Could low humidity do this?

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
You started this thread on the 20th showing pictures of damage (which took longer than overnight) saying it happened as humidity dropped overnight. At this point your saying your plants are lowering your res nutrients by 100 a day.

As if by magic on the next day 21st i see all is well and as if by magic have recovered, grown bigger and have a scrog. What a difference a day makes but seems more likely there is a bigger gap than a day.

But instead of leaving things be you upped your res by 200ppm of nutrients then shortly after (based on comments damage is calmag and leds need more calmag) added a futher 200ppm of calmag.

We establish its not really humidity and then the plants start to stress again. Were the plants simply happy on the initial res where they lowered by 100ppms and really seemed to have a good week of growth or is that 400ppm extra what they want and not tipping them over the edge? Thats all i can tell or see, res not being at right levels, ph rising and ppm rising probably points to something but really idk just that if it was calmag i highly doubt with the levels your giving already.

In places it looks like you soilt something on the leaf but what are all them little white things on the leaf in the last picture?


Hmm. Ok!
Any ideas what it might be then? pH was up to 7 this morning too high i know, but i dunno if plants would react that quickly when the pH is off...?
Cheers!
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
We establish its not really humidity and then the plants start to stress again. Were the plants simply happy on the initial res where they lowered by 100ppms and really seemed to have a good week of growth or is that 400ppm extra what they want and not tipping them over the edge? Thats all i can tell or see, res not being at right levels, ph rising and ppm rising probably points to something but really idk just that if it was calmag i highly doubt with the levels your giving already.
Ok many thanks for the reply. As you say pH/ppm levels aren't right (just checked overnight, ppm up 200, pH up to 7!!) basically I'm letting things drift far too much. I check/readjust in the morning, I really need to start monitoring a bit better, eg checking before I go to bed.
Will do a rez change today, 1000ppm base nutes 200ppm calmag, pH 5.8 and keep it there as you say she seemed happiest there.
Thanks!
 

Cx2H

Well-Known Member
Ok many thanks for the reply. As you say pH/ppm levels aren't right (just checked overnight, ppm up 200, pH up to 7!!) basically I'm letting things drift far too much. I check/readjust in the morning, I really need to start monitoring a bit better, eg checking before I go to bed.
Will do a rez change today, 1000ppm base nutes 200ppm calmag, pH 5.8 and keep it there as you say she seemed happiest there.
Thanks!
5.8-6.275 is the zone maybe let it hit 6.5. set lt low if it's swinging up.

Control DO (bubbles) and it may stabilize better. Excessive DO will swing up low DO swings down in my set up.

I can't speculate what variables are in your set up.

And camg is your friend in hydro.

Good luck
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
5.8-6.275 is the zone maybe let it hit 6.5. set lt low if it's swinging up.

Control DO (bubbles) and it may stabilize better. Excessive DO will swing up low DO swings down in my set up.

I can't speculate what variables are in your set up.

And camg is your friend in hydro.

Good luck
Cheers. Man...weird shit going on in bucket. Since rez change about 10 hours ago - ppm up from 1200 to 1320, ph up from 5.8 to 7. They are both flying up...and i have no idea whats causing it!
Any ideas?
 

Cx2H

Well-Known Member
Cheers. Man...weird shit going on in bucket. Since rez change about 10 hours ago - ppm up from 1200 to 1320, ph up from 5.8 to 7. They are both flying up...and i have no idea whats causing it!
Any ideas?
Ec/ppm goes up as the water level is dropping by the minute. If I let my res hit 1/4 full EC/ppm spikes up to 3k-4k ppm and the pH is all over the place. Plants just want to drink water sometimes and not uptake all the nutes. Top off the res and reset pH daily.

pH can also swing from microbiology activity in the system.


Optional
Try regulating the bubbles in the system. Try turning it down wait a little while test the water, then crank it up, Wait and retest see if it has any effect in that case.
 

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
If ppm and ph rise i thought your that meant rez too high ppm.

If your fertilizer has calcium and magnesium already theres a good chance you dont need the extra or to add to those buffers.

You should ask someone who is better at hydro for more exact details on this.
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Thanks, she stabilised overnight which is good news, ppm 1250 pH 5.8 she just seemed to go nuts after the res change for some reason.
Spots dont appear to speading that badly but i dont waht any more!
Thanks!
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
The rusty spots are very VERY rusty coloured...its more a case of damaged leaves getting worse than the damage spreading but still i dont want it!
Looks very similar to initial symptoms which improved with CalMag...so im tempted to give her a bit more and see how she does...
 

