Defining Habeas corpus ...

Doobie006 said:

I have no problem with torturing "bad guys".
If I was a father and had a daughter who got raped and I caught the S.O.B, just give me some pliers, battery acid, and barbed wire and I'll go medieval on his ass...

However State sponsored torture is a different story all together.
Governments are notorious for making mistakes. This is not the power we want to entrust to our government.

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Hey Meduse, Did you not understand the above Quote. I was making your point. That we cannot trust the goverment to determine Who is a "Bad Guy".
*With all due respect, Pay attention before you post*

I made the mistake V does all the time and nitpicked one sentence out of your post, I apologise. We agree that the Govt. has too much power. and I guess you don,t like the new Bush laws. Well Amen Brother, Hey, I'm not the communitst V would have you believe! I believe in free enterprise, I just don't believe in government run by greedy corporate assholes that make laws restricting our freedoms by shoving fear down our throats>

Your guess is right. I don't like any laws that give more power to the president or the government in general. And this has nothing to do with which party is in power. Neither can be completely trusted and Both have fucked us all one way or another.

medicinaluseonly said:

I made the mistake V does all the time and nitpicked one sentence out of your post, I apologise. We agree that the Govt. has too much power. and I guess you don,t like the new Bush laws. Well Amen Brother, Hey, I'm not the communitst V would have you believe! I believe in free enterprise, I just don't believe in government run by greedy corporate assholes that make laws restricting our freedoms by shoving fear down our throats>

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If you believe in free enterprise, how would you justify turning our entire health care industry over to the federal government to run?

Vi

ViRedd said:

If you believe in free enterprise, how would you justify turning our entire health care industry over to the federal government to run?

Vi

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Because the Free interprise model has priced themselves out of the market and now we have more uninsured people than we ever had.
Get it through your head, if you pay the cost upfront and maintain a healthy work force our country would be able to maintain the cost of such a program.

Seven percent of our GNP turned over to federal bureaucrats to run? You don't see a problem with that? Is it because health care is too great in importance for the private sector to run that we must turn it over to the federal government?

Vi

No it's the corporate entities involved in private care that's the problem. Multi-million dollar CEO salarys while the HMOs are turning down lifesaving procedures for patients and Medicine costs are forcing the "donut Hole" seniors to miss meals to stay alive. Geezers your are a stubborn hard ass. Ill fucking guarantee if you had a life threatining illness and couldn't afford health care you'd certainly change your mind about the state of private health care, how many people die every day in this country from piss poor or no health care! The Greedy HMOs and big Pharma are the roadblocks to good affordable health care. Take them out of the formula, institute a state sponsored single payer system, let the Govt. regulate the runaway cost of medicines and you'd have the equivalent of what many other countries not as rich as US have done for their citizens, provided comprehensive health care for everyone. Is that so horrendous?

"Take them out of the formula, institute a state sponsored single payer system, let the Govt. regulate the runaway cost of medicines..."

No thanks, Med. The last time the government regulated anything it was gasoline. I didn't like the shortages it caused.

Again, I ask ... is the health care of the population so important that the entire health care industry be turned over to government?

Vi

Yes!...............

medicinaluseonly said:

Yes!...............

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Ok, so here's a question for you: If health care is too important for the private sector to run, then surely the production and distribution of food should be turned over to government as well, right? I mean after all, isn't it true that just like the big drug companies, large corporations control the majority of food production and distribution now as well? Don't these food corporations lobby government just like the big drug companies do? Why, how in the world can a market chain be trusted to order the right food, in the correct amounts without government's central planning? How can the food processors be trusted to keep the food prices affordable when the food industry is a monopoly? How can they guarantee freshness and food that is fit to eat? All of these areas could be better served by the central planning of government bureaucrats don't you think?

We'll talk about shoe and toilet paper production and allotment later.

Vi

ViRedd said:

Seven percent of our GNP turned over to federal bureaucrats to run? You don't see a problem with that? Is it because health care is too great in importance for the private sector to run that we must turn it over to the federal government?

Vi

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Look Vi since the Republicans have been in office, the government is bigger than ever. You say that you trust their judgment to protect our country, but in the next breath you say you don’t trust them to handle our health care.
You can’t have it both ways. Don’t you see the hypocrisy in your statements?

"Don’t you see the hypocrisy in your statements?"

No I don't see it. I have repeatedly said that I don't support either party and the reason I come down so hard on the Democrats is because I see them as the more dangerous of the two parties. Why more dangerous? Because they are leading us down the road to socialism faster than the Republicans. The Democrats who are left-of-center, like Med, are in direct alignment with the platform of the Communist Party. I've proven it and he's admitted to it. If I had my way, BOTH parties would be out of power, never to return. They are both anti-liberty and anti-freedom.

Vi