Coots Mix Advice for new living soil grower

There’s a really good interview on future cannabis project with Glenn Rabenberg, loads of really good information and coot pops up about an hour in and talks about his methods.

Definitely worth a listen and Glenn is a no bullshit legend.

Peace.

Sorry dude don’t know how to add a link

Man that video was incredible!! Thats the most informative video I've watched pertaining to growing in general. Glen really breaks everything down and explains how everything works together. Was awesome having Jim there as well, he explained a lot of his philosophies, and sounds like he learned a few things from Glen as well.

I'm pretty interested in the sulfers and sulfates that Glen talked about, sound pretty important. Also the foliar sprays that they followed using dye down through the roots to the rhizosphere, pretty amazing. Thanks again for the suggestion, I think Im gonna watch it again.

Thanks for that video recommendation. I'm going to search it out. I'm a big fan of liquid fish too. The makers of Tribus microbes just added grow and bloom versions of liquid fish for sale so I picked up a gallon of each. The price was comparable to what I normally get and I needed some anyway, so I tried it. I use Coot s mix with malted barley and kelp meal teas, but I buy worm castings instead of having a worm farm. I mix in some really nice compost too. The new fish stuff I hope helps even more.

GrassBurner said:

Sounds like we're on the same page, im still wet behind the ears, you're probably further along the page than me I believe he said he got the mix from Cornell maybe? I think he tweeked it a little, but haven't really done more than a quick Google search on the subject.
What goes into your soil mix? I always like hearing what others use, never hurts to have a little more knowledge. I guess that's one good thing about us tokers, we burn enough brain cells that we get to learn things 2 or 3 times

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I would answer, the best I can, by saying university extensions have taught and understood not only soil design but everything about horticulture for decades. Farming sciences are quite advanced too.

While cannabis is currently a high cash value crop due to legal issues and regulation, its far from the most valuable crop in the world.
So this is just to say that Coots is a great starting point. He says in his blog he started this about 10 years ago, after doing other horticultural work.

He is a good teacher, and that counts for a lot. However, I am only saying this...not to dis Coots, just to help guide towards a broader set of guidelines than just him.

I would take a half dozen of the advanced growers here, and their opinions over Coots. They have more experience and are not "guessing" at what works, or guessing at why. Many have actual degrees in these sciences. They dont always speak up, because they get annoyed trying to correct what is often called "broscience".

Again, his mix is excellent, no issues. Mine is similar -- because a good mix uses a similar 1/3 1/3 1/3 mix of some sort. That concept, how to build it, is a much more generalized how to build a quality soil exercise than the "optimum soil".

My best advice is do not overcomplicate it. What goes into the compost portion of the mix IS critical, but not the exact mix. Quality is the key. Really high quality worm castings, for instance, are more valuable than whether or not you added alfalfa or what form of neem meal is chosen.

I would suggest doing a little more research on Coots, he's definitely not guessing. There is a reason his mix is all over the internet. Glen Rabenburg himself compliments Coots on his knowledge and practices. Here is the video referenced earlier. If you watch this and still think Coots is a coot, I won't be mad at ya.

Glen / Coots Discussion

GrassBurner said:

I would suggest doing a little more research on Coots, he's definitely not guessing. There is a reason his mix is all over the internet. Glen Rabenburg himself compliments Coots on his knowledge and practices. Here is the video referenced earlier. If you watch this and still think Coots is a coot, I won't be mad at ya.

Glen / Coots Discussion

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I've seen that video. I don't think there's anything wrong at all with his soil mix. His base mix pretty standard and very similar to my own. It's when he talks about soil biology I start to cringe. Like him going on and on about PSI (bearing capacity) of sand as the reason it doesn't hold nutrients. He's not a stupid guy for sure, but he's not a soil biologist. It's pretty much how I feel about Jeff Lowenfels too, another obviously smart guy who attempts biology, but gets it wrong too often in end. Organic no-till is probably the simplest method of growing in the world (forests and prarie do it by themselves), but I'm always curious as to what actually goes on, and the why's behind why it works. It gives me a bit more confidence that I'm on the right track.

There are thousands of great soil biology and general soil science talks and lectures available on YouTube, from fairly advanced to those made for anyone. One of my favorites that covers nearly everything about soil biology targeted to non-scientists is Dr. Christine Jones' talk as the key speaker of the annual Soil Health Conference that was held in South Dakota this year:

I especially enjoyed how she introduced the subjects of quorum sensing and autoinducers, especially because of its role in the evolution of multi-cellular organisms, including us. And it explains how soil bacteria are like chameleons and communicate with each other to switch their genes on or off in response to feed plants and get sugary rewards. It's amazing to me.