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2Hearts

Well-Known Member
You didnt add calmag and got some great growth, in all it just seems a res problem and fertilizer level. Calmag is a myth, many dont add extra and any hydro fert will normally be pretty high in it anyway.

You need your res ppm to start dropping or the plant isnt eating and when you got a rise in ppm it was likely too much so as the plants drunk the res got more concentrated.

Still you need someone better at hydro than me byt i am pointing out you originally solved your problem before adding calmag and got great growth and threw a scrog ontop.

Is your calmag also nitrogen because thats seriously adding to your npk not just calmag - reason why people want organic calcium as in salt form it generally comes with a ton of nitrogen.

Stuff to think on, you got the calmag bug at the moment and should teduce your base ferts to accomodate the nitrogen or you risk overfertilization.
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Not a
You didnt add calmag and got some great growth, in all it just seems a res problem and fertilizer level. Calmag is a myth, many dont add extra and any hydro fert will normally be pretty high in it anyway.

You need your res ppm to start dropping or the plant isnt eating and when you got a rise in ppm it was likely too much so as the plants drunk the res got more concentrated.

Still you need someone better at hydro than me byt i am pointing out you originally solved your problem before adding calmag and got great growth and threw a scrog ontop.

Is your calmag also nitrogen because thats seriously adding to your npk not just calmag - reason why people want organic calcium as in salt form it generally comes with a ton of nitrogen.

Stuff to think on, you got the calmag bug at the moment and should teduce your base ferts to accomodate the nitrogen or you risk overfertilization.
Not a fan of CalMag then...?
 

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
Do you know npk ca mg ratios? What are your fertilizers saying here?

Theres a way to do stuff properly, most are not using calmag and the ones that do probably havent got to that point yet.

Its got so bad leds in the early days spun a myth that leds needed more cal/mag than other lights. Im a big fan of calcium but it gets into the hands of idiots and they love to drive up sales of pointless stuff you already have enough of.

Not a

Not a fan of CalMag then...?
 

teddy bonkers

Well-Known Member
Do you know npk ca mg ratios? What are your fertilizers saying here?

Theres a way to do stuff properly, most are not using calmag and the ones that do probably havent got to that point yet.

Its got so bad leds in the early days spun a myth that leds needed more cal/mag than other lights. Im a big fan of calcium but it gets into the hands of idiots and they love to drive up sales of pointless stuff you already have enough of.
I was probably one of the first people to point out a problem caused from led lighting. led deficiencies is a real thing thing that is still not 100% understood. https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-information-on-cal-mag-deficiencies-when-using-led-lights.936000/page-9
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
I dunno, she definitely improved after i added calmag.
Scrog/hook system working well, lift it, hook it and its out of the way and i can do stuff in the rez.
Scrog way bushier than id hoped, I think i need to defoliate a bit! Will flip her this week.
IMG_20200603_192540604.jpgIMG_20200603_192552473_HDR.jpg
 

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
Start watching your res ppm and levels better, thats the only problem you had and dud equally well without cal/mag which is obvious in the thread.

Hope it all stays ghood till harvest for you.

I dunno, she definitely improved after i added calmag.
Scrog/hook system working well, lift it, hook it and its out of the way and i can do stuff in the rez.
Scrog way bushier than id hoped, I think i need to defoliate a bit! Will flip her this week.
View attachment 4584302View attachment 4584303
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Cheers 2H!
Aaaahhhh she stil not happy. Ppm has been consistently rising, eg 1100 to 1200 overnight. So did a rez change she has 975 now, really hoping that drops which will tell me she is feeding...theres some yellowing on the leave edges.
Not for the first time im thinking - she seems to be hungry (symptoms of deficiencies yellowing, rusty spots etc...) but ppm is rising. If she is hungry why isnt she feeding?
Thanks!
IMG_20200605_111103069.jpg
 

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
The yellow leaf edges are the start of moisture stress, thats an easy one to diagnose. Its not absorbing you need to find the right levels where it does, hoping you have cut that calmag too just use the base feed.

Reasons i use soil, couldnt be bothered fine tunning a res.


Cheers 2H!
Aaaahhhh she stil not happy. Ppm has been consistently rising, eg 1100 to 1200 overnight. So did a rez change she has 975 now, really hoping that drops which will tell me she is feeding...theres some yellowing on the leave edges.
Not for the first time im thinking - she seems to be hungry (symptoms of deficiencies yellowing, rusty spots etc...) but ppm is rising. If she is hungry why isnt she feeding?
Thanks!
View attachment 4586057
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Cheers, yeah shes on just base nutes at the moment...slight drop in ppm but a drop is what im looking for so fingers crossed!
Moisture stress, ok but in hydro i dont quite understand how that works...?
Thanks!
 

shiva71

Well-Known Member
She has gone beserko last 2 weeks, so much for my nice neat scrog 6 inches above the net!!
Interesting ppm was down to 785, over 12 hours it rose to 840, she's at 750 now.
She seems very stretchy but Strawberry Cough is a sativa dom so i guess thats normal?
Cheers!
IMG_20200617_183543458.jpgIMG_20200617_183608733.jpg
 

te5ter

Active Member
Stumbled on this old thread while looking for humidity answers and had to comment...

