Daily CEO pay now exceeds average worker's annual salary

UncleBuck said:

there must not have been many economic problems before government got involved then, right?



LOfucking L!

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Not quite. Personal failure, such as spending all day trolling an internet forum could be the cause of an individuals economic failure. Or perhaps a person simply has a shitty product etc.

But that's not what I was talking about. I meant "market" in the sense that the free market as a system operates best unimpeded by intervention of a parasitic regulatory structure. Of course there are and always will be personal economic failures.

As far as unwanted third parties (government) in free market transactions....how do you justify them?

UncleBuck said:

so, did the big bad gubbmint man break your legs?

only you can put you on the couch for 8 weeks. quit insisting that the government draft a new constitution for every angst ridden, coming of age teen like yourself.

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I'm not looking for a piece of paper to solve problems. Why are you channeling the inflatable doll fucking Cheezus? Angst ridden teen? You can do better than that. I have weed older than you that will put you on the couch son.

tokeprep said:

How are you measuring "at the expense of other people"? The companies that spend $40 billion a year at Oracle seem to find their products useful. That $40 billion in sales supports 120,000 jobs. So Larry Ellison makes $100 million, is it really at the expense of anyone? He founded the company and owns around $40 billion in stock. $100 million isn't much of a dividend to pay the man who built the $140 billion enterprise.

You don't think software is actually useful? It's all a scam?

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You bring up a good point. One person success isn't necessarily at the expense of another....unless the success is a result of coercive subsidy and regulation that prevents others from the same opportunity.

You do realize that the USA did in fact have a max wage cap. One of the main reasons the middle class is going away is the fact that profits that at one time would go towards pay increases for workers instead are going to upper management.

Follow the $$$ trail and you will see that as productivity went up average workers wages went up with it ....... until somewhere around the republican idiot president Reagans time.... you know... when all the tax laws were changed to allow romney's idea of destroying most of his investments for profit. Before Reagan romney's business plan was illegal.

I am all for making $$$ , just not at the expense of fucking your workers over.

Actually nevermind, I forgot , some of you idiots worship Ayn Rand.


Excuse some of the rambling (proper sentence structure etc) 6am Sunday.

WillyBagseed said:

You do realize that the USA did in fact have a max wage cap. One of the main reasons the middle class is going away is the fact that profits that at one time would go towards pay increases for workers instead are going to upper management.

Follow the $$$ trail and you will see that as productivity went up average workers wages went up with it ....... until somewhere around the republican idiot president Reagans time.... you know... when all the tax laws were changed to allow romney's idea of destroying most of his investments for profit. Before Reagan romney's business plan was illegal.

I am all for making $$$ , just not at the expense of fucking your workers over.

Actually nevermind, I forgot , some of you idiots worship Ayn Rand.


Excuse some of the rambling (proper sentence structure etc) 6am Sunday.

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...In a truly free market, the "workers" could only be fucked over for so long. People would be free to start their own business and provide goods and services that consumers want.

The present market is heavily regulated, it isn't "free", the regulation prevents enterprise, growth and opportunity. THAT is why people get fucked over. Ayn Rand is dead. I don't worship her.

Reagan and Romney are both horseshit and do not belong in a conversation about the free market. Politicians do not bring freedom, they can only limit it.

Rob Roy said:

Reagan and Romney are both horseshit and do not belong in a conversation about the free market. Politicians do not bring freedom, they can only limit it.

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You must be old to say such things, I agree completely. I only shop at Costco, I will never set foot in Walmart.

Rob Roy said:

Not quite. Personal failure, such as spending all day trolling an internet forum could be the cause of an individuals economic failure. Or perhaps a person simply has a shitty product etc.

But that's not what I was talking about. I meant "market" in the sense that the free market as a system operates best unimpeded by intervention of a parasitic regulatory structure. Of course there are and always will be personal economic failures.

