Damping Off

sonar

Well-Known Member
What do you guys know about damping off? I've never had trouble with seedlings before, but I've been having a hell of a time getting some new plants up and running. Probably lost close to $200 worth of seeds over the past month. You guys think maybe somehow my soil got contaminated? I bought this bale of promix in the fall and getting towards the end. I'm going to need some more anyway so thinking about just cutting my loses and waiting to pick up some new promix. Would getting it damp and baking it in the oven or even microwaving it for a minute or two help? I know I'm not overwatering so I don't know what else it could be. Assuming it is damping off, how do you guys know how to take care of that?
 
Hi Sonar,
Damping off is a fungus infection that can attack the stem. But a healthy vigorous seedling will not usually be effected. Sorry you lost so many seedlings...especially painful when you add up the dollar amount.

Many people start in soil, but since you are having such a problem, you need to consider making a change. Don't know if your soil has added nutrients or strong organic components. But since seedlings are so sensitive...as you have discovered, I'd suggest getting some mild seed starting mix. Allow the seedling to grow for a couple weeks before transplanting into soil.

To prevent damping off, I have used rootone powder just because it has an anti-fungal in it. Just sprinkle some around base of seedling. Powdered elemental sulfur works good too. Don't overwater and keep air moving over the seedlings. If they get spindly, either prop them up or build up some soil around the base...to support stem.
JD
 
Damping off is actually the Symptom of several different pathogens. They are pretty much everywhere and not necessarily indicative of bad soil, usually bad environment. I've damped off many a plant of all types including 2500 greenhouse plants. It's generally from being too wet. If you are germinating a seed and leave a plastic dome on it for a couple days to where it is fogged up constantly I promise you'll see damping off up close and personal. Within 4 days they will all be dead.

Heres a great publication

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74132.htmlt
 
I went through a spell where I lost 20 seed to damping off. It stopped when I put away my spray bottle. I guess I was killing them with kindness
 
Sonar,
One other thought. It being winter now...inside humidity levels often drop really low. A stressed seedling from low RH is more likely to fall prey to damp off.
JD
 
fresh air is a good cure, considering the humidity is less than 40%. Try lowering the humidity a bit, The only time I had trouble with dampinoff is when the humidity and temp's were both high. Bacteria loves heat and humidity. I dont really think the soil would be contaminated, but as jd said try a seed starter mix and see if that helps. Fans in the room also keep the air moving which is a good thing and makes it a little harder for bacteria of any type to grow. anti fungals are also a good way to eliminate fungus but will also kill any mycorrhizae which might be of benefit to the plant, and is in the white bails of pro-mix.
 
Sonar,
One other thought. It being winter now...inside humidity levels often drop really low. A stressed seedling from low RH is more likely to fall prey to damp off.
JD

I didnt think of rh being too low. I only had problem when it was really high. but Yes low rh will also cause stress for the seedling and make it easier for dampin off to occur
 
Sativa Indica pits wrote: Yes low rh will also cause stress for the seedling and make it easier for dampin off to occur

I speak from experience on that one. I grew in Iowa for a couple years and every winter I'd have that problem. Fixed it with trays of water on every available surface.

EvilMunkee...glad you finally learned to put your spray bottle away. lol It seems like such a natural thing to do...give them a little rain. But all things in moderation...
Happy New Year Guys,
JD
 
Pythium-induced root rot is a common crop disease. When the organism kills newly emerged or emerging seedlings it is known as damping off, and is a very common problem in fields and greenhouses.[SUP][1][/SUP] This disease complex usually involves other pathogens such as Phytophthora and Rhizoctonia.