All leaves on the plant should be "praying to the light", otherwise you have an issue. The initial pictures of this thread showed signs of too much light. The larger the trunk is on the plant, the more light it can take. Too much light (not heat from light) will cause the plant's "pump system" to overload and break down. New leaf growth will be curled and stunted. Larger new leaves at the top will become leathery as they shrivel to protect from the light. The first signs of too much light will be rust spots or cal-mag like deficiencies in older leaves. I think this is caused by deficiencies in other parts of the plant due to the system overload from the excess light. Magnesium is a "mobile" element so the plant can rob it from the leaves if it is needed elsewhere. If not corrected the rust spots will continue to spread into flowering and trichome density will be affected negatively. There might be other factors that contribute to the rust spots. I never had much success with adding cal-mag, if any. VPD might be a factor. My plants were continuously fed a large amount of low humidity air from the house but I never measured.
If you ever see the rust spots, back off on the light and you will see that the leaves will recover so that the areas around the rust spots will fill with dark green and the spots will cease to spread.
Broad spectrum LED's can easily overload a plant. I ran a 8 sq ft box with a 400 watt sodium for years and suffered from the rust problem but still produced decent bud. The box had very low head space so I had to keep my plants small. The trunks never got larger than 3/8" or so. I switched to Bridgelux LED at 200 watts and fried my plants real quick. When I finally caught on after trying just about everything I fine tuned and found out exactly how much light those small plants could take before getting rust spots. For that 8 sq ft canopy area the most they could take was 130-135 watts of BridgeLux 3500k strip LED's at 5-10 inches from the canopy.
Finely burned tips are not necessarily an indication of an issue. You can get rid of them by turning the light way down but that will affect the yield.
I've run PPM up to around 4000 before any signs of toxicity showed. My cheap Chinese meter had gone way off and I didn't know it. The leaves got very dark green, curled over, and got crispy dry. PPM had been high for a while but they showed no signs of ill health. When I added the last bit of nutes they turned overnight. When I got a good meter I was amazed that they could take that much nutes. I normally run 1300-1400 all the way through with RO water that comes out around 70-100.
You have to have a nute reservoir large enough so that changes in water level don't affect PPM and PH. The best you can do is run a float valve with continuous RO water supply. PPM will drop as the plants eat, PH will rise slightly as the PPM goes down, and you feed just a little at a time to keep PPM and PH in the desired range.
If you do see rust spots and it's not too bad, they might stop spreading as the plant becomes larger and can handle more light.
The best thing you can do for your efforts is to keep a log with pictures, PPM, Watts, PH, other changes... everything. Otherwise you will chase your tail and get frustrated. Keep it simple. Change one thing at a time. Be patient and see what those changes do.
If the plant is stressed, turn the light down until you figure out what's going on. Transplanted plants need low light to slow the metabolism so it can have time to adjust to the new environment and get the "bio engine" running again. You'll know when the plant is ready to go. Push it too hard and you'll end up with immune issues and root rot. Healthy plants can deal with a little bacteria in the water without getting sick.
When you fill a new tub, give it a few days for the bacteria flora to stabilize before you put transplanted plants in that are stressed. The tub doesn't have to be 100% sterile. Just remove all organic material, run water with a cup of bleach through the pump and everything for a day or so, flush that, then fill it, add nutes, and let it sit for a few days with pump and air stone running so that the good bacteria can stabilize the environment. Then put your plants in with low light until they start growing and look healthy. I've actually gone two full harvests without changing the nutes so don't think you have to kill yourself to flush and refill. Just keep healthy plants and the tub will stay healthy.
If you don't have a dial or app to adjust the light intensity you are doing it wrong. :)
What I'm learning now is that a sealed environment requires a crap ton of humidity removal. Those plants are like water pumps. And to keep humidity and temperature stable it requires a huge amount of air space just like the nute reservoir needs to be large enough to handle small changes. Otherwise humidity will go up and down as your equipment tries to deal with it.
The attached pics are of an LED burnt plant from 25watts/sq ft and a bud produced with 17watts/sq ft of BridgeLux 3500k LED strips and no cal-mag added.
Anyway, back to work...
 

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