sentenced to life in prison for murdering 17 people in the 2018 massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High in Parkland.

DeSantis added that he would push the legislature to change state law requiring a unanimous jury for death sentences. That would put Florida in a distinct minority among the 27 states that still have the death penalty, where almost all require juror unanimity.

“I’m going to ask the Florida legislature to amend that statute so that one juror doesn’t have veto power over appropriate punishment,” DeSantis said.

Crist also sought to make abortion a key focus, following the playbook of Democrats across the nation in the wake of the Supreme Court’s reversal of Roe v. Wade.

In April, DeSantis signed a law banning abortions at 15 weeks of pregnancy, with no exceptions for rape or incest. When asked by the moderator, DeSantis declined to say whether he supports a complete abortion ban.

“You deserve a better governor who cares about freedom and your right to choose,” Crist said.

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Roger A. Shrubber said:

libertarians are bad, m'kay? nothing they espouse is feasible, nor would it be for the good of the people if it was...they open the door for dictators, authoritarians, and con men like trump, while eroding the social fabric.

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Roger A. Shrubber said:

libertarians are bad, m'kay? nothing they espouse is feasible, nor would it be for the good of the people if it was...they open the door for dictators, authoritarians, and con men like trump, while eroding the social fabric.

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smokin away said:

You are saying we have a working plan for society with what is supposedly a republic today? We are supposed to sit back watch everything hang by a thread instead of having a prosperous working middle class with an upwardly mobile plan for success? Rome fell because of a failed currency - what is the dollar today?

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cannabineer said:

Rome fell because of duplicate posts on social media.

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PJ Diaz said:

I heard it fell because of straw man arguments.

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smokin away said:

You are saying we have a working plan for society with what is supposedly a republic today? We are supposed to sit back watch everything hang by a thread instead of having a prosperous working middle class with an upwardly mobile plan for success? Rome fell because of a failed currency - what is the dollar today?

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Roger A. Shrubber said:

We're a federal republic.
We ARE sitting back and watching everything hang by a thread, if the republicans get into power...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/28/fact-check-do-gop-presidents-oversee-recessions-dems-recoveries/5235957002/
" While it is difficult to assess blame for the root causes, at least one recession did begin under every Republican president since Ronald Reagan compared with zero under Democratic presidents over the same period. As a "strong recovery," the Clinton administration clearly qualifies, landing in the fourth spot for growth since World War II. The Obama administration recovery is a jump ball, posting a weaker 2% average GDP, but scoring 75 months of positive job growth.

A clear ruling is difficult given the language of the original statement in saying "has overseen." If that refers to a recession starting in a president's term, then it is accurate, if it refers to simply having to deal with a recession, then it is not, because Obama had to deal with a recession — albeit inherited — during his term."

https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-presidents-us-economy-recession-democrat-presidents-save-it-2021-1

We could have a prosperous middle class, if there wasn't one political party working against that happening. The republicans want to kill the middle class...
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/04/18/fact-sheet-this-tax-day-the-president-is-fighting-to-reward-work-not-wealth-while-republicans-want-to-increase-taxes-on-the-middle-class/

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/12/01/apparently-republicans-want-to-kick-the-middle-class-in-the-face/

https://www.dpc.senate.gov/docs/fs-112-2-158.pdf

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/2/16226202/oligarchy-political-science-politician-congress-respond-citizens-public-opinion

Rome fell for a lot more reasons than failed currency, although it was a significant contributing factor. They were expansionist, always needing new resources to exploit, and had reached the limits of their own ambition.
But the dollar is strong right now...
https://www.morganstanley.com/ideas/the-strength-of-the-us-dollar-investing-risks-2022

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/1124218263/the-u-s-dollar-is-strong-right-now-but-not-everyone-is-happy-about-that

Which has it's own potential pitfalls, but it's not a failing currency, by any standard.

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smokin away said:

So basically you're saying just vote for the other guy and it will be better? I doubt the corruption, the lies and the thievery will end with a Democratic Governor in FL. I voted for medical cannabis in Florida but I'm still in pain from the inadequacy of a Government willing to comply with the patient's needs.

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If pundit-picked GOP front-runners performed as expected, former Wisconsin governor Scott Walker or former Florida governor Jeb Bush would have been the 2016 nominee. What makes for an electable governor in a red state doesn’t always make someone a viable presidential candidate. Candidates have to be appealing, lively, dynamic and adept at deflecting criticism. And that brings us to Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R), whose debate performance on Monday suggests that his advance billing as the top 2024 alternative to former president Donald Trump might be exaggerated.

National reporters who cover developments in Florida have not necessarily spent much time actually watching or listening to DeSantis. If his plays for the base (Retaliate against Disney!) seem daring or clever to those used to MAGA pandering, observers might be surprised by his personal presentation: Sullen, moody and dull doesn’t scream “Presidential material!”