Thanks for the video link, gonna check it out right now! Soil is definitely much more interesting and incredible than I ever imagined. Ive always been an outdoors person, but other than planting tomatoes or peppers, I never really got too in depth in it.

Whats the recipe for the mix you're running? Im guessing geographic location plays a part in making everyone's mix a little different, but Its interesting to see the different approaches people take.

To be fair, Coots actually refutes the notion of calling it "Coot's Mix" and he gives credit where credit is due.

"Coot's Mix" is actually Cornell University's soil mix, if you do a google search for "Cornell University soil mix" you'll find articles that are decades old about the mix in question.

The bulk of the soil mix/research in question was in fact done by Cornell U (CU from hereon out), but Coot's goes crazy with his EWC and this is something that even CU did not do.

Coots definitely gets frustrated with broscience and people asking the same questions without doing their own due diligence, but he also doesn't have the attitude "The Rev" does. Coots is a pretty humble guy overall, and pretty patient considering how many times he answers basic questions over and over again.

While his mix is in fact someone else's recipe, his compost (EWC more specifically) is on another level and is the sole reason for his results.



Soil is definitely a science, and it's no joke. One can take years worth of classes just on soil compaction alone. And the microbiology within a soil is akin to that of the ocean, in the sense that we've only just barely scratched the surface.

While there's been a lot of advancements made in the field, to say that we even know 5% of everything concerning soil structure, compaction, microbiology, reactions, etc. is a huge stretch.

This is why one must always be learning.

One doesn't become a failure when they get subpar results.

One becomes a failure when they think they know everything. When you think you know everything, you don't think you have to learn anymore. And if you're not learning anymore.. what are you doing?



I'm a butcher by trade, the guy that taught me was a very ornery 82 year old man that didn't take shit from anybody. In fact, he was pissed off about the fact that he had to teach me in the first place. I actually got the guy to crack a smile when I expressed how excited I was to learn, and how grateful I was for the opportunity.

This guy (nearly 85 years old now and still breaking down wild game to this day) told me something that I will never forget.

"You never know what other people can teach you, and you should always keep an open mind. Who knows, you very well could end up teaching me something."

How could a guy in his 30s possibly teach someone in their 80s something? Especially since this guy has been a professional for over 50 years, longer than my own father has been alive in fact.

Finally it hit me, that's why this guy is as amazing as he is. Even at 82 years old, dude was working harder than anyone I've seen work even to this day. Carrying around weight like a beast, making me look like a bitch. I suddenly had ZERO excuses when working alongside someone like that.

It was one of the most eye opening experiences of my life, and still is.

This guy managed to condense 50+ years worth of experience into a single year when he trained me.. but the fact that he was still learning from others at his age is what I will never forget. The humility and skill this man had is unlike anything I've ever seen in my life.

When you think you are the best is when you become the worst. What's the expression? Pride commeth before the fall?

Why I love forums like this. I've been growing for over 12 years now, and I make every effort that I can to condense that 12 years of knowledge when I teach others.

The sooner I teach someone everything I know, the sooner that same person can then teach me.

That's always been my train of thought, you never know where a good idea is gonna come from. The day you stop learning is the day you stop growing, figuratively of course

GrassBurner said:

That's always been my train of thought, you never know where a good idea is gonna come from. The day you stop learning is the day you stop growing, figuratively of course

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Very true. And if you can't find a teacher, then you can always go to ResearchGate or Google Scholar as a last resort.

Sweet gig Kratos!! Sounds like you had a great teacher. I love working around people like that, really brings the best out in everyone around. Ive had a lot of jobs and learned many different trades, but I've never butchered. Definitely something useful to know!
Pretty amazing times we live in to have so much information available, and people willing to share it. The ones that did this back in the 60's and 70's are the real heros

GrassBurner said:

Sweet gig Kratos!! Sounds like you had a great teacher. I love working around people like that, really brings the best out in everyone around. Ive had a lot of jobs and learned many different trades, but I've never butchered. Definitely something useful to know!
Pretty amazing times we live in to have so much information available, and people willing to share it. The ones that did this back in the 60's and 70's are the real heros

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Think of the native peoples in each continent that cultivated for thousands of years what we now call landrace strains.

