Connection between 24hr lights & males

it depends what you want, if you want healthy strong looking plants, go with the 18/6 (dont think that a 16/8 would be in anyway beneficial) if you want to grow your plants like a m****r f****r, 24 it!!As long as you keep your conditions optimal, you wont have any real problems, maybe a twisted leaf here and there. The point is, stressed plants produce bigger weights, fact. you've just gotta be on the ball mate,

imo sex is determined upon polinaton ( x y cromosomes sp? ) if sex was determined after planting there would be no such thing as a feminised seed .allso if sex was determined after planting it would mean a crap survival rate for the plant as if the conditions around the plant suited males then all the seeds dropped there would turn out male ?
ive read lots of different opinions on this and from what i have read im still convinced you can not change the sex of a seed .

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

imo sex is determined upon polinaton ( x y cromosomes sp? ) if sex was determined after planting there would be no such thing as a feminised seed .allso if sex was determined after planting it would mean a crap survival rate for the plant as if the conditions around the plant suited males then all the seeds dropped there would turn out male ?
ive read lots of different opinions on this and from what i have read im still convinced you can not change the sex of a seed .

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that has is not wrong dude but regard the fact that even with animals environmental factors can determine the sex, like temperature with alligator eggs. there are hundreds of examples for that in nature.

green_nobody said:

that has is not wrong dude but regard the fact that even with animals environmental factors can determine the sex, like temperature with alligator eggs. there are hundreds of examples for that in nature.

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Yet if temp' were a factor in fem-male ratio's more evidence of this would have been witnessed by now. Seeds that have been kept in a cupboard will still produce the same ratio as seeds that have been frozen.

The mother's environment has to be the underlying factor. How quickly she is pollinated could have something to do with the amount of males produced. If it takes a long time she may produce more males.

skunkushybrid said:

Yet if temp' were a factor in fem-male ratio's more evidence of this would have been witnessed by now. Seeds that have been kept in a cupboard will still produce the same ratio as seeds that have been frozen.

The mother's environment has to be the underlying factor. How quickly she is pollinated could have something to do with the amount of males produced. If it takes a long time she may produce more males.

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hey, it is not about the environment before germination, its about post germination we are fuzzing about and since there are substances for example that can switch a single branch of a female plant to male, ask fdd for this one, i guess there are ways to mess a seedling that badly up that a dude switches to be a girl

Perhaps your not well read? Here try this as an example, I still feel that dutch passion seed company would qualify as an expert in the field, wouldn't you?
Peace

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:

ive read lots of different opinions on this and from what i have read im still convinced you can not change the sex of a seed .

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Im not sure if this is correct however i dont believe that seeds have predetermined sex, i think enviromental factors decide the sexing after the plant has begun the germinating process. It is easy to see why people would think of plants sex as being predetermined because humans have predetermined sex and we base our opinions on what we relate to in life (hopefully not to many people relate to plants).

purplegorillas said:

Im not sure if this is correct however i dont believe that seeds have predetermined sex, i think enviromental factors decide the sexing after the plant has begun the germinating process. It is easy to see why people would think of plants sex as being predetermined because humans have predetermined sex and we base our opinions on what we relate to in life (hopefully not to many people relate to plants).

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actually some scientific bigheads say that this isn't to sure really they supposingly found factors that can decide with which sex a fetus can end up regardless of which genetic determination it was before, spooky i know but it would answer why some people just fell wrong in their sex

green_nobody said:

hey, it is not about the environment before germination, its about post germination we are fuzzing about and since there are substances for example that can switch a single branch of a female plant to male, ask fdd for this one, i guess there are ways to mess a seedling that badly up that a dude switches to be a girl

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yeah, I know. I'm still saying that it can't be done, that the sex of the seed is genetically programmed. Even if it could be done, what would be the point. A female that should have been a male will not turn out to be a very good plant.

videoman, dutch passion are using hermaphrodites to produce female seeds. Am I missing something?

Yes you are. Skunky, dutch passion seed company is telling you that they've done some research into this subject, and than they go on to say that you can manipuate the odds of how many females you get by controlling the environment:

"From literature and our own findings it appears that the growth of a male or female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors."

They than go on to tell you how to do it:

The environmental factors that influence gender are:

• a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females
• a higher potassium concentration will give more males
• a higher humidity will give more females
• a lower temperature will give more females
• more blue light will give more females
• fewer hours of light will give more females

Than they tell you when to do it:
It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.


Peace

skunkushybrid said:

videoman, dutch passion are using hermaphrodites to produce female seeds. Am I missing something?