Phytophthora is sometimes referred to as a fungal-like organism but it is classified under a different kingdom altogether: Chromalveolata (formerly Stramenopila and previously Chromista). This is a good example of convergent evolution: Phytophthora is morphologically very similar to true fungi yet its evolutionary history is quite distinct. In contrast to fungi, chromalveolatas are more closely related to plants than animals. Whereas fungal cell walls are made primarily of chitin, chromalveolata cell walls are constructed mostly of cellulose. Ploidy levels are different between these two groups; Phytophthora have diploid (paired) chromosomes in the vegetative (growing, non-reproductive) stage of life, Fungi are almost always haploid in this state. Biochemical pathways also differ, notably the highly conserved Lysine synthesis path.

Rhizoctonia solani causes a wide range of commercially significant plant diseases. It is one of the fungi responsible for Brown patch (a turfgrass disease), damping off in seedlings, as well as black scurf of potatoes,[SUP][2][/SUP] bare patch of cereals,[SUP][3][/SUP] root rot of sugar beet,[SUP][4][/SUP] belly rot of cucumber,[SUP][5][/SUP] sheath blight of rice,[SUP][6][/SUP] and many other pathogenic conditions. The fungus therefore has a wide host range and strains of Rhizoctonia solani may differ in the hosts they are able to infect, the virulence of infection, selectivity for a given host ranges from non-pathogenic to highly virulent, the temperature at which infection occurs, the ability to develop in lower soil levels, the ability to form sclerotia, the growth rate, the survival in a certain area. These factors may or may not show up given the environment and host that Rhizoctonia attacks.[SUP][7][/SUP]

Rhizoctonia solani causing crown rot infection on Beta vulgaris L, common beet


Rhizoctonia solani primarily attacks seeds of plants below the soil surface, but can also infect pods, roots, leaves and stems. The most common symptom of Rhizoctonia is "damping off", or the failure of infected seeds to germinate. Rhizoctonia solani may invade the seed before it has germinated to cause this pre-emergent damping off, or it can kill very young seedlings soon after they emerge from the soil. Seeds that do germinate before being killed by the fungus have reddish-brown lesions and cankers on stems and roots.
There are various environmental conditions that put the plant at higher risk of infection due to Rhizoctonia, the pathogen prefers warmer wet climates for infection and growth. Post-emergent damping off is a further delay in attack of Rhizoctonia solani. The seedling is most susceptible to disease in its juvenile stage.[SUP][8][/SUP]
Cereals in regions of England, South Australia, Canada, and India experience losses caused by Rhizoctonia solani every year. Roots are killed back, causing plants to be stunted and spindly. Other non cereal plants in those regions can experience brown stumps as another symptom of the pathogen. In England, this is called purple patch. Rhizoctonia solani can also cause hypocotyl and stem cankers on mature plants of tomatoes, potatoes and cabbage. Strands of mycelium and sometimes sclerotia appear on their surfaces. Roots will turn brown and die after a period of time. The best known symptom of Rhizoctonia solani is black scurf on potato tubers which are the sclerotia of the fungus.