ComfortCreator said:

Think of the native peoples in each continent that cultivated for thousands of years what we now call landrace strains.

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No joke, the world sure could use their wisdom today

Great video @Northwood Very interesting stuff. Id like to know more about the microbes she talked about being released at germination, and how they go back into the plant. In the video with Glen Rabenburg, he talked about the importance of getting carbon back into the soil. She talks about cover crops during vegetative state putting lots of carbon back into the soil. I just started planting cover crops in my pots, glad I did. So much good information in this thread, thanks for all the information!

GrassBurner said:

In the video with Glen Rabenburg, he talked about the importance of getting carbon back into the soil

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I would say increasing carbon content in soil is critical goal for modern agriculture in order to repair the loss of tilth and CEC caused by decades of tillage and mismanagement. The easiest way to do this IMO is just to constantly grow plants and quit digging and turning the soil over. A plant dedicates a lot of photosynthetic energy just to make sugar that leaks from its roots (exudates). Up to 40% of photosynthetically fixed carbon the plant creates is dedicated to root exudation, while the other 60% is used to build biomass (roots, leaves, buds) and to sustain metabolism and keep itself alive. So much, if not most of the carbon in your soil doesn't really come from dead plant material at all but instead by just having plants living in it.

The fact that green plants evolved to spend so much of their energy creating food for bacteria and fungi shows how important this function is (in soil of course).

Oyster Shell and Perlite showed up. Added 1 cu ft of perlite to the mix, and brought the oyster shell to the recommended 1 cup per cu ft. I reckon its ready for another test. Ive got some seedlings that just popped a few days ago. Theyre in a 50/50 miracle gro organic and perlite mix in little 1 quart pots right now. Once they're ready to be transplanted into a bigger pot in a week or 2 ill give it a go

GrassBurner said:

Theyre in a 50/50 miracle gro organic {...}

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I still can't convince myself to use Miracle-Gro after they killed all those birds. The corporately run world may not be as utopian as what some demographics may think

Lol, if I had any other options I would have used something else. My soil mix wasn't quite right and needed to find something local asap. They'll get transplanted into my mix before switching to flower when I put them in their final pot

Hopefully going to start using some of this coots mix soon. I topped my mainlined plants for the last time this weekend, and once they recover im gonna transplant them into their final 10 gallon fabric pots.
Tested the soil today to get an idea of where its at. Here are the results for NPK.


In the video @Northwood shared, the speaker talked about how a soil test without a tissue test of a plant growing in that soil can be misleading. I believe she was saying that once microbes convert nitrogen for example, the food it is converted to won't show up in a soil test? So in reality when there is plenty of nitrogen in the soil, in plant available form, you could be misled to believe you have a nitrogen deficiency by a soil test alone.
My soil has been complete now for about a week. Temps have been mid to upper 70s outside during the day, 60s at night.
Are my test results indicating a lack of initial inputs, the activity of microbes in the soil, or a lack of time for nutrients to be converted? Sorry if this is a silly question. Anyone else using coots mix test your soil before using?
Ive got some seedlings that will be transplanted soon also. Would you plant them into this soil and see how they react, or attempt to bring these nutrient levels up with ammendments before planting? Thanks for all the help!

GrassBurner said:

Tested the soil today to get an idea of where its at. Here are the results for NPK.

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I have no idea what those results are, how accurate that is, or how to interpret them. What amendments did you decide to add to the coots base mix? Keep in mind that depending what the amendments were, they will not show up even on a "basic" laboratory analysis until microorganisms mineralize the elements bound to those complex organic molecules. Most basic tests only measure soluble nutrients, along with CEC, pH, buffer pH, and organic matter. Most basic tests will not include nitrogen though because it's more difficult.

You would need a more advanced laboratory soil analysis, and that costs us here an extra $20 to $30 Canadian a sample. For example, these usually measure useful things like phosphorous saturation which I recommend because it's so damn easy to overdo the P, especially if your amendments contain any kind of animal manures. Then there are extra options you can add on to this like the SLAN test to measure organic nitrogen mineralization potential. For a more accurate estimate, testing labs might recommend a CO2 burst test to measure microbial activity in your soil, but they can't predict the future of your soil and losses that occur during the mineralization process.

So to sum up, I'm sorry to say testing NPK at this stage with a basic laboratory test is pretty close to being useless, and even more so for home tests where accuracy and interpretation could be an issue.