When confronted with the most obvious question from his opponent, former governor Charlie Crist, as to whether he would serve the full four years if he is reelected, he stared stiffly into space. All DeSantis could muster when it was his turn was an off-key insult (“The only worn-out old donkey I’m looking to put out to pasture is Charlie Crist.”). Crist casually brushed him off: “You won’t even say if you want to be the governor of Florida after this election.”

This does not mean Florida voters care about such things, nor does it mean in the increasingly red state that DeSantis (solidly ahead in the polls) won’t win. But watching the debate, Republicans could be forgiven for asking, “This is the guy who’s supposed to take down Trump and win back the White House?"

As with many MAGA politicians, DeSantis has grown accustomed to hiding from tough questions and enjoying the cushy coverage afforded by a docile right-wing media. He routinely excludes the press from events. As a result, he has not learned to deflect difficult questions with aplomb.

In the debate, he seemed not to have thought through responses to weaknesses his opponent was sure to exploit, such as passing the buck to local officials regarding his failure to order evacuations before the recent monster hurricane. He was easily tripped up when bragging about his record on the coronavirus (which has killed more than 82,000 Floridians). His anti-business assaults on the cruise industry and on Disney were easy targets for a centrist Democrat like Crist.

And when it came to abortion, DeSantis seemed oblivious to the world of facts and public opinion that exists outside the MAGA universe.
Reciting tired and blatantly false talking points about abortion up to the moment of birth (which, as the New York Times notes, “doesn’t exist, even in states without gestational limits”), critical race theory (which he insists is teaching children to “hate” America) and gender-affirming care (falsely suggesting that young children will be candidates for surgery) might fly at a Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) rally.

But such hackery doesn’t work so well on the national stage. Nothing in his debate performance suggested the ability to project a positive, widely appealing national message that can survive even a modicum of fact-checking.

A certain tone-deafness (see the ad prompting an uncomfortable comparison to Michael Dukakis’s infamous helmeted appearance in a tank) seems to afflict DeSantis. And while such missteps do not spell defeat for an incumbent governor in a red state, they do suggest he might be an easy target (as Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio was in 2016) for more aggressive GOP competitors.

GOP donors and insiders have noticed he is “missing the sociability gene,” as Vanity Fair reported. “People describe DeSantis’s personality as a mix of extreme arrogance and painful awkwardness.” And apparently those who know him the best like him the least:

DeSantis’s offices have earned a reputation as very unhappy places to work. “When you work for Ron, he makes you feel like you’re just lucky to be there,” a former gubernatorial aide said. “I once had to drive him to the airport. We got stuck in traffic for an hour, and he didn’t say a word,” a former congressional staffer told me. “I describe him as having the personality of a piece of paper.” Last year, Politico reported ex-DeSantis staffers had formed a “support group” to commiserate over their bruising experiences. “He’s a terrible bully,” a past adviser said.

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None of this is fatal to presidential ambitions. Lots of politicians are jerks. But missing charisma, a winning personality and verbal acuity might make a presidential campaign tough going for DeSantis. The qualifications that intrigue horserace reporters just won’t necessarily help him in the bright lights of primary politics. Just ask President Marco Rubio or President Scott Walker.

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hanimmal said:

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Roger A. Shrubber said:

so...i've been saying that since people started saying desantis could run and win...but, trump can't win either.
they're going to be fucking themselves, one way or another. two republican candidates running the whole race, will screw each other, because one of them is going to be trump. makes not one fucking bit of difference what other republican he runs against. if it's desantis, or pence, or whoever they sacrifice, they're still fucked, because trump...
they are already at a disadvantage as far as registered voters go, and trump running will take 30-35% of the republican base from who ever the gop endorses. trump running again will also drive independents away from the republican party in droves...
if the democrats can avoid any major fuck ups over the next two years, they're as close to guaranteed the presidency in '24 as they can be.

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In new 2024 poll, Ron DeSantis better than Donald Trump against Joe Biden among Florida voters

Could the Governor be the 'favorite son' candidate of Florida Republicans in 2024?

floridapolitics.com

PJ Diaz said:

In new 2024 poll, Ron DeSantis better than Donald Trump against Joe Biden among Florida voters

Could the Governor be the 'favorite son' candidate of Florida Republicans in 2024?

floridapolitics.com

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Roger A. Shrubber said:

that's still doesn't address the issue of the republican base being smaller than the democratic base, that trump will keep his faithful core, which is at least 20% of the party, probably more like 30%...the fact that many many independents have stated they plan to vote democratic, that the republicans have been alienating students, lgbtq people, veterans, women...that the actions of the extreme right wing supreme court are connected directly with the republican party, no matter how much they lie about being impartial.
short of the democrats shooting both their own feet completely off, i don't see the republicans having a chance in 24, no matter who they run...unless they can hard core, cold turkey ditch trump and the magats...basically reform the entire party, expell the radical right, the christian nationalists, the fascists...and then they would still probably lose.

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