Copycating a strain?

DumpsterKeeper said:

This all started because Riot Seeds has SUPPOSEDLY started producing Blue Dream seeds. I call bullshit because 1)Blue Dream is a clone-only strain out of Santa Cruz, and a relatively new one, so I doubt they just made some seeds and 2)If you look on Riot's website, you'll see they use the same pictures on several different seeds.

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Yeah, I guess from my point of view, if you know the lineage of a designer strain, and then make your own using the same genetics, you're just doing what they did. Granted you shouldn't use their name brand, but if you make your own version and name it something else, it's yours right?

You're right on that. I've already got a Goo & Mango setup, if I get one male I'm planning on breeding it and calling the winner Mangoo or Man-Goo.

Maximus cannabis said:

Yeah, I guess from my point of view, if you know the lineage of a designer strain, and then make your own using the same genetics, you're just doing what they did. Granted you shouldn't use their name brand, but if you make your own version and name it something else, it's yours right?

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yup. the chances of "their" strain and your strain being the exact same r slim to none. even when coming from the same genetics

Maximus cannabis said:

You also want to read about how to create F2's and back crossing. It doesn't take forever, but it can be time consuming to stabilize a strain after mixing. Basically, you mix two strains, plant the seeds, look for one with the traits you want, then cross it back to the original parent whose traits you are trying to keep. These are F-2. You grow out a bunch of these seeds, which are closer to your original genetics, and pick the best. Then you cross it back with the original parent, and this will create the F-3, and this is usually where most people consider it stable. Some people have gone to F-7, but a lot of times that's just to get the original genetics from a clone only stain.

This is my understanding at least. There are a lot of breeding threads here, check out Subcools thread. He goes into a l ot of detail and m ales his strain with males, not feminizing.

Check this out
https://www.rollitup.org/breeders-paradise/395655-creating-true-breeding-strains-vic.html

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So what is it called when you cross a male and female from the same seed stock and produce your own seeds? Like you get a pack of 10 skunk, cross a male with a female and make your own skunk seeds...what is the offspring of that cross called?

RawBudzski said:

haha.. yea. but we have no use for it here. Maybe with evolution/ genetic altering. we will be diff when in Space. I personally think when Man kind can be Born, Live and Die in space. thoes who do live up their will not be the same as us.. as they do not need the same type of body. and its functions.. I wouldnt be surprised if MAN, Created / Made a Human like being but smaller and more suitable to live in space.

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What do you tink the grey aliens are? Maybe us in the future. OR maybe I had one to many bonghits haha.

Jerry Garcia said:

So what is it called when you cross a male and female from the same seed stock and produce your own seeds? Like you get a pack of 10 skunk, cross a male with a female and make your own skunk seeds...what is the offspring of that cross called?

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I'm no expert, but my understanding is anytime you cross two different plants and they are not descendent's of each other, they're F-1's, even if their from the same stock. Even if they're brother and sister, although they say it's not good to cross brother and sister but I'm not 100% sure why. I assume it's because all the bad genes will get doubled up.

I've bought people's seeds who did this and they never seem to come out the same as the original seeds. I mean, you can't just grab any male, the top breeders spend a lot of time looking for their champion studs. If you mix the two, you'll get the same genetics, but if the parents are crappy versions, the kids will be crappy versions. If you score a good mom and dad in the same pack, you're probably good. But these offspring will need to be crossed back with the parents, not each other, to progress to F-2, F-3, etc.

If someone knows better please correct me cause I'm trying to figure this out myself.

DumpsterKeeper said:

You're right on that. I've already got a Goo & Mango setup, if I get one male I'm planning on breeding it and calling the winner Mangoo or Man-Goo.

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"Hey, wanna smoke some man-goo" is one of those questions that can go very good or very bad in an instant...

Maximus cannabis said:

"Hey, wanna smoke some man-goo" is one of those questions that can go very good or very bad in an instant...