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So dutch passion were experimenting on male to female ratios with feminised seeds. I honestly fail to see your point videoman.

double post, sorry

Yes you are missing something skunk. Dutch passion, being a seed company is telling us they've done some research into this subject. They go onto to say that you can easilyy tilt the odds into your favor in producing females by controlling the environment they are grown in.......

"From literature and our own findings it appears that the growth of a male or female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors."

They even go on to tell you what these factors are:

The environmental factors that influence gender are:
a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females
a higher potassium concentration will give more males
a higher humidity will give more females
a lower temperature will give more females
more blue light will give more females
fewer hours of light will give more females

Than the even go so far as to tell you when to do these changes too:
It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.


Peace

Changes with feminised seeds. Environmental changes with feminised seeds will lead to higher ratios of females.

I must be reading something different, although in the link you provided they are talking about feminised seeds and how to obtain a higher ratio of females by changing environmental conditions.

Yeah that article is confusing, so I can understand your confusion...Let me explain it this way: While the article talks about femenized seeds, it goes one step further, after discussing femenized seeds, it talks about regualr seeds, not just femenized seeds. "it appears that the growth of a male or female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors"

(please note they have stopped using the word femenized now)


From literature and our own findings it appears that the growth of a male or female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors. The environmental factors that influence gender are:

• a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
• a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
• a higher humidity will give more females.
• a lower temperature will give more females.
• more blue light will give more females.
• Fewer hours of light will give more females.

It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.

While we could argue this point all night long, at this point if your still confused, I've found dutch passion to be a decent company, perhaps you should write to them?

Peace

videoman it appears that it is you with the confusion. I have reread your link yet again and just because it doesn't mention feminised in that paragraph it does in the next and the one before it.

In the next paragraph it goes on to tell you how they raised the hermaphrodites from normal female clones to produce the seeds they were going to test.

they are talking about feminised seeds. If they were talking about normal seeds i'm sure they would have made the definition rather than merely omitting the word feminised.

Obviously we can argue back and fourth all night. I do not believe it is me that is confused skunk really, although, the easy way for you to understand would be as I said earlier, write to dutch passion seed company
Peace

skunkushybrid said:

videoman it appears that it is you with the confusion. I have reread your link yet again and just because it doesn't mention feminised in that paragraph it does in the next and the one before it.

In the next paragraph it goes on to tell you how they raised the hermaphrodites from normal female clones to produce the seeds they were going to test.

they are talking about feminised seeds. If they were talking about normal seeds i'm sure they would have made the definition rather than merely omitting the word feminised.

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skunkushybrid said:

yeah, I know. I'm still saying that it can't be done, that the sex of the seed is genetically programmed. Even if it could be done, what would be the point. A female that should have been a male will not turn out to be a very good plant.

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I used to think this myself, but decided to do some research to better understand what factors were in play and this is what I found -

You're right in the sense that the plants sex is determined at fertilisation - it takes 10 of the chromosome pairs from the father and 10 from the mother and the seed can be either a genetic female, male or hermaphrodite. So the seeds sex is set at fertilsation and as soon as the seed is germinated that genetic program starts.

The seed starts out at its pre-determined sex, but environmental factors now come into play which will determine whether the seedling continues on its set genetic program or deviates from it depending on the amount of stress and unfavourable conditions the environment may impart. What actually happens is, the plant can 'reverse its sex' either fully or in part depending on the severity of the stress and environmental factors. A full sex reversal simply means the plant changes sex entirely either from female to male or male to female depending on the environmental factors. Partial sex reversal are basically hermaphrodites.

It's important to differentiate between genetic hermaphrodites, which receive the gene/chromosome responsible for hermaphroditism and partial sex reversal hermaphrodites that become that way through environmental factors.

This is why people tend to report a far higher percentage of hermaphrodites from feminised seeds than people growing from standard non-feminsed seeds, as the former will usually be genetic hermaphrodites and the latter environmentally influenced ones. Genetic hermaphrodites don't receive the male gene or chromosome - because the father is a hermaphrodite it either receives the female gene/chromosome or the hermaphrodite one.

Robert Connell Clarkes Marijuna Botany is an interesting read on this subject.

ok, it's the fully part i'm interested in. You seem to glance over this part and concentrate on hermies which i already know about. I've never heard of a full sex reversal, are there examples?

all very intereesting ...im keeping an open mind on this one .

one question i do have (not sure if its been raised ) how come ive grown a pack of fem seeds all in the exact same conditions but only had one hermie ,why did nt they all turn hermie as they were all growing in the same enviroment ?