As far as unwanted third parties (government) in free market transactions....how do you justify them?

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Two problems.
1) An extracorporate regulatory structure is absolutely unavoidable. Consider the single example of environmental accountability. Let's not do it like our filthy neighbors across the Pacific.
2) Such a regulatory structure is parasitic by definition and corruptible by simple human nature.
The bottom line is that human nature raises the hurdle to a free market ever staying that way. Without a regulatory structure of any sort, it becomes a Road Warrior world. No thank you. cn

Rob Roy said:

Reagan and Romney are both horseshit and do not belong in a conversation about the free market. Politicians do not bring freedom, they can only limit it.

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I think the 60's Reagan belongs but pres Reagan most definitely doesn't. I think many politicians are spurred into serving because they know what needs to be done, but something happens once they enter the corrupt, power grabbing black hole known as DC.

As far as the distortion of CEO pay, we should expect a market correction on this. It's way out of whack right now.

The CEO salary is not something that the CEO has control over. The Board of governors/Shareholders are the ones who decide how much the CEO gets paid. You think running a corporation is easy? Just do nothing but sit around getting wined and dined all day long right?

Go be a big shot CEO, say goodbye to your life as you know it, because all those big shot CEOs work 16-18 hour days EVERY DAY. Even on vacation they spend 12 hours a day on business. Most good CEOs are people who handle great amounts of stress well, not for the weak. Many of them grow old before realizing they misspent their entire lives pursuing the wrong things.

Nothing to stop any of you from becoming rich and successful other than yourself.

If everyone were forced to be truly equal, we would be the poorest country on earth. The fact that there is someone doing something you want to do, owning something you want to own, living the way you want to live is what motivates us to get off our ass and do something about it.

How hard would you work if you knew there was never going to be a reward?

Nothing in the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence that says men should be equal.

WillyBagseed said:

You do realize that the USA did in fact have a max wage cap. One of the main reasons the middle class is going away is the fact that profits that at one time would go towards pay increases for workers instead are going to upper management.

Follow the $$$ trail and you will see that as productivity went up average workers wages went up with it ....... until somewhere around the republican idiot president Reagans time.... you know... when all the tax laws were changed to allow romney's idea of destroying most of his investments for profit. Before Reagan romney's business plan was illegal.

I am all for making $$$ , just not at the expense of fucking your workers over.

Actually nevermind, I forgot , some of you idiots worship Ayn Rand.


Excuse some of the rambling (proper sentence structure etc) 6am Sunday.

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Umm sooo you just explained exactly how the government made it more profitable than before by passing laws that changed the tax structure, but fail to see the logic behind free markets? You know, ones FREE from the vagaries of government interventions? Like passing laws that change the tax structure?

I suppose in your mind the cause is that people are gaming the new tax laws now and using them to make money?

You don't say?

WillyBagseed said:

You do realize that the USA did in fact have a max wage cap. One of the main reasons the middle class is going away is the fact that profits that at one time would go towards pay increases for workers instead are going to upper management.

Follow the $$$ trail and you will see that as productivity went up average workers wages went up with it ....... until somewhere around the republican idiot president Reagans time.... you know... when all the tax laws were changed to allow romney's idea of destroying most of his investments for profit. Before Reagan romney's business plan was illegal.

I am all for making $$$ , just not at the expense of fucking your workers over.

Actually nevermind, I forgot , some of you idiots worship Ayn Rand.


Excuse some of the rambling (proper sentence structure etc) 6am Sunday.

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Not exactly, the "wage cap" was top marginal tax rates up to 90%. With taxes that high, no one would pay anyone much more than that. So it was an effective wage cap, but it wasn't illegal to make much more than that. One of the positive results of these high taxes were that folks would spread around the wealth a little, to people working for them. Fifty years ago in this country, a man could support his wife and kids fairly well (buy a house, an automobile, take vacations) with one relatively low level job. No this is impossible. I think a return to 90% tax on all income earned over $15 million would be a positive for this country.

kpmarine said:

I think all of those recently bailed out businesses are a pretty sound counterpoint to that. CEO pay has spiraled, and it is honestly concerning. It's showing a further shift away from stockholder concerns, and a greater emphasis on milking a company for your own ends. When you make more by getting fired; what's the incentive?