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Yeah, it's like that strain Cat Piss. Nobody who doesn't know what you're talking about doesn't want to get involved.

And from what I was reading in he link posted earlier, the breeding technique you were talking about is called cubing. Basically the idea I got from the post was:

Find a momma and a poppa (different strains usually), and identify a trait or traits you like in each that you would like to pass on.

Grow the seeds you made and pick out the ones with the traits you wanted and don't breed the ones with traits you didn't want. When the ones you like are ready, breed them with their original parent. Gross to humans, good for buds.

Do the same thing with the next generation. Keep the ones with the traits you're looking for (smell, bushiness/height, nug density/size, etc.) and breed them with their grandma.

Do it one more time. These kids will end up breeding with their great grandmother. I guess you could call your original mom strain a matriarch. It's called cubing because the plant is multiplied to the power of three. Damn nerdy-ass mathboys.

Basically they say that by the third generation you'll get a strain that produces the plants with just a few different phenotypes. Kind of like how a dog can give birth to different colored dogs in one litter but they're still all the same dog. Same goes for bud. A purple strain doesn't always turn purple, it's just a particular phenotype. I suppose if you kept breeding past three you could isolate purple buds, but I'd be afraid of sacrificing other things I wanted.

That's kind of an oversimplification considering I have never bred, just read, but there ya go.

That's my understanding as well from my reading.

Seems simple enough in concept. When I have more room I can work on a true breeding strain, I think I'll just cross once and clone what I like for now.

That's what I'm doing too just for practice.

i don't get why your all upset at riot.. what they do is done a lot in cannabis breeding, who are we kidding here.. dna just put out a strain called headband, and do you really think it has anything to do with loompa's headband or 707? neither do i.. all they are trying to do is put out a seed version of clone only strains so that people who don't have access to clones, can atleast pretend to have something comparable to the clone only strain.. is this really the right thing to do?? its kind of a grey area to me.. and look at how many companies have a white widow strain.. how many of these companies used the same exact parents that shanti did back in the 90's when he first made ww? my guess would be zero.. but they still all have strains named ww.. is this right?? once again, its a grey area.. its just their version of a certain strain..
on one hand its good, cuz imagine if strains got copywrited.. only the original breeder would be allowed to use that strain.. and have access to the name that was copywrited.. it would cut down on all of the other breeders saying that they have a white widow, and they would be forced to call it by another name.. it would all get rather confusing.

People who sell seeds only want yer money so like every other bidness they hype,lie,scam and steal.
You guys act like there's some kinda secret vault open only to those who schill beans on the net.
Guess what.............the same gene pools being used by purty much everybody.
Clone only eh.....................so the cut came from.........................Jesus?
Seriously 90% of the hacks being sold you could do yerself.

True, and if I had a roll of steel I could make my own car, but why when Dodge already makes a Challenger...

Were not saying that these breeders are the only ones who can make these seeds, but to dismiss the work they've done in searching for good genes, crossing it with other good genes and stabilizing through cubing is just redonkulous.

Show me the stable strains.
I have seen very,very few stable lines.
Stable means the plants are consistant with very little variance in phenotype.........in my mind anyhow.

I take steel and make stuff outta it all the time,kinda a hobby of mine.

Unfortunately I have to rely on breeders at this time. I occasionally receive seeds as a gift from trusted friends who know of my hobby, but I'm willing to pay for a seed that has the genes I'm looking for. There are certain traits I want to have right off the bat (e.g. shorter stature, quicker flowering time) and I've had some bad luck with bagseeds that just weren't what I needed in my home. I've lucked out with two good looking bagseeds, but I can't afford a separate room to keep a mother plant going for infinite clones at this time.

I understand people's frustration with the commercialization of the cannabis culture, and I would never discourage anyone to just use bagseeds, nor would I push the idea of buying breeder seeds on to anyone. What I'm saying is I'm wiling to pay for genetics, but if I'm going to spend money I'd like to know exactly what I'm getting.