Symptoms on common beans, Rhizoctonia damping-off, blight, and rot


[h=2]Disease cycle[edit][/h]Rhizoctonia solani can survive in the soil for many years in the form of sclerotia. Sclerotia of Rhizoctonia have thick outer layers to allow for survival, and they function as the overwintering structure for the pathogen. In some rare cases(such as the teleomorph) the pathogen may also take on the form of mycelium that reside in the soil as well. The fungus is attracted to the plant by chemical stimuli released by a growing plant and/or decomposing plant residue. The process of penetration of a host can be accomplished in a number of ways. Entry can occur through direct penetration of the plant cuticle/epidermis or by means of natural openings in the plant. Hyphae will come in contact with the plant and attach to the plant by which through growth they begin to produce an appressorium which penetrates the plant cell and allows for the pathogen to obtain nutrients from the plant cell. The pathogen can also release enzymes that break down plant cell walls, and continues to colonize and grow inside dead tissue. This breakdown of the cell walls and colonization of the pathogen within the host is what forms the sclerotia. New innoculum is produced on or within the host tissue, and a new cycle is repeated when new plants become available. The disease cycle begins as such- 1)the sclerotia/mycelium overwinter in plant debris, soil or host plants. 2)The young hyphae and fruiting basidia(rare) emerge and produce mycelium and rarely basidiospores. 3)The very rare production of the germinating basidiospore penetrate the stoma whereas the mycelium land on the plant surface and secrete the necessary enzymes onto the plant surface in order to initiate invasion of the host plant. 4)After they mycelium successfully invade the host- necrosis and sclerotia form in and around the infected tissue which then leads to the various symptoms associated with the disease such as soil rot, stem rot, damping off etc. and the process begins all over again.[SUP][9][/SUP]
[h=2]Environment[edit][/h]The pathogen is known to prefer warm wet weather, and outbreaks typically occur in the early summer months Most symptoms of the pathogen do not occur until late summer and thus most farmers do not become aware of the diseased crop until harvest. A combination of environmental factors have been linked to the prevalence of the pathogen such as: presence of host plant, frequent rainfall/irrigation and increased temperatures in spring and summer. In addition, a reduction of drainage of the soil due to various techniques such as soil compaction are also known to create favorable environments for the pathogen.[SUP][10][/SUP] The pathogen is dispersed as sclerotia, and these sclerotia can travel by means of wind, water or soil movement between host plants.

Trichoderma harzianum is a fungus that is also used as a fungicide. It is used for foliar application, seed treatment and soil treatment for suppression of various disease causing fungal pathogens
Trichoderma koningii is a pathogen and antagonist of fungi and also has a negative effect on certain nematodes. It is being used as a biological fungicide.
Trichoderma viride is a fungus and a biofungicide. It is used for seed and soil treatment for suppression of various diseases caused by fungal pathogens. It is also a pathogen in its own right, causing green mould rot of onion.


Information from wiki-
 
nice stuff, Im so sick of dealing with rot on the other end, bud rot. Lost about 5# this yr alone. some area's are just mold factorys. There is that fukn trichoderma!!! ahhh I hate that word, I better go check my mono's make sure they didnt contam form that word in the same house...lol
 
Thanks for the input guys I'll take it into consideration. I should have been more specific. I've germinated hundreds of seeds over the years and can't recall losing a single one. I usually start them in quart or half gallon bags, but after I lost the first batch I thought it might have been because my substrate was too wet. I don't saturate the entire bag when I start with the larger bags, but I thought maybe I got it a little too moist and it was taking too long to dry out with this cooler weather. So, this current batch I went back to my old friend, party cups. No humidity dome and I don't spray them down with a spray bottle ever. Looking back, I can't recall ever starting seeds in the dead of winter before, so I'm leaning towards something to do with this time of year. Not that I am immune to mistakes (obviously) but I'm not exactly a rookie so I would be very surprised if it was something like overwatering.

What do you guys think about to LITTLE humidity? I feel like the air in here is probably dry if anything and we keep our house pretty cool to save on heating bills. I have them in a closet with the 6500K t5's I've been using for about 3-4 years now to start seeds. Thinking about moving them up into my tent and swapping out my 600w hood for the t5 fixture. Other than that, I'm stumped. I just made up some new cups and kept the soil even extra loose. I haven't changed anything I've been doing for several years now, so that's what makes this so strange. I can't keep throwing money down the drain on these seeds, so if it happens again I'm going to see if I can find some new soil somewhere this time of year. It's just straight promix. No nutes or anything like that. They germinate, throw out the cotyledon along with the first tiny set of true leaves and just stop. After a week or two they start turning yellow and die. Out of almost 20 beans now, not a single survivor which is crazy. I can't imagine not one of them somehow making it.
 
well shit that sucks man, 20 lost is a bad day. Do you keep a fan in the room pointed in their direction? Not only does this strengthen the stem it also makes it hard for bacteria mold and fungus grow.