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Did I say ANY businesses should've been bailed out?

Crony-capitalism only exists because of the lack of a free market.

Sure consumers need a certain level of regulation and protection on certain obvious items, but Government over-intervention into a free market is EXACTLY why those dickheads got the free pass.

Businesses don't necessarily NEED to exploit people to make sick profits, certain ones do, but such is a fact of life... Don't blame gun owners because one dickhead goes "Rambo".

One guarantee I'll give you tho, if a company overpays a CEO and doesn't have the sound fundamentals to back it up, without (bullshit) Govt life support those companies will fail and from those ashes someone else will do it better for a better price.

Govt intervention RUINS markets, it doesnt promote them.

Or we could just keep trying the failing method...

If ye wish to have a truly free libertarian country go move to Somalia..... let me know how much it rocks...... lol

WillyBagseed said:

If ye wish to have a truly free libertarian country go move to Somalia..... let me know how much it rocks...... lol

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libertarians believe in the rule of law, and all men are equal in the eyes of the law. They understand the need to enforce laws based on human nature(see Somalia). Somalia is a screwed up anarchists dream. No matter what some will tell you, Libertarian and Anarchy are not the same. FU to AC in advance.

WillyBagseed said:

If ye wish to have a truly free libertarian country go move to Somalia..... let me know how much it rocks...... lol

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I'm obviously not a pure blood libertarian, but I believe in whatever works best economically.

I'd call myself a pragmatist with an emphasis on personal liberties.

So Im a "whatever you want to call it-ist".

Harrekin said:

Did I say ANY businesses should've been bailed out?

Crony-capitalism only exists because of the lack of a free market.

Sure consumers need a certain level of regulation and protection on certain obvious items, but Government over-intervention into a free market is EXACTLY why those dickheads got the free pass.

Businesses don't necessarily NEED to exploit people to make sick profits, certain ones do, but such is a fact of life... Don't blame gun owners because one dickhead goes "Rambo".

One guarantee I'll give you tho, if a company overpays a CEO and doesn't have the sound fundamentals to back it up, without (bullshit) Govt life support those companies will fail and from those ashes someone else will do it better for a better price.

Govt intervention RUINS markets, it doesnt promote them.

Or we could just keep trying the failing method...

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Some regulations need to be in place. Even with existing regulations; some companies will cut corners and risk lives to save a few dollars. The BP oil spill and fertilizer explosion in TX being good examples of these things. I agree, there are definitely many problems with our system, but jumping to the extreme of no intervention does not seem likely to fix everything either.

kpmarine said:

Some regulations need to be in place. Even with existing regulations; some companies will cut corners and risk lives to save a few dollars. The BP oil spill and fertilizer explosion in TX being good examples of these things. I agree, there are definitely many problems with our system, but jumping to the extreme of no intervention does not seem likely to fix everything either.

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And even with regulation, there will be anamolies or "incidents"... Does that justify unnecessary regulation or direct Govt meddling in the markets simply to complete the circle jerk with their "contributors" ?

Oh and fuck fractional reserve banking. It's the reason we owe billions of hours of labour to pay back the "funny money" debts printed by others.

ginwilly said:

libertarians believe in the rule of law, and all men are equal in the eyes of the law. They understand the need to enforce laws based on human nature(see Somalia). Somalia is a screwed up anarchists dream. No matter what some will tell you, Libertarian and Anarchy are not the same. FU to AC in advance.

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Deciphering...

"Libertarianism actually means statism and anarchy actually means hierarchy. I know AC will come correct me though."