I would say if the humidity was extremely low as jd mentioned this could stress out the sprouts, although ive never had this happen, its quite possible.

mycology may have a hand in your answer?
I have a general knowledge of how it works and how bacteria works. Itis everywhere including the air you breath. (Not a mycologist or anything)
Maybe the batch of soil does have a certain type of bacteria or fungus that is contaminating your grow. Ive done a good deal of pasteurizing for my shrooms and this kills most types of bacteria and fungus. You could try pasteurizing your soil and see if that clears your problem. Its kinda a pain in the ass to say the least.
On top of that, clean everything in your room with a bleach solution. cups, buckets, water devices, anything you can think of that will come in contact with your sprouts.

Im not one for anti fungals, but I guess if I couldnt grow with out it, i would use it

oh check this out, just thought of it mid sentence...http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/peroxide-garden.html this maybe just what you need? i would deff try a few more sprouts with peroxide, But make sure you read the entire thread, there is a mixing chart down bottom some where. a concentration of 10% and higher will kill plants. so keep it much below that level.

hope they pull thru for ya and good luck, keep us posted!!
 
Thanks for the input guys I'll take it into consideration. I should have been more specific. I've germinated hundreds of seeds over the years and can't recall losing a single one. I usually start them in quart or half gallon bags, but after I lost the first batch I thought it might have been because my substrate was too wet. I don't saturate the entire bag when I start with the larger bags, but I thought maybe I got it a little too moist and it was taking too long to dry out with this cooler weather. So, this current batch I went back to my old friend, party cups. No humidity dome and I don't spray them down with a spray bottle ever. Looking back, I can't recall ever starting seeds in the dead of winter before, so I'm leaning towards something to do with this time of year. Not that I am immune to mistakes (obviously) but I'm not exactly a rookie so I would be very surprised if it was something like overwatering.

What do you guys think about to LITTLE humidity? I feel like the air in here is probably dry if anything and we keep our house pretty cool to save on heating bills. I have them in a closet with the 6500K t5's I've been using for about 3-4 years now to start seeds. Thinking about moving them up into my tent and swapping out my 600w hood for the t5 fixture. Other than that, I'm stumped. I just made up some new cups and kept the soil even extra loose. I haven't changed anything I've been doing for several years now, so that's what makes this so strange. I can't keep throwing money down the drain on these seeds, so if it happens again I'm going to see if I can find some new soil somewhere this time of year. It's just straight promix. No nutes or anything like that. They germinate, throw out the cotyledon along with the first tiny set of true leaves and just stop. After a week or two they start turning yellow and die. Out of almost 20 beans now, not a single survivor which is crazy. I can't imagine not one of them somehow making it.

Hydroponics is the only "sterile" way of growing. Soil however has all the bad microbes with the good. The only difference is which one will dominate based on favorable conditions. If you keep dominance in good microbes, you have no worries. Chances are that any time rot is dectected, it was caused by the soil/media being to wet and lacking 02. Coupled with stress...... a seedling stands no chance.
 
Last year I think I HAD A damping off problem on several flats of seedlings

im fairly sure it was due to overwatering (killing them with love)

I dryed the soil out heavly for seedlings , then when I watered I used 1.5 % H2O2 , and reapeted this treatment next time the soil got a little to dry

I think I saved some of my seedlings , but most died , the time I wasted I should have just replanted new seeds in new steril soil

Since then I have bleached my cold frame well, and will do it again soon
 
kinda forgot about it for a long time, I remember reading an artical on it in a grow guide yrs ago. never used it tho, might try.http://hubpages.com/hub/Hydrogen-Peroxide-for-Plants another link they claim organic

I want to use it to kill mold spores in the air and I would imagine it would break down chemically before it could get into the soil. This article promotes it for organic gardening with soil applications. I just can't get my head around how that is compatible with organic gardening? Isn't it going to kill all micro-organisms, beneficial and otherwise? Thanks again for the links, I'm still learning about using this stuff and trying to get better at organic gardening.
 
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